Club Obi Wan

Looking for some insight from the forum.
I've decided on the Raiders block by AB, however I am still unsure about which felt to go with. Not to open too much of a can of worms... what are the pros/cons of the felts?

Well, other than the cost... ;-)

Beaver is a denser felt. More durable, more water resistant, a more luxurious feel (though I suppose that's subjective).

Rabbit breathes better and tends to look...floppier. The original Raiders hat was rabbit felt. The hats Steve Delk made for CS were beaver.

I'm sure other, more experienced folks will chime in any minute...


Michael

I'm not entirely sure that rabbit is more breathable to be honest..I have several hats, both beaver and rabbit, and the beaver ones are the ones I feel more comfortable in when Japanese summer kicks off...They don't feel as hot to me...(It could have something to do with the lining though?)..

Also, since receiving a Penman Raiders, I've had to rethink my opinions about the "floppiness" of beaver too....John told me he uses less stiffener and the combination is (while certainly less floppy than rabbit) not far off the rabbit hats that I own....Not far at all...

Given a choice between rabbit and beaver, and considering the price factor wasn't an issue, I wouldn't chose rabbit anymore...The beaver hats I have look great, feel great, stay solid in all the weather I've served them with so far, and last longer without the need of a re-block....So, not many "downsides" to beaver at all....

Rabbit is a touch floppier...(Whether that's a plus or not is up to the owner), cheaper (which is about the only real plus point I can see), and pounced properly looks decent enough for sure..But if I had a choice and money was no issue, I'd go with beaver because it'll last better, look finer, feel better, and provide the best you can buy for your cash...

In my opinion...Beaver everytime..

The amount of stiffener in the felt is the biggest driver in how floppy a hat will be regardless of rabbit or beaver. I have a rabbit felt cowboy hat from Peters Brothers that I could use for a spare tire if needed and the sahara colored beaver AB I have has broken in so nicely it's as floppy in a stiff wind as anything you'll see in ROLA.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

IMHO if, you really want the Raiders look, you should go for rabbit. I have one of John's rabbit hats and the thickness seems closer to a vintage hat. Today's beaver hats are a bit thicker than what would have been used in the Raiders hat. That will affect the floppiness factor as well.

Additionally, as everyone else has said; although John's rabbit felt is of high quality, all other things being equal, a beaver hat will be more resilient towards the elements, and will last longer before needing a reblock.

I have a SD AB in beaver for 5 years and it is excellent !!! Holds it's shape, weather resistant, and I wear it hot or cold (mostly hot, very hot in the south Florida summers here) and is very comfortable. I'm not knocking rabbitt just don't recall having a rabbit fedora. I've had Peters Bros. Indy Custom fedoras both in Raiders trim and they were very rigid, 1st was purchased in 2003 then the 2nd purchased in 2007 the first was very nice but unfortunately was slightly too small and I sold it on Ebay the 2nd fit right but had a poor shape, I recently gave it away ( the differences in the shaping/turning of the two hats was drastic). Maybe someone here can tell me what the PB Indy Custom fedoras are made of, rabbitt ??

PB hats are made from Winchester felt....the same felt Steve uses for his AB hats.

That said, they make their customs out of rabbit, rabbit/beaver blend, and beaver. Your call.

The amount of air movement through a felt is dictated by the densitiy of the felt, and also (as Jeff says above) the amount of stiffner is applied to the felt.

In the case of the stiff PB hat, it will be tighter than a soft PB hat, regardless of felt, due to the extra laquer applied to stiffen the hat that will plug the fibers of the felt. So, in comparison, a soft rabbit will be a bit cooler than a stiff rabbit due to the extra material applied in the blocking process.

I have owned stiff AND soft rabbit PB's, and in my personal experience the soft rabbit is cooler.....but in really warm weather situations I also remove the liner for more air circulation around the old cranium. The more material you have between your had and the outside just adds to the amount of heat that builds up in the crown. It's not just the heat outside the hat, but the amount that builds up INSIDE as well.

That said, when I wear a felt hat in hot weather, I actually wear a thin prototype AB beaver with no liner and vent holds punched in the side of the crown as was the practice back in the 1930's.

Regards! Michaelson

My oldest Penman is beaver felt and is just as soft and "floppy" as my Cairo, which is rabbit. BUT the beaver felt Raiders I got from Steve earlier this year is even softer than the Penman.
I've never seen anything like it in a modern hat and I've been a hat guy for over 40 years. If you can swing it, buy the beaver felt. You'll never regret that you did.

Come to think of it I think I did order my PBs in rabbitt, I ordered these over 6 plus years ago can't remember everything.

Ridgerunner58 wrote:If you can swing it, buy the beaver felt. You'll never regret that you did.

I second this, and I've worn hats for just as long, so you have two votes for sure on this point.

Regards! Michaelson

Thank you all for the insight. I have been leaning toward the beaver felt from the beginning but knowing that the original Raiders hat was rabbit gave me pause. I am going to go with my gut and your recommendations and order the beaver felt version. Thanks again!

To add to the mix, beaver hats made from Winchester felt (as are Steves, Johns AND PBs) are practically indestructible and can be rebuilt over and over again.

Just top quality stuff and WELL worth the investment, as you'll go through several rabbit hats before you ever start to 'wear out' a good beaver felt hat.

Good choice!

Regards! Michaelson

Amen !!

I agree with the general consensus that between the two, beaver-felt is sturdier and more durable. But I would add that a rabbit-felt Adventurebilt fedora isn't going to turn into a cone-shaped hat at the first sign of rain or wear and tear, either. I have a 5-year-old Crystal Skull beaver-felt AB that's been on 3 seasons of excavations in Israel, and actually just received a new Raiders rabbit-felt AB from Steve, too, and both are high-quality hats. Between the two, the rabbit does seem to breath better and seems cooler in hot weather IMHO, but then again I've only had it for not quite a week. Here's a photo comparing the two hats:



The 5-year old AB CS in beaver is on the left, while my new AB Raiders in rabbit is on the right. Both were originally the same dark brown color, but you can see that CS AB has been under a lot of harsh sunlight.

You should also consider how you'll be wearing your hat, too. I wore my beaver-felt Adventurebilt really hard--in deserts, on archaeological excavations, on the family ranch, and nearly everyday. It got a bit sun-bleached, scraped, squashed, blown-off, drenched, etc., and I'm glad for the beaver-felt in those circumstances. But most of the rest of the time for everyday usage, I'm sure my new rabbit-felt AB will do great.

So if money is a concern, there's certainly nothing wrong with a rabbit-felt Adventurebilt by any means, IMHO.

Best wishes,
Dr. Nebraska S.

Since this post was SPECIFICALLY about AB felt comparisons, and the concern about heat retention came up, on February 24, 2010, Steve Delk said on this topic:

So the old timers felt that if you were in a desert, you better have a hat! And he was talking about felt hats. While they may be hot, the protection from the sun is what is important. You are gonna sweat anyways! A wet hat, soaked in sweat will help cool the head, by evaporation.

For me, I wear felt hats year round. And I live in hot and humid Mississippi. I do find though, that loosely felted rabbit fur hats seem to be a bit cooler, over pure beaver.

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So, in HIS opinion, HIS rabbit felt hats would be cooler due to being loosely felted as compared to his beaver felt.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:...on February 24, 2010, Steve Delk said on this topic:

So the old timers felt that if you were in a desert, you better have a hat! And he was talking about felt hats. While they may be hot, the protection from the sun is what is important. You are gonna sweat anyways! A wet hat, soaked in sweat will help cool the head, by evaporation.

For me, I wear felt hats year round. And I live in hot and humid Mississippi. I do find though, that loosely felted rabbit fur hats seem to be a bit cooler, over pure beaver.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40690&p=655841&hili ... er#p655841" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards! Michaelson

I plan on wearing mine as much as possible, unless work demands a hard hat... Hmmmm wonder if I can get a hard hat in a ROLA or CS style? Anyway, I too live in the hot and humid climate of SE Texas. Houston to be more specific. I have an Akubra Cattlemen that I am breaking in and planning on modifying a bit. Trim the brim, adjust the crown height and tighten the pinch. It's a very nice hat but it is time to step up to the big leagues, Indy style!

The Cattleman is a nice hat. But assuming you pick up one of Steve's hats - especially a beaver felt Raiders - your Akubra will quickly become a relic of your past. Nice as they are, there is just nothing you can do to an Akubra to put it in the same league comfort or appearance wise as a custom Adventurebilt or Penman.

Dr. Nebraska S. wrote:I agree with the general consensus that between the two, beaver-felt is sturdier and more durable. But I would add that a rabbit-felt Adventurebilt fedora isn't going to turn into a cone-shaped hat at the first sign of rain or wear and tear, either. I have a 5-year-old Crystal Skull beaver-felt AB that's been on 3 seasons of excavations in Israel, and actually just received a new Raiders rabbit-felt AB from Steve, too, and both are high-quality hats. Between the two, the rabbit does seem to breath better and seems cooler in hot weather IMHO, but then again I've only had it for not quite a week. Here's a photo comparing the two hats:



The 5-year old AB CS in beaver is on the left, while my new AB Raiders in rabbit is on the right. Both were originally the same dark brown color, but you can see that CS AB has been under a lot of harsh sunlight.

You should also consider how you'll be wearing your hat, too. I wore my beaver-felt Adventurebilt really hard--in deserts, on archaeological excavations, on the family ranch, and nearly everyday. It got a bit sun-bleached, scraped, squashed, blown-off, drenched, etc., and I'm glad for the beaver-felt in those circumstances. But most of the rest of the time for everyday usage, I'm sure my new rabbit-felt AB will do great.

So if money is a concern, there's certainly nothing wrong with a rabbit-felt Adventurebilt by any means, IMHO.

Best wishes,
Dr. Nebraska S.

Well worn and cared for! Great lookings hats Dr Nebraska S.!