Club Obi Wan

IndyOriginal wrote:Thanks for the info Michaelson. Yeah, thankfully I only work in DC, but live in VA. Owning a firearm in the District is either still illegal, or a major headache. Haven't looked into that can of worms for awhile now.

micsteam wrote:Yes, if you look, what does the average M1917 S&W go for... around $800 apprx. or slightly more right ?? OK, take into account that most .455 and .45 rim cartridge (or lc ... correct me if I'm wrong) revolvers were cut down to accept the .45 ACP, it was a general practice at the time, which also reduces the value. Again, still uncommon to rare, to have a excellent conditon or very good condition (safely fireable) .455 Ely S&W HE2 (which most in this caliber had an 6.5" barrel) under $850-$1600 is rare or has issues. Just my two cents

1. The operating pressure for the Mark VI Webley revolver (the last, and strongest, of the .455 Webley service revolvers) was a maximum of 13,200 PSI (i.e. six 'long tons' of 2200 lbs).

2. The standard operating pressure generated by milspec and full factory loads of .45 ACP ball ammunition is 19,000 PSI.

3. The pressure of .45 ACP milspec and standard factory loads exceeds the proof load for the Mark VI Webley revolver.

4. The dimensions of the chamber throats on Webley service revolvers are a bit variable, but generally are smaller than bore diameter for some reason - but this system worked well with the original hollowbase bullet design, which was quite soft (20/1 lead/tin) and non-jacketed. These soft bullets swage down passing through the chamber throat (.... my own view is that this was intentional, to get the most out of the relatively small powder charge, and thus maximize the velocity produced ....) but then the base expands nicely to engage the rifling in the bore. However, the general consensus is that jacketed bullets (such as those loaded in most GI-spec .45ACP ammo) can work to dramatically increase the already excessive chamber pressure generated by such rounds.

5. Furthermore, the earlier models of .455 Webley service revolver were not as strong as the Mark VI. Indeed, the Mark I, Mark II and Mark III revolvers (and the WG) were in fact designed for black powder loads.

Although it cannot be denied that many .455 Webley revolvers have survived being subjected for a long time to standard .45 ACP ammunition, that is equivalent to having been fed a steady diet of proof loads. Simply put, it is a testament to the sturdiness of Webley service revolvers, but can hardly be considered either safe or advisable!

Failures can - and do - happen! For example, here is one altered Webley Mark VI which suffered a catastrophic failure firing .45 ACP ammunition -

You may be wondering what you can do with a .455 revolver altered to take .45 ACP cartridges. Fortunately, if otherwise still sound, the revolver should be quite safe to fire using .45 ACP (or .45 Auto Rim) cases with non-jacketed bullets and reloaded to .455 levels.

Rook wrote:I'd caution you about shooting .45ACP through a Webley though. Seen some pics where the barrel failed due to
the pressure differences. Scary stuff. Cracks though the thickest parts, bulges that deformed the metal,
cracked cylinders, etc.

The .45 ACP JHP comes out at about 210 PSI (/100) at 1,055 fps.

Near as I can find, the .455 comes out at about 140 PSI (/100) @ 750-900 fps. Also, the .455 _was_
a black powder cartridge, where the .45 ACP is smokeless, so the .455 is going to be a less powerful round.


EDIT: Found some more info on the following site: http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/ ... 5-Auto-Rim

1. The operating pressure for the Mark VI Webley revolver (the last, and strongest, of the .455 Webley service revolvers) was a maximum of 13,200 PSI (i.e. six 'long tons' of 2200 lbs).

2. The standard operating pressure generated by milspec and full factory loads of .45 ACP ball ammunition is 19,000 PSI.

3. The pressure of .45 ACP milspec and standard factory loads exceeds the proof load for the Mark VI Webley revolver.

4. The dimensions of the chamber throats on Webley service revolvers are a bit variable, but generally are smaller than bore diameter for some reason - but this system worked well with the original hollowbase bullet design, which was quite soft (20/1 lead/tin) and non-jacketed. These soft bullets swage down passing through the chamber throat (.... my own view is that this was intentional, to get the most out of the relatively small powder charge, and thus maximize the velocity produced ....) but then the base expands nicely to engage the rifling in the bore. However, the general consensus is that jacketed bullets (such as those loaded in most GI-spec .45ACP ammo) can work to dramatically increase the already excessive chamber pressure generated by such rounds.

5. Furthermore, the earlier models of .455 Webley service revolver were not as strong as the Mark VI. Indeed, the Mark I, Mark II and Mark III revolvers (and the WG) were in fact designed for black powder loads.

Although it cannot be denied that many .455 Webley revolvers have survived being subjected for a long time to standard .45 ACP ammunition, that is equivalent to having been fed a steady diet of proof loads. Simply put, it is a testament to the sturdiness of Webley service revolvers, but can hardly be considered either safe or advisable!

Failures can - and do - happen! For example, here is one altered Webley Mark VI which suffered a catastrophic failure firing .45 ACP ammunition -

You may be wondering what you can do with a .455 revolver altered to take .45 ACP cartridges. Fortunately, if otherwise still sound, the revolver should be quite safe to fire using .45 ACP (or .45 Auto Rim) cases with non-jacketed bullets and reloaded to .455 levels.

The site link above also has pictures of a MKVI that suffered a CATASTROPHIC FAILURE when firing .45 ACP.

So, again, stay cautious my friends.

Lee Keppler wrote:Saw a Second Model HE .455 with the chamber deepened to accept .45 Colt with 6 1/2" barrel and the proper grips at the Big Reno Show a couple of weeks ago. $1800.00. It was there Friday but was gone by Sat. Having the chamber deepened ruins the collector's value and it still went.

Lee Keppler wrote:Saw a Second Model HE .455 with the chamber deepened to accept .45 Colt with 6 1/2" barrel and the proper grips at the Big Reno Show a couple of weeks ago. $1800.00. It was there Friday but was gone by Sat. Having the chamber deepened ruins the collector's value and it still went.