Club Obi Wan

It seems like such a simple concept, that I don't why it was not thought of before, but I wanted to post some stills of the Raiders jacket, so these images could be used as a reference. I hope that as time goes by, and as members seriously consider buying a jacket, that you will keep these photos in mind. Sometimes, the simplicity of seeing something as it is or was, is the best way.

Posted first is the only image of the Hawaii jacket, so you can compare the subtle contrast between it and the main Hero.

There are two images that I had hoped to capture which are missing from this group, the still of Indy on the hood of the truck that highlights the back panel, and the one of him outside the temple, filling his sandbag.









Some have really contributed to this thread, and I will post their links here, so you don't have to read all the way through to find them. Thanks for all your input, stills and links:

from TheExit's post:
http://imgur.com/a/NE5k4#0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

from Bdgsi11:
http://movie-screencaps.com/raiders-lost-ark-1981/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As you can see, the Raiders jacket was not super-grainy, but it did have grain, and obviously striations on the upper right panel. There are subtle differences between the Hawaii jacket and the main Hero, mainly the unusual shapes of the collars and the slight differences in pocket flaps. Notice how thin the yoke was in the infamous cobra scene. Check out all the lacerations on the Hawaii jacket, etc. Photos really do speak a thousand words.

Some time ago, Peter posted a couple of comments that described exactly how the leather was sourced and tanned, and are very important in terms of identifying exactly what the jacket was, and in possible repro. jackets:

We always wondered why we never could get the same type of texture from any other leather source, past or present? Here are the reason(s):

PETER wrote:LETS BE CLEAR ABOUT THIS.
I MADE THE ORIGINAL RAIDERS JACKETS. I BOUGHT THE SKINS AS NEW ZEALAND LAMB IN CRUST FROM JIM HUME (FELLMONGERS) IN SCOTLAND. I SENT THE SKINS TO MR JEFF CLARK OF TURN LEATHERS TANNERY AT TODMORDEN IN YORKSHIRE. THEY CONTRACT TANNED THE SKIN TO MY SPECIFICATION WHICH WAS A WORN LOOK FINISH.
THE RIB MARKS ,TICK MARKS AND MACHINE SKINNING STRETCH MARKS ARE TYPICAL OF NEWZEALAND AND AUSTRALIAN SKINS AND WERE ALL PUT INTO THE JACKETS TO ADD CHARACTOR WHICH IS WHAT YOU SEE.
IT WAS NOT SHRUNKEN LAMB. I HAD NEVER HEARD OF SHRUNKEN LAMB UNTIL RECENTLY AND JEF CLARKE IN 1980 WOULD HAVE SCRATCHED HIS HEAD AS HE ONLY TANNED IN THE TRADIONAL WAY OF PEGGING OUT TO DRY NATURALLY WHICH PRODUCED A FIRM SKIN TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO MODERN TANNING SYSYTEMS WHICH CAN CREATE BEAUTIFUL VARIATIES YOU CAN GET NOW.
I DONT USUALLY QUOTE NAMES BUT FACTS ARE FACTS.
CHEERS
PETER

PETER wrote:I know l dont usually but it seemed the thing to do and stop all the speculation.
The crust cost about $1 a foot and 50c per foot to contract tan. total $1.50
in those days. About 75p in English.

Modern tanning systems cannot make leather like that, it was tanned in vast wooden drums and then pegged out on wooden frames to dry naturally before pigmentation and pressing but a jacket made from it could stand in a corner by itself. which is why the film jackets were put into old tumble dryers with no heat and a few large pebbles to soften and rough up a bit.
I have been experimenting to recreate the effect and the washed lamb is close but still too soft. Itailians only know soft. We are getting there though
Sorry, Michaelson. my manners are terrible 'HAPPY NEW YEAR' to you and all.
Cheers
Peter

Actual measurements of the Raiders jacket from the Lucas archives, as taken by Nowak:

#000/888 Measurements that I took:
Front Flap w/ Collar Stand vertically from bottom to top: 23"
Shoulder from sleeve seam to collar seam: ~7"
Sleeves from cuff to sleeve seam: between 25 1/2" to 25 3/4"
Back vertical length from Collar Stand to Lower back panel: 23"
Chest width: 22 1/2"
Waist width: 21 1/2"
Pockets: 8" x 6.5" (Crystal Skull Pocket for comparison: 7.5" x 6")

I like the jackets in Raiders.

There, that was easy...

"Definitive" is a funny word in this case as lighting, which jacket, and the filters on the camera make a lot of difference shot to shot. The only one I don't care for is the one with the large yoke sitting by the dock. Otherwise, yeah baby. All good.

Displaying as much of the jacket and its characteristics as possible. And its difficult, but if you have to pick 6, why not go to the source.

The idea is to demystify, to the point that a guy does not see the jacket that he thinks he sees, but the jacket as close to reality as possible. Preconceived ideas can lead a person down the wrong track. Forget about what you think the jacket is, and focus instead on some images that give you a better idea of what it actually was.

Different maker and all, but that flying wing shot looks like Todd's all over, especially his newest run. Certainly it wasn't, but it has the look. In this way, maybe a guy can narrow it down and hone in on a vendor of choice. Its not the croc., dino hide that it was thought to be.

Love this topic. Thanks Texan!

Let us know what you decide when the time comes.

Texan- this is a great concept. I totally get it and think it will be a new pathway for future gearheads to follow in making their choices and decisions. I would have loved to have these hi-res shots when making my choices especially when coming to skin type as Wested offers so many. I too would love to know if this helps any of the up and coming newbies in their finacial destruction.

Kaboom.










More here: http://www.filmjackets.com/forum/viewto ... 4694450858" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know if any of you are capable of taking screen shots from the blu-ray, but the making of Raiders and deleted scenes have some of the best shots of the jacket I have ever seen. It would be nice to see those stills featured here.

Tundrarider wrote:

"Winds in the east, mist coming in.
Like somethin' is brewin' and bout to begin.
Can't put me finger on what lies in store,
But I fear what's to happen all happened before."

-Bert

I figured with all of the reboot and relaunch chatter lately, why not start here.

Gorak wrote:I too would love to know if this helps any of the up and coming newbies in their finacial destruction.

Oh, man - I nearly blew a mouthful of chips all over the keyboard just now!

I put all these together from the Blu-ray. Pretty sure they are all of the "Hero" jacket. You can view each one in full resolution too by clicking the gear on each pic to the right.

http://imgur.com/a/NE5k4#0

That's the spirit, guys!

Of course, sequences matter, ie you have the Hawaii jacket-outside shots until they enter the temple. Then its the Hero-for the Elstree in studio work and Tunisia: Tanis dig/Cairo.

You could start an entirely new forum on based on this idea!

Cajunkraut wrote:

Tundrarider wrote:

"Winds in the east, mist coming in.
Like somethin' is brewin' and bout to begin.
Can't put me finger on what lies in store,
But I fear what's to happen all happened before."

-Bert

I figured with all of the reboot and relaunch chatter lately, why not start here.

As said "Here we go....again!" Those blu-ray images are amazing! Now That´s reference images for ya!

MARQ wrote:As said "Here we go....again!" Those blu-ray images are amazing! Now That´s reference images for ya!

Thanks, I tried to get good shots of the jacket and different details throughout the movie. Looking through them again, to me Bill Kelso's original batch of the Stirated Lamb was the perfect leather for the Raiders jacket. The newer one is too grainy IMO.

Image 114 is really interesting. Not only is it a good shot of the jacket, but it also shows the hole in the right side front map pocket, which coincides with the People mag publicity still of Indy and Marion as they climbed out of the WoS. If you look closely, you can see Indy's gloves sticking out of it.

BK's first run was great stuff. This looks like run of the mill, around .8 mm striated lamb, obviously tanned in the rough.

TheExit148 wrote:to me Bill Kelso's original batch of the Stirated Lamb was the perfect leather for the Raiders jacket. The newer one is too grainy IMO.

I'm sure that one could request that their jacket not have as much grain than what is now used by standard. They are very obliging to whatever requests one may have.

Here's probably more screencaps than you'll ever need……a complete breakdown…

http://movie-screencaps.com/raiders-lost-ark-1981/

Here are the last two images that I had been looking for. Some had doubted the notion that DN took a knife to the Hero jacket, but it's possible to see laceration marks on the back panel, which may add some credibility to her story.

I wish I could see the newer BK stuff in person only cuz I've heard from several different sources that it is thinner than the first version. I love the first version I have but I could use a slightly thinner blend living in the humidity and heat down here. But if anything has more grain than what mine has, I would think it would not look as SA. And these pics are perfect for this type of investigation. I immediately began comparing to my jacket........
I guess maybe I need to get some work done instead, huh?
and just for sake of arguments, in that last shot hanging off the truck, the leather, TO ME, looks kinda thick or stiffer than any of my jackets. I know there is wind and stretching and other factors going on but, if it was thinner, you should still be able to make out his back underneath it.

Gorak wrote:I wish I could see the newer BK stuff in person only cuz I've heard from several different sources that it is thinner than the first version. I love the first version I have but I could use a slightly thinner blend living in the humidity and heat down here. But if anything has more grain than what mine has, I would think it would not look as SA. And these pics are perfect for this type of investigation. I immediately began comparing to my jacket........
I guess maybe I need to get some work done instead, huh?
and just for sake of arguments, in that last shot hanging off the truck, the leather, TO ME, looks kinda thick or stiffer than any of my jackets. I know there is wind and stretching and other factors going on but, if it was thinner, you should still be able to make out his back underneath it.

I just bought a a Kelso a like 2 months ago. I could take some close up pics/measurements of the thickness for you. I've never had the previous version but I can tell you its much thinner then my old Wested raiders custom.

Bdgsi11 wrote:Here's probably more screencaps than you'll ever need……a complete breakdown…

http://movie-screencaps.com/raiders-lost-ark-1981/

Ooooohhh...aaaaahhhhh....

It's reassuring to come back to this hobby after a few years hiatus and find that, despite there being a significantly increased range of jackets and accuracy to choose from that the quest continues as passionately as ever.

I've been in favor of jacket reproductions that were historically accurate to film, and to that goal, I believe that as time goes on, and as we move through different iterations of jackets, it really helps to go back to the source and to discern again, just what the jacket was. Mass production tends to mean that the specs deviate slightly over time, but here are a few things to watch out for:

An accurate Raiders repro. would have +/- 1" collar stand, collar should end at mid-portion of storm flap.
Width of the collar, around 3" or less for a Large (42-44).
Width of the storm flap & pocket flaps: the Raiders storm flap was a bit wider than the std. A-2.
Pocket flap scallops should never be pointed.
Thin yoke. The edges of the yoke at the seams were maybe 3" wide, per film. Usually, repro. yokes tend to get wider as time goes by.
Yoke & sleeve seams misaligned
Zip pull on the storm flap side

I believe that the width of the collar on the Hawaii & main jackets were probably about the same, its just that the Hawaii collar lays flat. The visual makes it seem wider. Tweak it to what you see.

TheExit148 wrote:I put all these together from the Blu-ray. Pretty sure they are all of the "Hero" jacket. You can view each one in full resolution too by clicking the gear on each pic to the right.

http://imgur.com/a/NE5k4#0

Great job!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Wow !! Thanks Texan Scott for al the info and pics, this really helps in selecting a jacket !!

...now, find yourself a nice jacket and....Post 'em UP!

Well, I have a used Wested I bought from a member here and I like it but not fitting for me (on certain things I really need to be fitted for, Wested's standard 40 is to short at the waist for me). I'll be sure to post pics as soon as I've made my selection !! You're knowledge and pics has helped greatly !!

I posed this in another thread, but this may be of help:

The best thing to do is to have someone get the chest, sleeve and back length measurements with tape. The proper sleeve measurement is from the mid-portion of the neck, with arm bent slightly to wrist. However, usually the sleeve measurement from the top of the sleeve seam (the place where the sleeve meets the shoulder) to the end of cuff is sufficient. Since the Indy jacket is basically waist length, then most people prefer a jacket that fits just below the beltline, about 1-2". Usually, a guy has a favorite suit or sport coat, and you can use it as a pretty good jumping off point, especially if the sleeves are the right length. Splitting hairs a little, the Indy jacket sleeve ends at the first knuckle of the thumb. Put on a comfortable shirt and have them measure from the bottom of the collar stand to say, an inch or two below the belt.

Bdgsi11 wrote:Here's probably more screencaps than you'll ever need……a complete breakdown…

http://movie-screencaps.com/raiders-lost-ark-1981/

Just WOW!

That's right! Thanks, you guys, for posting these stills and links! I have copied TheExit & Bdgsi11's links into the first post for future reference, so members will not have to read through all the posts to find them.

Tex, (and everyone who contributed to this thread), thanks for all this info! It's probably the most comprehensive reading and pictures I've seen with regards to the two main jackets in Raiders. And I've never seen these hi-res images before. Now I know what I want in both a Hawaii and a main hero jacket. Makes me want a 'South America' Kelso in grainy lamb. My S&J already scratched the 'Cairo'/Elstree/Kairouan itch!

Very informative for those of us who are either sleepy or have caffeine/ADD problems!

Had to add this because it is such an interesting still. Check out the hole in the front part of the map pocket. Looks like there were striations on the pockets too:

Great thread and I love the link with the blu-ray stills.

Thanks for sharing lads


Sent from my iPhone.

Thank you everybody for bringing in more screen shots !! I really appreciate them !!! Texan Scott, just to get back to your suggestion, here's what I'm doing... I already have a Wested Raiders jacket, I know the plus's and negatives and all I want to do is modify their satndard measurement to make their 40 work for me. I'm happy witht the shoulders and even sleeve length but it's to short and when I heave up in the front it comes up too high. I've already picked a hide, Dark Brown Goat, and I'd like to see what they say. I'd rather spend time going back and forth overseas with emails barring time zone differences and we'll see what we come up with. Any suggestions ?? Great thread !!! Keep it coming !!!

I have come to believe that there is a relationship between the width of the collar, storm flap and pocket flaps, and that these work together in order to sync the overall look. If any one of these are exaggerated or understated, then the jacket looks unbalanced.

Bdgsi11 wrote:Here's probably more screencaps than you'll ever need……a complete breakdown…

http://movie-screencaps.com/raiders-lost-ark-1981/

Holy Guacamole!!
Somebody had a lot of time on their hands.
If you spin your scroll-wheel fast enough, it's like watching the movie!

Now if we could just get some definitive Raiders holster photos (other than screencaps)...

I still don't see all that many striations in the film jacket. There are scrapes, wrinkles and some striations but much of the jacket still appears smooth to me.

CM wrote:I still don't see all that many striations in the film jacket. There are scrapes, wrinkles and some striations but much of the jacket still appears smooth to me.

Right there with you, CM. I'll say it again... if you haven't checked out the Bonus Disc of the Blu-ray set, you absolutely must. Check out "On set with Raiders of the Lost Ark," "From Jungle to Desert." There is a deleted scene where Indy pulls Satipo out of a pit that reveals a great deal about the jacket. You can see faintly the rib marks on the upper right chest, but the rest of the jacket is quite smooth. Also you can see that the rear side adjustment strap is quite short, as well as a fantastic view of the slider buckle. If I had the capability to do a screen capture I would. It is the best and most clear view of the jacket I've seen on film.

That would make a solid addition to this thread!

Texan Scott wrote:Had to add this because it is such an interesting still. Check out the hole in the front part of the map pocket. Looks like there were striations on the pockets too:

The striations are a bit like varicose veins you can see them in this picture, if you know what to look for. They are horizontal across the body panel (Indy's r) and also across the pockets.

I wonder whether Wested's crispe is a good way to go for that sort of look. So many options these days it's hard to keep track!!
I'd like something in a dark brown with some texture and character. Todd's look nice, but his sizing is unrealistic for me which is why I prefer Wested. Not sure Wested has a suitable hide though. I liked the look of the dark novapelle but it was just SO heavy I never wore it.

Moses,

In my opinion, Wested's "crispe lamb" is a bit "over the top" as far as grain goes (sort of like the Nowak "dino-hide" SL).
The leather used on the latest batch of Todd's really have nailed the look of the film jacket, but, I know what you mean about their sizing.

Another option from Wested that I really like was their Soft Goat. It has a lot of grain/character, distresses wonderfully and is super tough.
It starts off a little stiff feeling, but, wear and liberal coatings of Lexol fixes that.

Thanks - has anyone posted pics of this new soft goat with grain. The goat I once had years ago was impossible to distress!!

I expect the soft goat is probably more in the ballpark of what you want, it has the lightness and softness. It may be a bit shiny to start with.

For grain and initial 'leatheriness' for want of a better word, the shrunk lamb is good. The only problem is that it can look almost walnut coloured in certain light. See the comparison with a couple of other leathers:





(DB lambtouch Cow, Shrunk Lamb, Authentic Brown Lamb).

Maybe see if you can get them to send you a sample of the shrunk and the light goat.

Kt Templar wrote:I expect the soft goat is probably more in the ballpark of what you want, it has the lightness and softness. It may be a bit shiny to start with.

For grain and initial 'leatheriness' for want of a better word, the shrunk lamb is good. The only problem is that it can look almost walnut coloured in certain light. See the comparison with a couple of other leathers:




(DB lambtouch Cow, Shrunk Lamb, Authentic Brown Lamb).

Great shot. Thanks for posting it