Club Obi Wan

Dear friends and indyfans... heck, I don't even know where to start after all this time...

I hope you're all up an well? My wife and I got a daughter almost to years ago: Tessa. A WONDERFUL kid! However many things changed in my life since then. Some to the better (she's a cuty) some for the worse (sparetime for checking the forum...). After all the hats won't make themself alone and yes, Stefan and I are still passionated about what we're doing and enjoy working on the hats just as much as always.

Well, I believe that Stefan and I reached a goal worth sharing. Shared happiness is double happiness is what they say, no?

So, what's new?

Gents,

it's hard to describe the feeling Stefan and I had when the brown UPS truck showed up with the new batch of completely revisited AB Raiders boots from Alden...

This has been a long road and the satisfaction of having reached the goal in re-creating THE boots together with the incredible help from Alden and their continous support is just unbelievable!

Some customer pointed out, that our AB Raiders boots would be too dark to be screen accurate, at least compared to most of the scenes in Raiders and while both Stefan and I always considered them to be spot on with some scenes (for example when Indy hands his gun to Belloq after the temple escape), we couldn't deny that the boots are considerable lighter in other scenes. We spoke to Alden and other experts about this and I found some old notes he'd taken years ago when discussing the topic with Errico (erriwan) on the phone. Errico had been interviewing Noel Howard a year or so before he passed away and he told Errico a couple of things on how they distressed the boots for the movie... Interesting reading but some things just didn't make sense. Until just recently.

These are a pair of vintage 405's from the Raiders era in mint condition:



Kyle, I hope it's ok to use your picture, otherwise please let me know.

Ok, so that's one of the colors Alden used back then right? WRONG! And that's were we stumbled. That particular color reminds of SOME batches of a color called Ravello. However, Ravello is a CORDOVAN only! So does that mean, that they used Cordovan boots in Raiders?

No, they were calf / cow. How would you know? - Well, calf / cow hide has a specific way of creasing when being (ab)used. So does Cordovan. And if you look real close at some particular scenes (for example when Indy climbs down the flying wing to have a "conversation" with the mechanic), you'll see that I mean.

Ok, so if this wasn't the color they used back then... then what? To quote Doc Emmet Brown from Back to the Future: "Marty, you have to think four dimensional!!!" Leather does age. Whether you use it or not, it will age from humidity and the change of temperature over the years. Especially over a period of thirty years. It was like someone turned on the light when we finally figured that out. So the boots you see in the picture above are a pair of beautifully aged, naturally patinated 405's from the Raiders era!

What we wanted, is a leather that would age to look like that! After all, that's what they did in Raiders. They aged the boots to a certain degree, distressed them, re-polished them etc. etc. they got an artificial patina and just like the hats and the jackets, there were more than just a single pair of boots (not THAT big a surprise really). So, after looooooooooooong discussions with Alden and other experts, we were given a couple of leather samples from Alden to play with. Raw, unfinished leather. We cut these samples into pieces and numbered them before we distressed them in various ways. In the end we had one leather sample that would gimmick all the various shades of brown seen in Raiders, just depending on how we distressed or polished it (according to my notes). Finally we took the last little sample and forced it to age without distressing it and that blew us out of the water: it looked SPOT on with the picture above!

Gents, we're extremely freakin' proud to present you this:





One is a pair of raw leather boots right out of the box, the other is my own pair on which he forced on thirty years of patina by polishing and cleaning them again and again for... heck... I think Stefan made an entire hat in the meanwhile. You decide where to take them from here!

"Well the laces are different, than on the ones above" - good catch! Now look at the temple tile scene again... See it? These laces are THINNER than on the vintage pair above. Could be due to Ford tied them so tight that there's almost no gap between the left and the right half of the boot. COULD be. We simply don't know (and PLEASE don't bring up the stunt boots from the truck chase scene with the round laces yet another time, that horse has been beatin' to death so many times by now). So we went with some SLIGHTLY thinner but waxed laces this time, to stay s.a. WITHOUT stopping the blood from circulating in or feet.

A HUGE thanks for the TREMENDOUES patient of those of you who pre-ordered. I think that it paid of pretty well.

Yours truly,

Marc

This is truly exciting. Thanks for a great post!

This may be a stupid question, but the dark brown pair is the AB Alden boot from a previous run, correct??

I have 2 pair of the older boots with the fabric lining. One pair is unworn, still. I love them!

Nice to hear about your daughter Marc, and from you for that matter!!!

For the new members, "Errico" c'est moi, I was previously known as "erri wan". I met Noel Howard many years ago, however keep in mind that, regarding the shoes, he was probably referring to Temple of Doom Aldens which he had in his house when I visited him. I don't know if that makes any difference, surely they must have had a different run between Raiders ('81) and ToD ('84).
I don't ever remember what Noel told me, funny (but not unexpected) that you would, Marc

Say hi to the wife from me

I think what Marc has provided is here something very different and something that I was contemplating doing with the Alden Indy boots in Natural Chromexcel. The natural chromexcel boots that I've seen aged, go to a nice brown colour, and they are also a calf leather, but not the same tanning process as the standard 405.

I think this is a step in the right direction and I commend you on thinking out of the box, but I don't think this is the right leather colour to start. The boots I found from an old auction on a Japanese auction site (Rakuten http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/beef ... m-s-003_2/) were 70's deadstock Alden 405's, and you can tell because just the "405" code is used on the box. Any 405's that are modified from the standard have additional alphanumeric characters added to it; Marc's dark brown 405's are coded 4055H I believe.

These to me these are the accurate boots, and come from a time when Alden used a different brown colour then they use today, even though the tanning process is the same. This leather colour probably isn't available anymore. These are calf/cow leather, not Cordovan.



Also, I've seen many Cordovan Indy boots, and one of the major tells that it is cordovan leather, is the mocc toe stitching. The way the leather is pulled during the stitching is a factor in cordovan leather.




This is a new pair of Indy's in Natural Chromexcel. While not the proper leather they are still calf/cow just tanned differently, with age the colour is very close to the 70's deadstock.


Now, this is all based on looking at Marc's posted pics. Maybe the boots look different in person, but what I am looking at, I don't think we have a complete match. There is no way they will darken to the proper brown colour, and the stitching won't hold the polish. It will always fade back to the original beige colour. Go back, and watch the blu-ray, especially in the opening sequence, and you can see the details of the boot. Also, if you can, go back and watch the HD broadcast from TV if you have a source on your computer or DVR. You can see the same details.

TheExit148 wrote:Maybe the boots look different in person, but what I am looking at, I don't think we have a complete match. Go back, and watch the blu-ray, especially in the opening sequence, and you can see the details of the boot. Also, if you can, go back and watch the HD broadcast from TV if you have a source on your computer or DVR. You can see the same details.

+1.

Shot for shot Blu-ray screencaps:
http://movie-screencaps.com/raiders-lost-ark-1981/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My God, those chromexcel 405s are perfect LC boots. How long has Alden been making those? I... want.... a.... pair.... (We need a new smiley with money flying out of its wallet).

Cant wait to see these in person the leather treatment seems to really bring the boots alive. Stefan said my package should be here wednesday so I will post pics once i get them.

chuck2003 wrote:Cant wait to see these in person the leather treatment seems to really bring the boots alive. Stefan said my package should be here wednesday so I will post pics once i get them.

Agreed! These are most stunning, indeed! Now, for (and I just know someone is going to point me to another post that I have missed, or I am just not reading this one correctly) the question. Where can these be ordered from and what is the price point? Thanks! W>

email Stefan info@adventurebilt.com to order they cost 550 euros...cant wait to get them will post pictures the second I get them! Luckily I'm off on wednesday so I can eagerly wait for the fedex man

chuck2003 wrote:email Stefan info@adventurebilt.com to order they cost 550 euros...cant wait to get them will post pictures the second I get them! Luckily I'm off on wednesday so I can eagerly wait for the fedex man

Thanks buddy! Not so sure I would want to be you on Weds....you had better have a couple of pairs of shoes, boots, whatever -- as you will wear the soles out waiting for the truck to pull up ! Thanks, again! W>

As of today, 550 euros is $764 USD. I love Indy, but not that much!

Same here. But I *do* love Indy enough to fork over $500+ for the natural chromexcel Aldens in the not-too-distant future.

Charybdis wrote:As of today, 550 euros is $764 USD. I love Indy, but not that much!

Thanks, I think ! Ouch! Big chunk of change. May have to think this one through....Do appreciate your feedback and quick response. W>

Darn nice boots but 550 euros?
Ouch!




Sent from my iPhone.

I like 'em! Couldn't help noticing the white top stitch is missing around the opening ?

Boots should be delivered any time now currently awaiting the fedex man. Will update with pictures as soon as I get them

Update: @#$% fedex...."Estimated delivery :N/A" aka its never made it to the delivery facility........

chuck2003 wrote:Boots should be delivered any time now currently awaiting the fedex man. Will update with pictures as soon as I get them

Cool man, looking forward to the pictures. Hopefully they meet your expectations. I'm curious to see some more pics.

Nice looking boots. I thought the natural indy boots have been available for a while now, is there anything that sets these apart from the boots offered on the shoe mart?

Basil wrote:Nice looking boots. I thought the natural indy boots have been available for a while now, is there anything that sets these apart from the boots offered on the shoe mart?

Looks to be a different leather. The Shoemart boots are natural chromexcel while these from Adventurebilt are a natural calf/cow leather. They didn't go through the same process as chromexcel.

Thanks for the clarification! Really looking forward to seeing more pics too.

My Review of the revised AB Alden 405's

Well they are finally here after about a six month wait. These are a revised version of the original AB Alden which is supposed to be an exact copy of the boots worn in Raiders. The boot has changed quite a bit from the last iteration. The biggest change is the color. Much like the Raiders Jacket for years we had the correct pattern but never the right leather and color up until recently. With the boots we have the correct "pattern" which is the Alden 405's. But we have never really nailed down the correct leather and color that was available in the late 70's early 80's. As many of you have found out a lot of the techniques and material used to make the clothing that Indy wore in the film has disappeared over time. By the time the makers of the originals found out there would be a demand for the exact gear that was seen in the film it was to late. AB has taken a second stab at trying to get it right with their new offering from Alden.

Are these the end all be all Raiders of the Lost Ark boots? Not quite; these boots are a good attempt but its still not perfect.

The good: There are three main things that I think AB has got correct with these boots. The first and most obvious is the fact that these are Alden 405's. The next thing that they got right is that the thinner laces are accurate to what was seen in the movie. If you take a look at the following link http://movie-screencaps.com/raiders-lost-ark-1981/ in the opening scene the laces appear to be thinner then modern Alden laces. Like Marc has stated it could be because Harrison has tied his shoes very tight. But to me the laces look thinner. The third is the leather. If you look at some close up high res screen shots there are points in the film like the flying wing scene where you can see distressing marks from the boot's leather flexing. To me the leather they have chosen for these boots look to be a match.

The not so good: The overall color is not correct. The original incarnation of the AB Aldens were criticized for being to dark. Well with these boots they went to an extremely light color. That being said the color is gorgeous how ever I dont believe they are a match. If you ask me the original color was simply the 70's dead stock color seen in one of the above postings. To me thats the color I see. I believe if you took the 70's 405's in a dark lit room with dirt caked all over it you would see something very similar to what is seen on screen. In fact in some of the high res pictures in the link I posted above there are certain moments where the light hits the boots and you can see what the color of HF's boot's are. I have spoken to Stefan and he suggested using Burgol's light brown shoe cream on the boots. In the pictures he posted you can see the difference. The middle boot is what you get out of the box. The bottom boot is the same boot with a few treatments of Burgol's shoe cream. This definitely helps but still not the same color that I see on screen.The next is the welt and the stitching. It is the general concencious on the COW forums that the welt was a natural color and the stitching was white. With these boots you have a redish welt with tan stitching. Again not a match.

Final thoughts: I have to say the boots are GORGEOUS. And I think they are a great step in the right direction. AB has hit a few marks of the check list that makes the perfect pair of boots. However its not a perfect match. To me the biggest miss is again the color. The leather is way to light the stitching should be white and the welt needs to be a natural color. If you want my opinion the closest boots on the market are the Alden Natural Chromexcel 405's. To me those are the closest boots out there. It looks like Alden Natural Chromexcel 405's caked with dirt in a dimly lit room. In my opinion the 70's dead stock boots are the exact boots worn by HF in Raiders. That being said these are really nice boots. I love the color it has many different colors due to the type of leather. It's not one solid color. But like I said it isnt the color on screen. I do plan to take Stefan's advice and use some light brown shoe cream on it multiple times. I will update with some more pictures when I do. Also I'd like to mention the cost; These boots are 550 euro's, with that you will get a pair of drop dead gorgeous boots. However they wont be 100% screen accurate but they are unique and will not be sold by any one other then AB. So its up to you to decide if these boots are for you. Overall as a boot purchase I am happy with my purchase; but as a Indy boot purchase....not so much. I do also plan to eventually buy the Natural Chromexcel 405's and will post comparison pictures when I receive them.




Color comparison: Below is an AB Beaver Raiders Fedora and a Bill Kelso Relic hunter in straited lamb

When those finally start to darken, that beige stitching on the side of the boots is really going to stand out. It will not look good. These aren't even close to the Raiders boots, and even with all that polishing etc, they won't look like they should.

They are nice boots on their own, but definitely not SA Indy boots.

I too just received my pair of AB Alden 405s and I must say I'm extremely upset with what transpired. I WANTED the dark brown boots with the colored stitching and welt. Nowhere along the way from the time I placed my order and forked over my hard-earned cash to the day they were delivered to my doorstep over a year later was I made aware that the color would be anything different from what I saw on the Adventurebilt website! I loved the way the original dark brown AB boots looked and that's WHY I purchased them. These boots were freakin' expensive as ####! You'd think I would have been informed that I would NOT be getting what I thought I had pre-ordered. I'm extremely disappointed and feel like I have been ripped off. Not as advertised! I hope AB makes it right with a full refund because these are not the boots I ordered last year. WTF!!!

GEEZ! I could have bought a pair of the Natural Chromexcel from Shoe Mart, saved myself a couple of hundred bucks and a year of waiting if I wanted a light colored pair of boots. Sorry, but I'm pretty outraged at the moment. Adventurebilt, please make this right.

I'm sorry the darker boots look great but those aren't working for me. Nice in their own right but nope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RedburnIV wrote:I'm sorry the darker boots look great but those aren't working for me. Nice in their own right but nope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep nice boots on their own but not whats seen in the movies imo.If I bought these on a whim as a general boot purchase I would be happy. They are nice boots but these are supposed to be the end all be all screen accurate Raiders boots and they just arent. The color is completely off.I think I will be saving for the natural chromexal boots. I think they are much more accurate. Really disappointed

I was very interested in a pair of these but if those are being delivered after the outrageous price and incredibly brutal wait time, then it's not happening. Disappointing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

chuck2003 wrote:Yep nice boots on their own but not whats seen in the movies imo. They are nice boots but these are supposed to be the end all be all screen accurate Raiders boots and they just arent. The color is completely off.

Agreed, Chuck.

It's not about what the boots might've looked like before years of wear and um, "patina". It's about our perception of them on screen, and duplicating it in reality. Kinda like the jackets, holsters, and everything else.

Haha, ironically the same debacle going on right now with Mr. Penman and his Raiders hat ribbon methods...wow, we fans are a silly finicky bunch BUT any vendor going into the Indygear game knows that from the beggining and knows exactly what they are getting into! Just wow!

Cajunkraut wrote:

chuck2003 wrote:Yep nice boots on their own but not whats seen in the movies imo. They are nice boots but these are supposed to be the end all be all screen accurate Raiders boots and they just arent. The color is completely off.

Agreed, Chuck.

It's not about what the boots might've looked like before years of wear and um, "patina". It's about our perception of them on screen, and duplicating it in reality. Kinda like the jackets, holsters, and everything else.

Thats correct, but how many jackets, whips, holsters are "spot on" screen-accurate "off the rack"? Personaly I love the new version,
as I can "bring" them to a certain level to be s.a. which I see in the screen-shots, or let them age naturaly, by wearing them all day,
wherever I like. Just as I want. I do believe it is much easier to "distress" the boots this way round, instead having a mid/dark brown color
and I do have "break the leather" with grinding paper (or whatever).

Of course, if we are talking about the price and that it should be "spot-on off the box", I do accept that some will not like, or accept that,
those boots to be THE Raiders boots. Totaly aggreed.

MurdocXXL wrote:

Cajunkraut wrote:

chuck2003 wrote:Yep nice boots on their own but not whats seen in the movies imo. They are nice boots but these are supposed to be the end all be all screen accurate Raiders boots and they just arent. The color is completely off.

Agreed, Chuck.

It's not about what the boots might've looked like before years of wear and um, "patina". It's about our perception of them on screen, and duplicating it in reality. Kinda like the jackets, holsters, and everything else.

Thats correct, but how many jackets, whips, holsters are "spot on" screen-accurate "off the rack"? Personaly I love the new version,
as I can "bring" them to a certain level to be s.a. which I see in the screen-shots, or let them age naturaly, by wearing them all day,
wherever I like. Just as I want. I do believe it is much easier to "distress" the boots this way round, instead having a mid/dark brown color
and I do have "break the leather" with grinding paper (or whatever).

Of course, if we are talking about the price and that it should be "spot-on off the box", I do accept that some will not like, or accept that,
those boots to be THE Raiders boots. Totaly aggreed.

I'm with ya, Murdoc. New items that could benefit from varying degrees of break-in or distressing are a completely different story.

But with these boots, how hard can it be to duplicate the deadstock Aldens that just so happen to match the ones we perceive in the Raiders Blu-ray screencaps? I have a hard time imagining that the original boots ever looked like AB's new offering.

I feel that AB totally overthought this one when the answer is right in front of them. Kudos to the guys for their research into the leather. Now make it medium brown with white stitching and a natural welt!

These boots are being marketing as "THE Alden boots from Raiders" when they are simply not. End of story.

Cajunkraut wrote:

MurdocXXL wrote:

Cajunkraut wrote:

chuck2003 wrote:Yep nice boots on their own but not whats seen in the movies imo. They are nice boots but these are supposed to be the end all be all screen accurate Raiders boots and they just arent. The color is completely off.

Agreed, Chuck.

It's not about what the boots might've looked like before years of wear and um, "patina". It's about our perception of them on screen, and duplicating it in reality. Kinda like the jackets, holsters, and everything else.

Thats correct, but how many jackets, whips, holsters are "spot on" screen-accurate "off the rack"? Personaly I love the new version,
as I can "bring" them to a certain level to be s.a. which I see in the screen-shots, or let them age naturaly, by wearing them all day,
wherever I like. Just as I want. I do believe it is much easier to "distress" the boots this way round, instead having a mid/dark brown color
and I do have "break the leather" with grinding paper (or whatever).

Of course, if we are talking about the price and that it should be "spot-on off the box", I do accept that some will not like, or accept that,
those boots to be THE Raiders boots. Totaly aggreed.

I'm with ya, Murdoc. New items that could benefit from varying degrees of break-in or distressing are a completely different story.

But with these boots, how hard can it be to duplicate the deadstock Aldens that just so happen to match the ones we perceive in the Raiders Blu-ray screencaps? I have a hard time imagining that the original boots ever looked like AB's new offering.

I feel that AB totally overthought this one when the answer is right in front of them. Kudos to the guys for their research into the leather. Now make it medium brown with white stitching and a natural welt!

I agree, like I said the two things they got right is the leather and the laces. All they need to do is give us the correct color leather stitching and welt and we have a winner. But as they sit now they will probably be just another pair of boots to wear here and there. I dont think they are ugly boots at all they just arent indy boots

That is a true bummer They could pass for CS boots, but definatley not Raiders. I feel for those who shelled out hard earned money for these, not to mention the excruciating wait time prior to delivery. How these can be seen as THE Raiders boots is mind boggling

OMG, after expressing my utter disappointment with these boots that I will never wear to Stefan from AB the only response so far is that they're sorry I'm not satisfied and that they did not inform me about the color change for this run. Then he threw in the original post from Marc in this thread. The problem is, this information about the new color was only posted a week ago. I pre-ordered these boots over a year ago and was never told they would be anything other than the dark brown with colored stitching and welt. I would not have shelled out over $700 USD if I had known that ahead of time! Classic bait and switch. Personally, I do think they are ugly. They're tan for goodness sake! So what I'm hearing from AB is "too bad"? I'll pay to ship them back to Germany just to get my $$$ back but it sounds like they aren't going to work with me on this. Excellent customer service. Way to go AB! Beware of Adventurebilt pre-orders folks, beware. They apparently can't be trusted. So ticked!

Nightgoat wrote: I'll pay to ship them back to Germany just to get my $$$ back but it sounds like they aren't going to work with me on this. Excellent customer service. Way to go AB! Beware of Adventurebilt pre-orders folks, beware. They apparently can't be trusted. So ticked!

I'm sorry, I don't understand.
Did you ask to return the boots, pay for shipping back in order to get a full refund, and AB guys refused????
And you paid in front more than a year ago, so, no possible PayPal dispute...

Those boots looking nothing like what I'm seeing here.

I don't know what movie they're watching but I see a very different color.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unless they're trying to go for this look.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RedburnIV wrote:Those boots looking nothing like what I'm seeing here.


I don't know what movie they're watching but I see a very different color.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The original color isn't that either.
Filters, stage lighting, etc. tends to dark the gear color.
IMO, the true color is this:

Diego, that's the color I'm seeing in the frame I posted above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RedburnIV wrote:Unless they're trying to go for this look.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

See those look almost identical to what the AB aldens....but a raiders boot they are not

RedburnIV wrote:Diego, that's the color I'm seeing in the frame I posted above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree that is the color of the boots he wore IMO. The closest thing that Alden makes to that is the natural chromexcel. Its very close not perfect but a #### of a lot closer to then the AB

I've sent 2 e-mails to AB since my boots arrived Wednesday and I was shocked to see what was in the box. The first e-mail was politely asking if a mistake was made and, if not, could I exchange them for a pair of the older dark brown boots if they had any laying around in my size (I even said I would take a used pair) or send them back for a refund. The response to that was simply "sorry you're not satisfied" followed by a cut and paste of Marc's posting from this thread. My second e-mail was a little more forthright where I offered to pay to ship them back for a full refund and I haven't heard back yet. So, while they haven't refused to make it right, they also haven't offered any options for me other than "sorry". I hope they do just let me send them back for a refund because that's really all I'm asking for. I think any reputable business would do the same if they sent a customer something altogether different than what they purchased. If I bought a black pair of Chuck Taylor's from Amazon.com or zappos.com, etc. and they sent me a red pair don't you think I would have no problem sending them back for a full refund? It would be one thing if I knew ahead of time they were going to be this completely different color but that was not the case. They so much as admitted that. We'll see what happens. Fingers crossed.

Nightgoat, I'm sorry for your position. Although I haven't put forth the money for a pair, nor waited the lengthy amount of time to have the wrong color boots arrive, I was very, very interested in getting a pair for myself, but this situation is not really providing any confidence in order or dealing with AB. My first clue was having to wait a month to actually hear back from Stefan when I first inquired about the boots, but now this? With the wrong color and a simple apology to unsatisfied customers? It's unacceptable. So much that I can't help but feel outrage for the rest of the unsatisfied customers. AB claimed to have THE boots, and had no qualms taking money from customers with hopes of ordering THE boots. I think more than an apology is due. I hope things work out for those who are not happy with their boots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel for the guys who purchased these in good faith.
The colour is not even in the same ballpark as the Raiders boots.

Very disappointing and I hope they do the right thing by their customers.


Sent from my iPhone.

Well Stefan emailed me back and offered a full refund minus shipping fee's/ paypal fee's as long as they are in mint condition. Really ***** I was looking forward to these boots for a very long time. I really do like them as a boot purchase but as a indy boot purchase for them to not even be in the same ball park is so disapointing. I realize making Indy gear perfect is not easy but this isnt even on the same planet. I think I'm going to take the refund buy the natural chromexcel boots and save the left over money and call it a day. As a boot purchase 550 euros is a bit to rich. If these were THE boots I would have no problem paying that much

Stefan also e-mailed me with the same offer this morning. I am very much relieved and am glad that AB is going to give me a refund. Thank you, Marc and Stefan for doing right by your customers. My issue isn't even that the boots aren't SA. I understand if people think the previous runs of AB boots were too dark to be SA. That wasn't my issue. I actually like the way they look and that's what I thought I was getting all along until the past week. I'm sorry for my earlier tirades about this situation but when there's that kind of money on the line tempers can flare. I appreciate the effort that AB put into their research and I'm sorry it didn't work with regards to this transaction. My faith is restored in their business practices and I will be satisfied with a full refund minus shipping and PayPal fees. Thank you, Stefan, for making this right.

Good to hear that guys. I was on the fence for the next batch. If the outcome is SA, I'll take a pair, that's for sure.

"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."