Club Obi Wan

For those interested, here are some pics of a screen used shirt from Raiders.







Kyle

Looks like my first generation Todds shirt! He wasn't far off with his 1st shirts. Glad I got two!

Great find, Kyle!

More about it here:

http://www.thepropgallery.com/raiders-o ... ord-shirt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The first gen Todds were a thick, yellow, waffle patterned and flannelly.

This shirt just shows how great the NH ones are.

yeah, I agree on the NH shirts! Got to get me one of those!!

It also cofirmes that all shirts had somewhat darker buttons.

If I had to guess, the defect that the article didn't elaborate on is the uneven pockets.

Anyone know off the top of their head what Raiders scene clearly shows the discrepancy?

Looks far more tan than the stone color currently in vogue...

Rockin' find!!! Where is this shirt?

Just based on their contact information, I'd say in England.

Regard! Michaelson

Just wondering if anyone could check it out in person - all the colors of the shirts made here by members and such are already great. But just to check on it in person would be a hoot.

What do you guys think the "defect in construction" is? Man, that shirt looks dark. how is it that the shirt "in person" is so much darker than on screen, but the jacket "in person" is lighter than it is on screen?

darthjones wrote:But just to check on it in person would be a hoot.

Yeah...in bright sunlight, under a jacket, next to a pair of pants, hanging next to every Raiders shirt replica ever made...

Baldwyn wrote:What do you guys think the "defect in construction" is?

See my earlier post - the pockets clearly aren't aligned.

Baldwyn wrote:Man, that shirt looks dark. how is it that the shirt "in person" is so much darker than on screen, but the jacket "in person" is lighter than it is on screen?

Lighting and filters. You can see similar color differences under different lighting on most commercially available replicas too.

Cajunkraut wrote:See my earlier post - the pockets clearly aren't aligned.

It could just be sitting crooked on the mannequin. Looks like the right epaulette is further back on the shoulder than the left.

Indy Magnoli wrote:

Cajunkraut wrote:See my earlier post - the pockets clearly aren't aligned.

It could just be sitting crooked on the mannequin. Looks like the right epaulette is further back on the shoulder than the left.

...Also because it may be crooked on the mannequin?

Maybe the mannequin is crooked...when left to their own devices, mannequins can be quite nefarious.

Remember gents, a lot of the current color is due to decades of poor storage. Looking at it now probably won't be a great indication of what it looked like then, even in person.


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Yeah, you're right Chris. What I find odd is how many people (including myself) thought it was white originally back in '81

ChrisMD wrote:...Remember gents, a lot of the current color is due to decades of poor storage. Looking at it now probably won't be a great indication of what it looked like then, even in person.

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I'll agree on age changing the appearance of things, but will disagree on current color assumptions.

Working in the post production film industry (and being a photographer)
any colors seen on screen cannot be judged as original material color.
The final screen look will always be affected by any and all of the following:
- Film stock was used
- Filtering on camera lens
- Post production color correction

Color Grading/Correction is a huge business, and a true art form.
And with the dawn of digital cameras, color correction has gathered some very powerful allies.

I was reading an interview with the DP of Birdman a while back, he was stating that when they were shooting some of the pickup scenes, it was easier to shoot them as is and color correct in post, digitally matching them to the rest of the movie.

I've being playing around with these guys lately
http://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/products/ba ... iew_bl.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and what I can do with a few clicks is amazing.

And to address the original discussion... the shirt was much darker than we all think!

It seems like all the promotional shots and behind the scenes shots showed a lighter shirt, and I'm not sure how much post processing those items get. I wonder how much of this is related to being photographed on a dark background and the whole phenomenon with the "what color is the dress" event that was everywhere a few months ago...

JohnnyD97 wrote:I wonder how much of this is related to being photographed on a dark background and the whole phenomenon with the "what color is the dress" event that was everywhere a few months ago...

Agreed. As posted earlier, lighting alone makes a huge difference, as we've seen in our very own gear photos. The shirt's perceived color is particularly subject to this dynamic.

Check out the shirt cloth swatch on page 138 of The Complete Making of Indiana Jones book! It's much darker than the shirts Indy wore on-screen and the Noel Howard originals. Then again (as mentioned above), the samples might not have been archived in the best conditions, hence the darkening of the fabric.

You can really see the pen pocket on the left, breast pocket in that shot!

That shirt looks way to dark to me, maybe a Temple or LC shirt. I understand how there are techniques used during filming and production but you can't make a shirt that dark look that light during production I don't care what filters are used unless this is a shirt that was made for Ford but not used then that would make sense. Now I've seen Noel Howard's (MBA Costumes the original makers of the shirts for the first 3 movies) Raiders shirts come out dark like this but it was about the actual material which, as described to me by Mr. Howard before his passing 12 years ago, as being quite light/delicate but the color you know memory goes with time. The only difference I notice from my favorite shirt that I've began to see in Raiders is the buttons are actually darker than what I have but mine's pretty passable. In Temple and LC the shirts and buttons are darker.

Don't know why people are so surprised about it being darker. I allways thought it was darker then what we see on screen! Most of the time the shirt in raiders is caught in direct sunlight or artificial light. Of course it makes it look lighter.

The original above is photographed in a darker room with not much light. If you look at the shirt on screen when it is caught in shadows you can see it is similiar to the color. I'd say, heck yes this is the original color. Stage lights, filters and sun makes colors look way different.

What we see in the photos is not an accurate representation of what the original color was. The color we see is influenced by not only the lighting where the photos were taken but also by age. The cotton fibers have most certainly changed color over the years turning more yellow over time with oxidation. The camera that was used and our computer screen settings will also change what we see. The pictures are great to see details that we can't make out by watching the movie but not much use in determining what the original color of the fabric was.

These pictures may be helpful with regards to the button details, one thing I've noticed all of our shirt makers seem not to have gotten right. I believe the shirts had light olive drab buttons and the buttons on the shirt in the photos appear to be that way. Other details to notice are the size and style of the buttons.

Indy Magnoli wrote:

Cajunkraut wrote:See my earlier post - the pockets clearly aren't aligned.

It could just be sitting crooked on the mannequin. Looks like the right epaulette is further back on the shoulder than the left.

Agreed. Also note the two open buttons don't line up with button holes ! W>

You really can't use screen grabs or something that is old and distressed. It isn't reliable when coming to the color of any item.

I don't think the seemingly darker color is due to aging. If you look at the LC scenes filmed inside the studio, they too were a lighter shade of taupe. Take a look at the Katanga's cabin shot: http://indygear.com/igshirt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think part of the stone look in Raiders had to do with the scene being shot outside in full sunlight. NH did a great job with matching the color. Epaulets ended about an inch past the stripe, and stripes were about 1 1/4" wide. Pockets were about the span of a button and a half long, etc.

Man with the Hat, whose shirts are those in your pics ?? they look great !!

micsteam wrote:Man with the Hat, whose shirts are those in your pics ?? they look great !!

AB

Those are Adventurebilts. I swapped out the buttons on the shirt with some greenish colored buttons that I thought looked more screen used. I had a NH shirt but the color never looked right to me. Nice shirt but it was too yellow. The real one used in the film may have been a darker tan or khaki like the pictures up top but there are so many scenes where the shirt looks more stone colored like the AB's, it's the one I have on my mannequin now. Cotton fabric can discolor with age so I still doubt that what we are looking at above is a true representation of the original color.

knibs, or if anyone has seen the display, did you happen to notice what color the buttons were? Its either a shade of olive, gray or taupe, not sure?

Has anyone noticed that the fabric doesn't seem to be the same as the NH/MBA?

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Pardon the ignorance.
Has any of the current shirt offerings matched the fabric of the original exactly?

afalzon wrote:Pardon the ignorance.
Has any of the current shirt offerings matched the fabric of the original exactly?

I think it's been generally accepted that NH used the same fabric as the originals

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I think he was asking if any of the current vendors who sell shirt replicas have the exact same fabric as the NH shirts. If that is the question, then the answer is NO. The closest fabric out there to the original NH shirt is from Azuma

I was just about post a link to this shirt when I saw this. I had never heard of this company in regards to IndyGear (or anything else for that matter). I was always under the mistaking impression that Noel Howard made the shirts for the movie. When I saw this link I immediately went to IndyGear.com to cross reference my assumption. Looks like we might need an update

Hi, I saw this shirt yesterday in person! It's the same fabric as the Noel Howard that I own or it seams very similar and thin like my shirt, but the color was lighter more similar to my Wested shirt. My Noel Howard shirt is almost pink in comparison not sure why the color was not the same? Also the Raiders shirt had a Westen Costume tag in the inside.

I saw the LC HJ lid also!

Almost all the Raiders clothing went back to Western Costume after production, with the exception of the few items that went back to the LFL archives, so that's why you saw that tag.

Regard! Michaelson

Profiles in History had a recent auction that included the Raiders shirt. The description says that it was a size 34 sleeve and 16 collar.

The Man with the Hat wrote:Profiles in History had a recent auction that included the Raiders shirt. The description says that it was a size 34 sleeve and 16 collar.

Wow! This certainly looks in my price league ....well, perhaps not. Good find here. I sure would like to see it -- buy it, not. W>

The shirt sold in Profile auction was actually the same shirt sold on ebay more than a decade ago, and the price wasn't this crazy. I think I still have the photo of that shirt when it was on ebay in one of my old drives.

Azuma

I am so confused anymore. I've been here since 2002 and I have spent thousands of dollars. Every time I look at my Indy gear I feel like starting over! It all comes down to color these days. I literally have three of everything, or more.

I just paid out the nose for a NH and I have three different Todd's, and I don't like any of them, now I see an AB shirt with awesome buttons and I want to try that! Help me dear god!

I agree. t's all about the colors. I recently customized my AB to shirt. It had smaller epualettes so obviously I made it into a LC shirt with the darker buttons.. and let me just say, it looks like I took it from Fords back. It's too awesome

As with most of the gear in this hobby, you're chasing a ghost. No matter how screen-accurate it looks, it will never be exactly what we see in the movies. We've all spent obscene amounts of money here. At the end of the day, you just have to decide what looks good enough for you, and live with it.

Is it even possible to purchase a AB shirt?
I have one and would like to go up a size.

Croft

Indiana Croft wrote:Is it even possible to purchase a AB shirt?

Someone fairly recently mentioned a new AB shirt run, but I'm waiting on an email reply from Marc to confirm. Stand by.

Croft

Not sure about you guys but I have more than one shirt, pair of trousers and yes, Jackets..

Jones' shirts get torn and frighteningly dirty and then they amazingly repair and launder themselves so we are either dealing with some incredible 1940's technology that we have somehow forgotten (probably Howard Stark's) or our hero has a few changes of clothing and the items are also probably not all the same age either...