The Movie Shop

NamedAfterTheDog · Post by **NamedAfterTheDog** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:24 pm

Hello, this is my first post!

Wondering if anyone has seen or purchased one of these fairly inexpensive Indy-style fedoras from an online store called the movie shop?
http://www.themovieshop.com/Adventurer- ... Movie-Hat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
From the pictures, it looks pretty good. Any thoughts?

Thanks

baddates1 · Post by **baddates1** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:30 pm

Just my 2 cents: If your looking for an Indy hat, a wool fairly cheap hat isn't the best option. I'd stay away from that because it looks quite off and the fact it is wool is a good enough sign for me to stay away from it, due to quality and feel. If you want a little bit expensive and more faithful to an Indiana Jones hat, you could try Christies Raiders or other hats they have.

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:30 pm

NamedAfterTheDog wrote:Hello, this is my first post!

Wondering if anyone has seen or purchased one of these fairly inexpensive Indy-style fedoras from an online store called the movie shop?
http://www.themovieshop.com/Adventurer- ... Movie-Hat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
From the pictures, it looks pretty good. Any thoughts?

Thanks

The answer to the first question is no, I have neither seen nor purchased one of those.

That said, you asked for thoughts -

My first thought is you can seldom trust or rely on photographs of items that seem to be "inexpensive" to accurately portray what you will receive if you buy. Many online sellers steal images from other websites that portray much more costly items and post them on their site, then deliver something different.

In this case the Terms and Conditions on the website say:

5 Disclaimer of warranties
The services and all information, products and other content included in or accessible from this web site and the linked sites, are provided on an "as is" and "as available" basis and are subject to change at any time without notice to you. To the fullest extent permitted by law, The Movie Shop disclaims and excludes all representations and warranties (express, implied and statutory, including but without limitation the warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose, and non-infringement of proprietary rights) as to the services and all information, products and content included in and accessible from this web site or the linked sites.

and

7 Variation of content
The Movie Shop shall have the right in its absolute discretion at any time and without notice to amend, remove or vary any of the content supplied in connection with the Service or which appears on any page of the The Movie Shop Web site.

In plain English that means you cannot rely on the photographs on their site, and they can change whatever they want, whenever they want and however they want and you can't complain. They could ship you a pink and purple polka dotted straw boater and your only recourse would be to return the item (at your expense) and hope they refunded your money.

A subthought is in their FAQ section they answer the question whether you can get other pictures by saying "All item images have been put online, we never hold back on extra images." Translated - they don't actually have the items on a shelf - they are fulfilling orders from elsewhere.

My second thought is a combination of "you get what you pay for," "there's no such thing as a free lunch" and "if it seems too good to be true - it probably isn't true."

You are being asked to pay $49.00 for a wool felt Indy hat. That price is in the retail range for a wool felt "licensed" Indy fedora from Dorfman Pacific. Assuming you don't simply receive one of those, or something equally tragic, you're going to receive a wool felt hat. Wool shrinks.

If it get's rained on - it shrinks. If you sweat in it - it shrinks. If you expose it to humidity - it shrinks. If it just sits around and does nothing - it shrinks. And it can't be reblocked or restored, and even if it could, the cost of a reblock is way more than $49.00.

My third thought, based on the second one, is you'll probably be excited when you order and bitterly disappointed when you receive the hat. In all likelihood it won't look or feel anything like you expect, and at that point you'll think about sending it back. At which point you'll discover that you have 14 days to do so - returns are at your expense - you can't return it if the package was opened. (Which is how you figured out you didn't like it.) and refunds are at their discretion, "if the returned product meets their standards." You will also discovery that you are not sending the return to a street address, and in fact the only PO box they provide is for use by UK residents.

My fourth and final thought is "buy once - cry once." Unless you only want the thing to wear once for Halloween, or to hang up as a display piece and hope that no-one who actually knows anything about hats in general or Indy fedoras in particular ever sees it, is you can save up 2 1/2 times the cost of this hat and buy a Federation IV, or 3 1/2 to 4 times and order a custom rabbit fedora from Northwest Hats or Garrison. In the latter case you'll have a custom made high quality hat, for a reasonable price, that won't shrink if a drop of rain hits it, and can be reblocked and rebuilt several times.

It may seem like a lot of money, but if you want a hat to wear, you'll thank yourself in the end for spending a bit more up front and not going through the anguish of trying to return a disappointment.

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:13 pm

I agree 100% with ridgerunner. My first Indy hat was like this and it wa a bitter dissapointment.

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:29 am

I have a The Movie Shop and they are decent for the price.

If you plan is to only wear it a couple times a year as a costume piece or keep it on a static display, it's a great value.

If you want it for daily wear, I agree with what's already been posted and you are far better off saving up and getting a non-wool hat.

I'll get some pictures of mine and post them so you can see one 'in the wild'.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:29 am

On the left. DP wool crushable hat. $50
On the right AB beaver. Priceless

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:01 am

The Movie Shop hat is heads and shoulders better than the DP.

The pictures on the website are actually an accurate description of what the hat is.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:10 am

Right, I was just showing the nature of a hat made with 100% wool and 100% fur felt. That DP was never in the rain. My AB has had numerous soakings.

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:02 am

I am happy to be corrected on my comments with regard to the untrustworthiness of photos - with the caveat that they DO have the right to change things, including suppliers, at any time. In looking at the website the hat depicted looked more like rabbit fur than wool to me, and the bow looked too well done for a $50 hat. If they actually look like that, then I would certainly qualify my first thought.

The photograph above says more about the differences between an inexpensive factory hat and a quality custom than I can in words.

My only other comment is if you've ever handled both a quality beaver felt and a wool felt fedora you'll never own the cheaper version. It's basically the difference between silk and 80 grit sandpaper.

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:07 am

Yeah, and now I a having a hard tome wrapping my head around getting a rabbit felt after owning a beaver.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:48 am

Those photos are not of a wool hat.

shade88 · Post by **shade88** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:37 am

Jeremiah wrote:Yeah, and now I a having a hard tome wrapping my head around getting a rabbit felt after owning a beaver.

Before John announced the ABL, I would've probably agreed.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:47 am

Is it me or does those photos look like the shots of the Christy's hat?

erikgunnlugson · Post by **erikgunnlugson** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:29 pm

They have just taken new pictures of their fur felt fedora and are using it for their wool version.

http://www.themovieshop.com/Adventurer- ... Movie-Hat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.themovieshop.com/Adventurer- ... Movie-Hat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you want one that looks like the picture you would have to get the $100.00 fur felt version. Probably a Christy's like John said.

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:28 pm

shade88 wrote:
Jeremiah wrote:Yeah, and now I a having a hard tome wrapping my head around getting a rabbit felt after owning a beaver.
Before John announced the ABL, I would've probably agreed.

That is certainly good news.

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:34 pm

erikgunnlugson wrote:They have just taken new pictures of their fur felt fedora and are using it for their wool version.

http://www.themovieshop.com/Adventurer- ... Movie-Hat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.themovieshop.com/Adventurer- ... Movie-Hat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you want one that looks like the picture you would have to get the $100.00 fur felt version. Probably a Christy's like John said.

I'm looking at the wool version I own as I type and it looks like the picture on the website. They may be using the same pictures for their fur and wool hats, but the pictures for the wool are a fair representation.

It's dark now, but I'll get pictures tomorrow in the light.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Charybdis · Post by **Charybdis** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:56 pm

The safest bet is to just stay away from those $50 hats. You get what you pay for. Save a bit, sell a bit and wait until you can at least get a Fed IV or something similar. That's what I did and was not disappointed. Now I want an AB!

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:28 pm

Jeremiah wrote:Yeah, and now I a having a hard tome wrapping my head around getting a rabbit felt after owning a beaver.

I have one of John's Cairo hats, and my ABL is in a box somewhere between Oregon and here.

A well made rabbit fur hat is different from beaver fur, but I wouldn't say "inferior." Less expensive, because beaver fur costs more, and a bit more sensitive to moisture and prone to tapering, but the way John Penman, Steve Delk and probably David Garrison "pre-age" their felt means it's not really an issue. My Cairo is 3 years old - it's been worn and rained on, and it still looks the same, with a slight reverse taper, as it did the day I got it.

Comparing beaver and quality rabbit is somewhat like comparing Bordeaux and Beaujolais. Both red wines, both quality, largely a matter of taste and occasion.

By comparison - wool felt is Mountain Dew.

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:29 pm

BendingOak wrote:Is it me or does those photos look like the shots of the Christy's hat?

It's not just you. That was my first thought.

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:33 pm

Ridgerunner58 wrote:
Jeremiah wrote:Yeah, and now I a having a hard tome wrapping my head around getting a rabbit felt after owning a beaver.
I have one of John's Cairo hats, and my ABL is in a box somewhere between Oregon and here.

A well made rabbit fur hat is different from beaver fur, but I wouldn't say "inferior." Less expensive, because beaver fur costs more, and a bit more sensitive to moisture and prone to tapering, but the way John Penman, Steve Delk and probably David Garrison "pre-age" their felt means it's not really an issue. My Cairo is 3 years old - it's been worn and rained on, and it still looks the same, with a slight reverse taper, as it did the day I got it.

Comparing beaver and quality rabbit is somewhat like comparing Bordeaux and Beaujolais. Both red wines, both quality, largely a matter of taste and occasion.

By comparison - wool felt is Mountain Dew.

Excellent and certainly nice to hear. Look forward to the pics.

trancoss · Post by **trancoss** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:27 pm

If you take the word of someone who does not know much about hats, I will save the money and try to get a better hat than the official 50$ movie replica. You will not regret it.
Everything everybody has said here is great information and I hope it helped you one way or another

NamedAfterTheDog · Post by **NamedAfterTheDog** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:43 pm

Thanks to you all for your help

I have collected my fair share of fedoras over the years ( including that god-awful crushable DP one) and am currently looking into the Akubra Fed VI or Todd's deluxe. Both are almost double the price of the TMS hat, but will most likely be worth it. I would still love to see those pics of the TMS hat though! If anyone has any other suggestions, that would be great! I really don't want to spend more than $115.

And a question to those who own the TMS fedora: Is it "crushable" or is it very fragile?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:50 pm

I would say go with the akubra

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:23 pm

Jeremiah wrote:Yeah, and now I a having a hard tome wrapping my head around getting a rabbit felt after owning a beaver.

Depends on the felt. I'd take a vintage rabbit or rabbit/beaver blend over a modern beaver hat.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:47 pm

jlee562 wrote:
Jeremiah wrote:Yeah, and now I a having a hard tome wrapping my head around getting a rabbit felt after owning a beaver.
Depends on the felt. I'd take a vintage rabbit or rabbit/beaver blend over a modern beaver hat.

I'm not sure I would. Just because something is old doesn't make it better. There was @#$% back then as well. Not every hat that's 50 years old or older wasn't great.

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:33 am

Here are the pictures.

Mine hangs on a static display unless one of the kids want to use it for costuming/playing.

Outside in direct sunlight.

The ribbon, bow work and stitching could be far better.

Better view of the texture of the felt. The hat does come with a leather sweatband and is lined.

Gotta question the "hand made" bit.

On the whole I think these are the best 'costume grade' hats currently available.
No, I would not rely on it as an everyday wear.
No, it's nowhere as nice as the cheapest rabbit felt hats available.

But if you are only going to wear it a couple times a year costuming or put it on display or you have a very young Indy fan in your life who is still growing; it is very serviceable and certainly better than any of the officially licensed stuff that's out there.

NamedAfterTheDog wrote:And a question to those who own the TMS fedora: Is it "crushable" or is it very fragile?

It is very soft/crushable. You could sit on this thing, stuff it into a bag, etc. and then pop it right back into shape.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:02 am

That is quite a bit better looking than I expected and it's closer to the photos than I thought it would be. As a costume piece or display it wouldn't be bad. It's still wool, of course, and the photo hat is still a different hat, especially the ribbon and bow.

"Hand Made" encompasses a broad range. I could probably say I "hand start" my car when I use my finger to push the start button.

NamedAfterTheDog · Post by **NamedAfterTheDog** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:05 pm

For the price, it looks darn good. Thanks for the pics

Chiliana Jones · Post by **Chiliana Jones** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:50 am

One of the best wool hats i've seen so far. Great starter for the younger generation.

CJ

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:38 am

BendingOak wrote:
jlee562 wrote:
Jeremiah wrote:Yeah, and now I a having a hard tome wrapping my head around getting a rabbit felt after owning a beaver.
Depends on the felt. I'd take a vintage rabbit or rabbit/beaver blend over a modern beaver hat.

I'm not sure I would. Just because something is old doesn't make it better. There was @#$% back then as well. Not every hat that's 50 years old or older wasn't great.

Erm, pardon me for stating a personal preference.

Sure, not every hat made back then was great. Then again, it's 2015 and we're not talking about every hat made back in the day, we're talking about the ones that have survived. It's a form of selection bias.

Moreover, simply that a hat is made from beaver, it doesn't automatically make it exceptional. How many times have you yourself pointed this out about the beaver DP?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:58 am

jlee562 wrote:
BendingOak wrote:
jlee562 wrote:
Jeremiah wrote:Yeah, and now I a having a hard tome wrapping my head around getting a rabbit felt after owning a beaver.
Depends on the felt. I'd take a vintage rabbit or rabbit/beaver blend over a modern beaver hat.

I'm not sure I would. Just because something is old doesn't make it better. There was @#$% back then as well. Not every hat that's 50 years old or older wasn't great.
Erm, pardon me for stating a personal preference.

Sure, not every hat made back then was great. Then again, it's 2015 and we're not talking about every hat made back in the day, we're talking about the ones that have survived. It's a form of selection bias.

Moreover, simply that a hat is made from beaver, it doesn't automatically make it exceptional. How many times have you yourself pointed this out about the beaver DP?

Yes exactly. So what is your point?

I have seen some old hats that have survived that weren't very good at all. You can state your personal preference and I can clarify that not all old hats are great. A

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:15 pm

My point is I have a preference for vintage hats. Also not sure why you feel compelled to turn everything into an argument. And as I said initially, depends on the felt. No, I'm not making a blanket statement that every vintage hat is superior to modern beaver felts; so in that regard the "what's your point?" should really be directed at you.

I find that lots of folks whose main exposure to hats is through the Indy costuming world sometimes have misconceptions. A well made beaver hat is a great thing. So is a well made rabbit fur hat. Winchester makes an excellent product, but as the saying goes "they don't make 'em like they used to." In terms of the thicknesses, eveness of dye saturation, impregnation of stiffener, etc. These things just aren't the same anymore.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:37 pm

I'm not trying to start a fight with you. I disagree with you, that's all. I don't think it is a accurate statement to say any rabbit felt hat older then 50 years ago is better then a beaver felt hat made today. That is simplest not true.

I don't only use one felter. I also don't but much of stock offerings anymore.

Even with the statement " they don't make like they used to" isn't fare or true. There are hats made today that are better then a lot from long ago. There are even improvements in hat making from hats long ago.

Forrest For the Trees · Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:57 pm

Not a hat expert myself, but I think when someone says, "They don't make 'em like they used to," I think the reference is to well known companies such as Stetson and the like. When you compare a new hat with the Stetson label, to say, a New Old Stock Stetson from 60 years ago, the differences are pretty obvious.

Now, I'd say, custom hatters like yourself, John, are producing some of the best hats ever made. But custom hatters are a rare breed, and represent a pretty niche market. When the average consumer goes out to buy a hat today, say from a place like John Helmer's in Portland, he's not going to find a hat as well made as those found in the 50s or 60s.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:05 pm

BendingOak wrote:I'm not trying to start a fight with you. I disagree with you, that's all. I don't think it is a accurate statement to say any rabbit felt hat older then 50 years ago is better then a beaver felt hat made today. That is simplest not true.

But for the fact that I never made any such statement. Quite to the contrary, I just explicitly said the opposite. I'm sorry that's not clear to you, but I don't know how you think I somehow said "any rabbit felt older than 50 years ago is better then a beaver felt hat today," when what I literally just said was "No, I'm not making a blanket statement that every vintage hat is superior to modern beaver felts...."

Even with the statement " they don't make like they used to" isn't fare or true. There are hats made today that are better then a lot from long ago. There are even improvements in hat making from hats long ago.

I made some specific points about modern hats that I feel hold true. IMHO, comparing a modern custom to a vintage hat is apples to oranges fundamentally because it's a production made item vs custom. I don't think it's somehow radically out of left field to state, as a generalization, that modern production hats just aren't the same. Rather, that's the conventional wisdom. Don't know why it's so upsetting when I point this out. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, and I think that everybody understands that a generalization is just that, a generalization prone to those exceptions. With regards to Winchester specifically (since I have experience with their product through more than one hatter), I want to make it clear that I'm not knocking their product. Their felt is great.

But when it comes to personal preference, an inherently subjective thing, given the choice between, say, a 1950's 3x Stetson or a 100% beaver hat made from a Winchester body, I'm going to take the vintage hat. YMMV.

This whole kerfluffle was only to say that beaver is not ALWAYS better than rabbit, which is what I was saying in my reply to Jeremiah.

If you want to say that the beaver DP is superior to ANY vintage rabbit hat, go ahead. Unless that's the case, as I said earlier, it really seems like you're just intent on making a mountain out of a molehill.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:40 pm

This statement right here......

jlee562 wrote:
Jeremiah wrote:Yeah, and now I a having a hard tome wrapping my head around getting a rabbit felt after owning a beaver.
Depends on the felt. I'd take a vintage rabbit or rabbit/beaver blend over a modern beaver hat.

And all I said in return is .........

I'm not sure I would. Just because something is old doesn't make it better. There was @#$% back then as well. Not every hat that's 50 years old or older wasn't great.

I think you need to read my post before replying to them. I never said the beaver DP is better then a vintage rabbit felt.

Why are you taking it so personally?

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:19 pm

BendingOak wrote:This statement right here......
jlee562 wrote:
Jeremiah wrote:Yeah, and now I a having a hard tome wrapping my head around getting a rabbit felt after owning a beaver.
Depends on the felt. I'd take a vintage rabbit or rabbit/beaver blend over a modern beaver hat.
And all I said in return is .........

I'm not sure I would. Just because something is old doesn't make it better. There was @#$% back then as well. Not every hat that's 50 years old or older wasn't great.

I think you need to read my post before replying to them. I never said the beaver DP is better then a vintage rabbit felt.

Why are you taking it so personally?

I'm not taking it personally beyond the fact that you insist on "rebutting" a point I never made. And I think this is pretty odd considering the last time you chose to interject yourself into a post I made after you thought I was somehow making a comment about you, despite not quoting you or addressing you. Come to find out you couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread.

Yes, I agree that not every hat is great because it's old. I clarified my point and you still insist on rebutting. Your patronizing invitation to re-read your posts is actually hilariously ironic in the light of you claiming the exact opposite of what I said in the previous post and the fact that if you think my argument was that you said the DP was better than a vintage hat, you misread the point (which is that unless you're going to make that argument that the beaver DP is better, we're not really disagreeing).

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:48 pm

This is going no where. I think you took me the wrong way and then went running with it. I'm done, I really don't know why I even try anymore. Good luck to you.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:13 pm

Erm, no John, that's what you did.

didier · Post by **didier** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:11 am

I 've bought a wool hat from Movie shop, a few years ago...Very, very nice hat for a first one (and price), similar to Christy's on stitching and sweetband quality. The wool is very soft, most accurate colour than Fed IV.
I now have a Garrison, a Henry and two Christy's so I gave it to my son as a collector's item... this first hat was wonderful for me before I decided to buy one in rabbit fur felt...
Some pics of my son and me with this hat

didier · Post by **didier** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:16 am

Same, with Fuller's earth...