Club Obi Wan

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I refer to the experience and knowledge of you all to school me on this issue. My search function refuses to work tonight. I'm going up to Frisco in March and plan on hitting up the Alden shop. My questions are as follows:

What exactly are the difference between the 403 and 405? It is my understanding that one is an orthopedic and the other is a normal sole. Am I correct on this?

Also, what is the opinion of the rugged 404's? Is this boot too dark and sole too different to be considered an Indy boot?

Is the J Crew Alden 405 well regarded on this board?

Thank you in advanced. I just want to be confident in my purchase when I leave the store. All comments and opinions will be appreciated.

Basically, the 403 and the 405 are the same boot, except for the leather. The 405 is the regular tanned calf I believe and the 403 is the 'Horween' chromexel tanned leather, which I think is also calf, but I'm not sure. They both have an orthopedic HEEL and are both on the Trubalance last.

The 404's are also referred to as Indy boots but have a Vibram lug sole and aren't 'screen accurate' for that reason. They also have a 360 degree welt around the back of the heel which a proper Indy boot will not. But I prefer my 404's in the snow and the leather of the 404 is treated well to repel moisture. They're dark in color, too dark to be screen accurate by most folks.

I think the J Crews are similar to the 403's with the exception of some added stitching. I've never seen an actual pair and have too many Indy boots already to justify buying more!

All are leather lined these days. If you're like me, you'll want a pair of every variation they have! Just get what you like the most--your satisfaction is all that really matters.

Hope that helps!

Chromexcel is a bark tanned, hot stuffed pull-up leather. Horween makes it in both cowhide and horsehide. I believe Alden uses horsehide Chromexcel for their 403 boot.

There is a significant difference in weight and feel between the leather used for 405s and 403s, the latter generally feeling more "substantial" for want of a better word.

The 404 uses and oiled leather, Alden calls their "Kudu leather" and has a heavy Vibram type sole, while the 403 has what Alden refers to as their "Commando Sole" which is a lugged rubber and leather sole. Both are different from the neoprene/cork sole used on the 405.

The 405 used to be lined in canvas and the 403 in leather. I believe they are both leather lined now.

Those, and the price are the differences I can recall.

Misfit,

I know you didn't ask this question specifically, but if screen accuracy becomes a consideration, the 403's are considered by many to be closest production boot in color to the original medium-brown Indy boot.

As you can tell, current 405's have more of a reddish-brown color, which is also seen in Raiders during the truck chase scene, (probably worn by a stuntman). 405's were the original Indy boot model number, but the color has gone through a number of changes over the decades, leaving Indy fans frustrated trying to match the original 'Hero' boot.

J. Crew confuses things even further by labeling the 403 with additional stitching as their "405".

RR, I didn't know the 403 (dark or natural) was horse hide. Since they're aniline dyed, I'd be interested to know how the natural chromexel boot is so light in color. I have several pair of Indy boot variants that are horse hide, but they are made of the shell portion of the hide, which is stiff.

I can say the standard 403 is NOT a commando sole,unless it's a VERY recent change. I have 2 pairs of 403's and neither have them. The soles are identical to my 405's.

I do have 2 or 3 pair of chromexel Indy boots that DO have commando soles, which are leather soles with lugs sewn on (and they are awesome!) but they are special makeups from Leather Soul and Leffot. I also have a pair from Shoemart in tobacco chamois with the commando sole. They may even be an exclusive. There are numerous others made up for special shops. They don't call them 403's, though. 403 may be in the model number somewhere, along with more numbers.

Alden's stock shoe website shows only the 2 soles, the standard on the 405(brown), 403 (chromexel, both colors), 401(black), and then the Vibram 404 sole. But the San Francisco store, as you may know by now, may have their own special makeups on hand.

I agree that the 403's (dark, not natural) may be the most screen accurate color of the stock offerings.

I'm not an expert on these, but I have about 15 pairs of these Indy boots in different variants from different shops, and I still see new offerings all the time. I'm currently waiting on a pair of black aniline boots with commando soles from Alden of Carmel, but I don't even know if the order will be placed, and it's been a long time already.

Thank you all for these incredibly informative replies. It gives me a lot to think about concerning leather colors and soles. I believe I'm leaning more towards the 403's and for practical purposes may have to get the commando sole. Looking forward to trying them out at Aldens.

Misfit, also, if you go with a boot with a Vibram or commando sole, or even a leather sole, you lose that orthopedic heel. The standard sole is cork rubber.

Leffot has the brown calf boot, like a standard 405, only with a commando sole, which I think looks awesome. Not screen accurate, but nice.

These are all nice boots, but pricey. Try on some and buy what you like. I'd say you can't go wrong unless you buy the wrong size. Let the sales guy measure both feet, and start with the size that's the larger of your 2 feet. A sales guy (Alden, and a member here) told me that usually the left foot is larger. I had no idea.

If you throw enough dirt on any of these, they'd all look screen accurate!

I'd be surprised (pleasantly) if you find 403's with a commando sole in stock. In my experiences boot hunting, that's a special makeup boot. That would be the same boot as Leather Soul Hawaii's 'Ultimate Indy' boot, I believe, which they offered in a few leathers and colors. They are hard to come by, new, but do come up on auction sites from time to time. Keep in mind a commando sole, as far as the four pairs I have, anyway, are only rubber on the lug portion that touches the ground. It is otherwise a full leather sole, and must be cared for accordingly, or they'll dry out and warp from excessive moisture exposure. The cork and the Vibram soles are less maintenance.

The Unionmade website has some beautiful Indy boot variants, as well.

Illinois James wrote:The Unionmade website has some beautiful Indy boot variants, as well.

Thanks for the tip!

Illinois James wrote:RR, I didn't know the 403 (dark or natural) was horse hide.

I can say the standard 403 is NOT a commando sole,unless it's a VERY recent change. I have 2 pairs of 403's and neither have them. The soles are identical to my 405's.

I do have 2 or 3 pair of chromexel Indy boots that DO have commando soles, which are leather soles with lugs sewn on (and they are awesome!) but they are special makeups from Leather Soul and Leffot.

I could well be wrong about the Chromexcel boots being horsehide. I either heard that or read it somewhere. It does seem consistent with the overall feel of the leather which is much heavier and stiffer.

You're correct about the soles. I have a natural colored pair that have the neoprene cork sole and a dark pair (Leather Sole's Ultimates) with the commando sole. I had forgotten that the natural ones had the original sole.

RR, I don't know much about the tanning. Horween is just a few miles from me and I'd like to check out what they do but I don't know if they give 'tours' or what. There are some caustic processes involved and they have to meet strict EPA regulations, I do know that.

The website says that the chromexel can be cow or horse, but the little graphic they have shows the shell coming from the horse (of course!), and the chromexel coming from cow sides. But chromexel apparently includes a wide variety of finishes and colors. They do mention a chromexel 'boot leather', but they don't specify what hide it is. I have no idea what color horsehide is when it's 'in the blue', or whatever. I know I like chromexel, but it is easy to scuff, and not very colorfast.

I think the main problem Misfit will have is finding enough pairs of his size in each finish/leather to try on in store. At least he can dial in his size, and then search online with confidence. Hopefully the SF store will be stocked well. No need for him to settle for a color that's not his favorite choice. I hope I'm wrong!

Illinois James wrote:I know I like chromexel, but it is easy to scuff, and not very colorfast.

Perfect!

Tundrarider wrote:

Misfit13 wrote:Ladies and Gentlemen,

I refer to the experience and knowledge of you all to school me on this issue. I'm going up to Frisco in March and plan on hitting up the Alden shop. All comments and opinions will be appreciated.

The best advice I can give is this: don't refer to San Francisco as "Frisco" when speaking with the locals. They don't like it. I learned this tidbit from my mom when I was a kid as she grew up in that area.

I guess this prohibition grew on me and transferred over to other areas in my life. As a San Diegan, I cringe when folks refer to the city as "Diego." Or Southern California as SoCal...

Another cringe worthy moment for me is hearing our beloved "Expedition" referred to as the "Expo!" This jacket is well deserving of it's given name and anyhow, Expo is short for Exposition!

Michael

Amen to all of the above and do not -- repeat -- do not call "San Antonio," "San Antone!!!!!!!!!!" W>

Well, after a lot of reading on this board and surfing Alden's website a ton, I've decided on getting the 405's. I like the way the leather looks on that model. And yes, Tundra, I was amiss in calling the city "Frisco". I have never used that word while in the city and since my girl is from San Diego, I know that to call it anything but its proper name is an utter sin! But, thank you sir for the reminder

Just got an email from Shoemart that most if not all of the Alden's are going up in price February 1, so, act soon!

Dude, really?! Thank you for the heads up. Maybe I can get my foot fitted at one of the Alden distributor stores this week and order some before the first. Here's to trying anyway....

Tundrarider wrote:Another cringe worthy moment for me is hearing our beloved "Expedition" referred to as the "Expo!" This jacket is well deserving of it's given name and anyhow, Expo is short for Exposition!

Michael

FYI, Michael, those of us who were involved in its creation, including the folks at G&B, commonly referred to it as the 'Expo' because it took less time to type in emails and phone messages/texts that were flying back and forth while we worked on the project.

Sorry, but in my case I will continue to occasionally call it the 'Expo', if for nothing else but out of sheer habit.

You may cringe, but you really don't need to. Expo was/is a honorable name and used extensively by its creators during its creation.

Regards! Michaelson

Yeah. We tried that. It didn't work.



Regards! M

Well I bit the bullet and went to my local Alden retailer in Newport Beach not too far from me. The store is Gary's. Nice place and helpful staff. Anyway, I bought the 405's and they are nice!
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Thank you all for your post and guiding me in the right direction

They look great! Cant wait for mine ordered the Adventurebilt Aldens should arrive in march

They look superb. Pure quality. I think I need to get a pair.....

Thanks for the informative thread everyone.


Sent from my iPhone.

Thank you Chuck! I'm looking forward to the pics of you AB's!

Thanks Pete! Seeing pics from the other guys is one thing, but seeing and wearing them in person, and I'm just amazed at the craftmanship. You won't be disappointed!

yeah, absolutely love my 405's...hopefully I'm not snowed in too long and can wear them this year.