If YOU could remake the "Dorfman"

[Geno]

A quick glance at these forums (or that of ANY self-respecting Indy gearhead) would tell someone that the Dorfman Pacific hats are not worth it in terms of representing the Indiana Jones fedora. From hat pins, brown ribbons and inaccurate proportions to C-crown dents and crappy felt, the Dorfman exists mainly as a cheap hat to sell to tourists at Disneyland, not as a serious hat for normal wear. This point has been hammered in and beaten to death, to the point where it should be obvious to anyone who does a bit of research into what kind of Indy fedora to get.



Now for a purely hypothetical situation:

What if you were given the chance to create a different design for the DP Fedora?

How would you try to improve it, while still keeping in mind that the purpose of the hat is to have a cheap thing to sell to tourists rather than as a serious investment in headwear?

[Michaelson]

You pretty much nailed all the points in your question.....just get rid of:

....the hat pins, brown ribbons and inaccurate proportions to C-crown dents and crappy felt

Replace them with good ribbon, correct proportions, correct bash and good felt.

That's about it.

Problem is, once you do that, you are no longer at the price point that a cheap Dorfman offers, so there's no real middle ground in my opinion.



Regards !Michaelson

[Geno]

Yeah, I think that for one, the ribbon would be far better as BLACK ribbon. Not SA, but better than the current brown ribbon.


I doubt DP would use higher quality felt.... which is kind of a shame really.

But I do think that altering the block/proportions and changing the factory bash could also go a long way in making them look better.

[wilbyc82]

The Dorfman was my first Indy hat, bought at Disney in Florida in 2005. At the time, I thought the hat was great. However, with a little research, I recognised the inaccuracies.
Here is a RARE shot of the hat:lol:


My interpretation was that the hat's crown was closest to the TOD look.....low and tapered. I would have preferred a Raiders bash. To appeal to the masses, there would be no turn to standardise the look. The pin badge should be a no-no.



Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

[BendingOak]

If you change most of that you would drive the price up. It's the number one selling hat and it's made of @#$% and looks like @#$%. For the most part, people couldn't tell a good hat from a great hat.

[fifthchamber]

I second (Or "fifth"?) all the opinions here...Getting rid of it would be my call..

Buuuut...For the sake of the thread, I'd say, if you wanted to "improve" it, just make the bash front to back centre dent, and change the colour of the band to something darker brown/black...

That wouldn't affect the cost, but it would be "closer" to what is seen on screen...

Of course, the hat's still junk, and not worth any money at all..But..It would work better for kids that way, and you'd not raise the price, or lower it....So, that's your answer..

Of course....I'd still say burn em' all!!

But..Since you wanted the thread to be answered...That's my call on it.

[BendingOak]

It would drive the cost up. They use pre creased blocks like panama blocks to make these hat. To change the crease they would need to change their sets of blocks. A darker shade of brown ribbon would cost them more because they would have to custom order the color from the maker because that maker and most don't make them. It would be a price increase.

[wilbyc82]

But these hats were never intended to anything more than a gift for the tourists. I paid in the region of £50 for mine 8 years ago. All these nice to have additions would drive the cost up and the economics would fail.

The hat serves well as a fancy dress piece. To costume enthusiasts and gearhands the hat is an epic fail.

I suppose the question regarding the shape and crown style to ask has to go to the general public. Which hat shape suits a generic Indy look?

Whilst many of us strive to achieve the perfect Raiders look, many folk, without a bias view may prefer the LC or TOD crown and bash. Whilst fans of the franchise are the target market for these hats, the same had to have some appeal to the mainstream public. At first glance and purchase I thought these hats were cool.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

[fifthchamber]

It would drive the cost up. They use pre creased blocks like panama blocks to make these hat. To change the crease they would need to change their sets of blocks. A darker shade of brown ribbon would cost them more because they would have to custom order the color from the maker because that maker and most don't make them. It would be a price increase.

That just goes to reinforce the idea that if we "could" do it, we wouldn't.....

I agree entirely...I'd not considered the change over costs, and perhaps they'd be ok with "just another" black coloured ribbon (wrong, I know..But this is Dorfman, what do they care about "Indy-like"? Black is "fine" for em' I suspect..), but John's right..The block shape change over would raise the cost even if the band was common...

They're all best burnt.

[Texan Scott]

You would need better quality, thin felt and a good block. Cotton/rayon ribbon, comfortable sweat band, which it may have already. Felt and block are the mainstays.

[BendingOak]

THE DP offering doesn't come close to any of the hats. Come on it really is a joke. Who ever set it up drop the ball. If they set it up from the start they could have gotten it a lot closer and the price would have been the same.

[ChrisMD]

No joke, mine looks better. I have messed with the brim and pinch and aside from color it almost looks like a semi temple of doom hat. I got it in Disney World but i doesnt look like it says Dorfman anywhere on it. Soft as sandpaper

[ChrisMD]

[Hollowpond]

Well, realistically, DP is a business who likes to make LOTS of money, and I suspect they have done just that. The $400 hat market is a niche market and while it (apparently) is able to support an individual. It is most unlikely to support a company.

I can imagine a meeting in a board room at DP. The topic WAS NOT "how can we give the fans a faithful replica" it was "how can we exploit the ever loving tar out of this Indiana Jones guy"

And (even though no one wants to hear it) the uneducated public can tell little difference. I remember I dressed as Indy for my wife's Pediatric hospital trick or treat and someone else was dressed as Indy as well. Their costume (in my eyes) was atrocious!!! And yet the comment I got over and over and over was, "if you guys switch hats your costume would be perfect!"

I was wearing a Penman LC, they were wearing a DP...

[BendingOak]

Well, realistically, DP is a business who likes to make LOTS of money, and I suspect they have done just that. The $400 hat market is a niche market and while it (apparently) is able to support an individual. It is most unlikely to support a company.

I can imagine a meeting in a board room at DP. The topic WAS NOT "how can we give the fans a faithful replica" it was "how can we exploit the ever loving tar out of this Indiana Jones guy"

And (even though no one wants to hear it) the uneducated public can tell little difference. I remember I dressed as Indy for my wife's Pediatric hospital trick or treat and someone else was dressed as Indy as well. Their costume (in my eyes) was atrocious!!! And yet the comment I got over and over and over was, "if you guys switch hats your costume would be perfect!"

I was wearing a Penman LC, they were wearing a DP...

You hit the bail on the head. It was sent to the factory and they just grabbed their cheapes felt, stock ribbon and what ever creased block they had that was close enough ( and I say that gritting my teeth). You will be shocked to know that the same company can produce good qualirpty hats. I have found out these past few years that there is a scale on which a factory works. It all depends on how much you want to spend.

[BendingOak]

You did a good job creasing that hat but it's not a TOD hat. Just because it has a lot of tapper to it doesn't make it a TOD hat. The TOD hat wasn't that tapppered. Compaired to most hats it has very little tapper to it. I think too many focus in on the cockpit scene and that hat was crushed my Willie and never fixed. It was not in it's true shape in that scene.

[Indiana Jeff]

And (even though no one wants to hear it) the uneducated public can tell little difference. I remember I dressed as Indy for my wife's Pediatric hospital trick or treat and someone else was dressed as Indy as well. Their costume (in my eyes) was atrocious!!! And yet the comment I got over and over and over was, "if you guys switch hats your costume would be perfect!"

I was wearing a Penman LC, they were wearing a DP...

Tell me about it Like how most of the viewing public won't know they replaced the hat at the Hollywood Wax Museum.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Mark Brody]

Here's one thing that wouldn't add to the costs of the hat that would dramatically improve it's value - make it open crown on an accurate block. They could, of course market the hat with the bashes added into it, but ship it open crown. Since most people looking for a quality souvenir won't know how to shape hats, go ahead and slip a card under the sweatband (something large enough that it won't go unnoticed) with instructions for how to shape the hat. Offset the cost of printing the cards and the need for an employee to stuff it in the sweat by eliminating the pin on the ribbon. As far as the ribbon color is concerned, DP makes a lot of these hats, and I don't know if the source the ribbon from somewhere else or if they make it themselves. If they make it themselves, it would cost nothing (aside from the initial startup costs) to make the correct color. If they source it from somewhere else, like I said, they make a lot of these hats - it's possible there would be enough demand for that color ribbon that it would not cost more than the current ribbon. If it does raise the price, they could always just go with black.

[Michaelson]

I have to admit, one of the nicest Dorfman's I ever saw was owned by Indiana Texas-girl (ITG) who had one reblocked at Peters Brothers. It was a nice looking job after they were done.

That's ITG with her Dorfman on the left in this photo.



Regards! Michaelson

[jlee562]

It's all in the block, really. The main 'center dent' block used by Dorfman and Hatco/Stetson doesn't look anything like the Indy crease. Given that we're simply not going to see a return of the hand creased hat, especially for a merchandise item, they need a different block. The one that PanamaBob uses on his Indiana model would be such an improvement:


The other issue to think about though, is that increasing the crown height and using a more accurate and less tapered block makes the hat a bit more daunting. Most of us experienced a little 'hat anxiety' the first time we put our accurate Indy lids on, or had our significant others say that they look like cowboy hats, etc. The proportions of the current Dorfman are very friendly to a wide variety of face shapes. From a marketing standpoint, if someone tried on a 'more accurate' hat and got a "that looks like a cowboy hat!" comment, they'd be less apt to purchase, I would think so anyways.

[ChrisMD]

You did a good job creasing that hat but it's not a TOD hat. Just because it has a lot of tapper to it doesn't make it a TOD hat. The TOD hat wasn't that tapppered. Compaired to most hats it has very little tapper to it. I think too many focus in on the cockpit scene and that hat was crushed my Willie and never fixed. It was not in it's true shape in that scene.

good point ill have to dig up the movie and examine more closely. (not like i need an excuse to watch an Indy movie) Also thanks for the compliment on the crease. honestly now that i have a real handmade fedora this one looks like an old mafia or gangster movie hat.

[Forrest For the Trees]

The other issue to think about though, is that increasing the crown height and using a more accurate and less tapered block makes the hat a bit more daunting. Most of us experienced a little 'hat anxiety' the first time we put our accurate Indy lids on, or had our significant others say that they look like cowboy hats, etc. The proportions of the current Dorfman are very friendly to a wide variety of face shapes. From a marketing standpoint, if someone tried on a 'more accurate' hat and got a "that looks like a cowboy hat!" comment, they'd be less apt to purchase, I would think so anyways.

Totally agree. The Raiders hat is a big hat with a tall crown and a wide brim. Most folks would not be able to pull it off. If I could re-make the Dorfman hat, it would simply be a smaller scale Raiders or Crusade hat with a slightly shorter crown and narrower brim. The block shape would be more accurate and of course the ribbon color would be better.

[BendingOak]

The Raiders hat is a big crown big brim but not for a period 30s-40s hat.

[Forrest For the Trees]

The Raiders hat is a big crown big brim but not for a period 30s-40s hat.

Oh, I know. But the Dorfman hat is still one for the masses. The dimensions won't be scaled up or down according to hat size. Your average bloke visiting a hat shop nowadays would be rather surprised by their appearance in a hat with a 5.5 inch crown, and 2.75 inch brim.

[Texan Scott]

...if you could remake the dorfman, about the only thing you could keep would be the stamp of the label?

[BendingOak]

You know the purpose of the Indiana jones hat pin on that hat?

[michael]

You know the purpose of the Indiana jones hat pin on that hat?

I believe that's how they get the price up to $50 (or whatever they cost now) from about $2.75.

[Dalexs]

Don't be silly, of course it's to impress the chicks!

[WConly]

Don't be silly, of course it's to impress the chicks!

Shoot ! Why, oh, why did I not realize this sooner ?

Classic...comeback ! W>

[BendingOak]

You know the purpose of the Indiana jones hat pin on that hat?

I believe that's how they get the price up to $50 (or whatever they cost now) from about $2.75.

So you can tell its a Indy hat.


The sad thing is your not that far off from what it cost to make that hat.