Club Obi Wan

Posted: **Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:29 am**

I just read an article that Olympic College in Washington State (where I live) has banned sport whip cracking on campus. Here’s the article (from http://www.ocolympian.com/news/article_ ... 0f31a.html):

Bullwhips are no longer allowed on campus after an email complaint from a professor about the historical use of whips and their meaning to her as well as other students.

OC student Jason Harris’ whip cracking was brought to the attention of OC’s President, Dr. David Mitchell as well as all OC faculty and staff through an email from professor Karen Bolton. She said she felt offended by the recreational practice because of the historical context of the whip and it’s origins in slavery.

“Being a person of color, it literally made me feel sick to my stomach,” said Bolton in the email, “that whip has symbolism.”

The issue was addressed in an open forum Thursday, March 14. Members of the OC community expressed their opinions for both sides of the issue. Counseling Staff John Babbo and Anthony Carson facilitated the forum and President Mitchell, who called for the forum, also attended. The issue was discussed from both a dangerous weapons and racial standpoint in relation to the email.

“Whips are a hobby for me,” said Harris, “this is not something I practice and think of any particular time in history.”

Harris utilized the open field on the Bremerton campus to practice because he does not have adequate practice room at home. Harris was present at the forum and offered his apologies about the escalation of the issue.

“It was very unexpected,” said Harris, “the response that this incident got.”

The student conduct code can be found in the Washington Administrative Code website section 132C-120-065. The WAC, does not directly address the use of whips, but does say any use of a dangerous weapon that can be used to inflict harm on people is subject to disciplinary action. However chapter 9.41 of the Revised code of Washington does not classify a whip as a dangerous weapon.

“In my mind, I am thinking, this guy has a weapon!,” said Bolton in the email, “someone should take action.”

Ed Call, director of OC safety and security, said Harris contacted campus security officer Eric Hill and asked if he could practice on campus. Security officers observed his practice carefully before determining he was not a threat to the safety of students.

“We were watching and observing to make sure he was practicing in a safe manner,” said Call, “a whip specifically is not deemed a dangerous weapon by RCW.”

President Mitchell contacted assistant Attorney General Bruce Marvin, a figure with legal authority, who supports the notion that a whip is a liability. Whips will no longer be allowed on campus.

“CLEARLY our college needs leadership on this issue, and I am asking for you (Dr. Mitchell) to step forward and take care of this,” said Bolton.

This doesn’t just affect Jason Harris it affects all sport whip cracking. You need to write the college’s president Dr. Mitchell and tell him that this ban is crazy. It will take less than a minute to speak up for sport whip cracking. You can write you own email or simply copy the one below and send it to: dmitchell@olympic.edu

Dr. Mitchell,

I just read an article about your college banning Sport Whip Cracking on its campus. I think the Professor Bolton’s objection to its “historical” use is misinformed. For example fire hoses, baseball bats and even laws have been used to HISTORICALLY against black people, are you considering banning those? I bet you can find an attorney that will tell you all of those have liability issues for your campus, but you aren’t banning baseball or fire hydrants. I’m going to bet that baseball injuries cost your campus more per capita than whip injuries. So the liability argument is very short sighted.

Jason Harris did the proper thing by contacting campus security and getting approval from them and they determined he was doing it in a safe manner. I urge you to reconsider this ban…or possibly work out a solution. For example allowing him to reserve time at racquetball court.

Posted: **Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:59 am**

I guess no one has the right to be offended anymore...they just shut you down....

btw, on that sample letter, I would remove the word "stupid" and replace it with something a bit less insulting, if you know what I mean...

note: it has since been corrected. Nice!

Posted: **Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:55 pm**

Here is the letter I am sending:

-------------------------------------
Dear Dr. Mitchell,

I am a sport whip cracking enthusiast. I recently became aware of the situation on your campus.

First of all, I wish to express my sympathy toward Professor Bolton for the unease she felt due to the use of a whip on campus. I can fully understand her side of this situation and how she might associate whips with this dark time in American history.

However, it would also appear that there are still some misconceptions regarding the whip, its history, and its origins. As an institution for higher education, it seems to me that this is a perfect learning opportunity for yourself, your students, and Professor Bolton.

Whips did not originate with slavery. They predate recorded history and are the first man-made objects to break the speed of sound. While it is true that whips have been used as a tool for pain compliance, their primary function has always been for controlling livestock. They were not meant to actually harm said livestock, however, because there is too much financial risk in damaging the animals. Rather, it is the noise that is used to drive cattle.

It is unfortunate that a tool would be distorted and used in such a reprehensible manner as was the case when slavery was prevalent in this country. I'm sure those who invented the whip didn't envision such use any more than the inventor of the rope envisioned a noose.

There is certainly a sensitivity issue to be addressed here, but there is also an issue of confronting fears and destroying misconceptions.

I don't view shunning or banning objects with rich and diverse histories because of one unpleasant part of their history as a healthy objective and I would hope that you reconsider the University's position. This may seem to be an odd request from someone who not only doesn't attend school there, but who also doesn't even live in your state. However, I would hate to see this type of policy gain traction and jeopardize the sport of whip cracking elsewhere.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Posted: **Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:39 pm**

Perfect zuiun. I say basically the same thing just in my own words. I mentioned what whips are more often than not used for today, I believe i touched on what their original intention was. I also mentioned over sensitivity, as you did, and the we in the whip cracking world feel it our job to educate the general public on whips to get these common misconceptions and negative connotations involved with whips out.

I love what you said about the rope and noose. Perfect logic! I hope yours is read.

Posted: **Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:36 pm**

Zuium: Nice piece of writing.

Gailen

Posted: **Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:03 am**

I could be mistaken - I have been at least once that I can recall - but it appears to me that some of this is a legacy of the movies. A cat-o-nine-tails or something similar is what would be used to flog or beat someone with considerably more effect than a bullwhip, but in most films, especially older ones, we see slave-drivers, overseers, etc. using bullwhips.

As noted above, a bullwhip was used to drive livestock - which in certain times and places seems to be what slaves were considered - without damaging valuable "property", not to beat and scar. Hollywood, however, used the bullwhip more for the sound effect than for it's appropriateness to the "task". It's also a lot easier to make up a long scar on an actor's back than it is to show pulped flesh with ribs almost exposed. That, it seems to me, is how most people today have come to associate the sight and sound of a bullwhip with slavery.

Of course, Indy and the "Cairo flash" haven't helped with this perception, but there have been enough threads about whips as weapons here to convince me, at least, that if I want to defend myself or attack someone with a whip I should use the handle as a bludgeon or "sap".

I doubt that this is an argument that can be used with much success in an emotionally heated environment, but if I'm correct perhaps this should be a component in any effort to "educate" people about whips.

LJT

Posted: **Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:35 am**

Perfect, zuiun, absolutely the right tone of knowledge and getting the point across!!

I just sent my own email but took the same knowledgeable tone as you did.

Posted: **Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:15 pm**

In case you want to learn a bit more about this institution:

Olympic College is an urban-based, but rural- and urban-serving, 2-year public institution in Bremerton, in the U.S. state of Washington.

Olympic College opened its doors as Olympic Junior College on September 5, 1946. The main building was located in Bremerton, Washington. They had 575 students (423 men and 152 women) and the tuition was $35 per quarter or students had the option to pay for three quarters in advanced for $75.

Olympic College serves Kitsap and Mason counties in Washington. The college's service area contains two major naval installations: Naval Base Kitsap and Naval Hospital Bremerton.

The college's main campus is a 33-acre (13 ha) site located in Bremerton, Washington, and its two satellite campuses are located in Poulsbo and Shelton, Washington. The Poulsbo campus is a 20-acre (8.1 ha) site and is 15.9 miles (25.6 km) from the main campus, while the 27-acre (11 ha) Shelton campus is located 38.4 miles (61.8 km) from the main campus. These three campuses serve more than 12,000 students a year mainly from the 281,374 residents of Kitsap and Mason counties spread over 1,617 square miles (4,190 km2) of wooded and lowland mountain terrain (Census 2000).

The land for both the Shelton and Poulsbo campuses was donated. The 27 acres of land that is now the Shelton campus was donated by Simpson Timber in 1991 and the 20 acres of land that is now the Poulsbo campus was donated by the Olhava Family in 1993.

In spite of being 7 miles (11 km) from downtown Seattle with its diverse metropolitan population, Kitsap and Mason counties' populations are predominantly white (84% Kitsap and 89% Mason), mostly between the ages of 25–54 (41% Kitsap and 45% Mason), and slightly more male (51% Kitsap and 52% Mason). From this service population base, Olympic College's student body demographically by largest represented groups are predominantly full time (59%), between the ages of 20–29 (37.7%), female (56%) and white (73%).

The school motto is, "Cogita, Aspira, Aude, Perade (think, aspire, dare, achieve)."

Olympic College has attracted dignitaries and well-known performers during its history. Harry S Truman, the 33rd President of the United States, visited Bremerton and Olympic College (then known as Olympic Junior College) in 1948. He received the first honorary degree from the college that year.

They have also recently created a 4-year degree in Nursing.

Posted: **Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:30 pm**

Video links to see the people involved:

http://www.ocolympian.com/news/video_5e ... 0f31a.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:11 pm**

http://www.ocolympian.com/opinion/edito ... 0f31a.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's wrong with that headline...

Tut, tut.

Posted: **Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:14 pm**

Its our society. People intentionally look for things to get upset about. Then decide to ban inanimate objects.

Posted: **Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:15 pm**

And I`m willing to bet that this has all to do with the offended party watching Django. Talk about being influenced my movies! Geeez!

Posted: **Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:08 pm**

Sounds like professor Bolton needs to reset her time machine and move out of the 1860's.

Posted: **Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:21 pm**

Solent MKIII wrote:Sounds like professor Bolton needs to reset her time machine and move out of the 1860's.

No kidding! By her rational, juuuust about every nationality or ethnic group has a legitimate case against something or someone else if you go back in time far enough... I don't accept such nonsense and I call it out for the blatant attempt at emotional blackmail (no pun intended) that it is. Someone has to say the unpopular truth here...

Posted: **Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:38 am**

OK, this is an interesting topic and one that's been discussed before in terms of a whip being classified as a weapon for practice in public spaces.

The discussion is veering in the direction of political discussion and/or attacks on individuals which violates the rules of the COW.

Long John Tinfoil wrote: Of course, Indy and the "Cairo flash" haven't helped with this perception, but there have been enough threads about whips as weapons here to convince me, at least, that if I want to defend myself or attack someone with a whip I should use the handle as a bludgeon or "sap".
LJT

Gorak wrote:And I`m willing to bet that this has all to do with the offended party watching Django. Talk about being influenced by movies! Geeez!

Lest we forget Indy was beaten with his own bullwhip in TOD.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Posted: **Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:53 pm**

While I understand respecting the forum rules and have no issues with that, it IS a political issue, so if you want to discuss it, in any depth at least, then you have no choice but to be political. It's up to the mods to decide if we can or can't discuss it in depth.

As for personally attacking someone, keep in mind who started this: professor Bolton. Not a forum member.

I think beyond the forum, the question is really; this touches a chord in the American psyche and it is one you have never really resolved. Is this the place to do it? Probably not, but until you become able to talk about it you are always going to live in fear of it.

That's it, that's all I have to say about that.
Cheers.

Posted: **Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:42 pm**

I don't know if this is the same information that louiefoxx started this thread with or if it is the next page of a story that is unfolding, but I found this article and I believe Rhett Kelly did well in making his point.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/04/crack ... c-college/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fellow members we need to watch this issue closely.
The Federal Government may take our whips before they get our guns.

I fear that this "bull whip thing" may be under a much larger microscope before this is over, and as all things of this nature it will get worse before it gets better.
If it gets better. We must watch are P's & Q's when practicing and performing our craft in the public eye.

-Dusty

Posted: **Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:55 pm**

It's the same story.

Yes we do all need to be extra careful to make sure our practices are above any reproach, not that it made any difference in this case...

As far as your whips being taken away... At least they can't be used to kill anyone so I foresee any limitations to be minimal if any.

Posted: **Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:38 am**

What do you mean whips cant' kill?? Try wrapping the whip around someone's neck and squeeeeeeeze hard!!!

Posted: **Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:11 am**

Charybdis wrote:What do you mean whips cant' kill?? Try wrapping the whip around someone's neck and squeeeeeeeze hard!!!

Realistically almost anything can be turned into a weapon. Ive seen some pretty crazy things in my short time.

Posted: **Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:02 pm**

Yeah, we'd all better watch out, that Bic can be lethal!!!

Posted: **Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:13 pm**

Come guys work with me here! Yes, I know almost anything can be used as a weapon, the point I was making is that unlike a knife or a firearm, it actually takes more skill for most people to use a whip as a weapon, and more importantly, you can't hijack a plane with a whip, you can't rob a bank with a whip and you can't kill a roomful of innocent bystanders with a whip. ERGO a whip is NOT a viable weapon. This is true (in most instances at least) and should be the point of view EVERYONE has vis-a-vis this question if and when it comes up for debate. Otherwise you are working against yourself and are working toward stricter laws regarding whips. So let's all work toward the same goal here shall we?
Cheers.

Posted: **Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:03 pm**

parttime wrote:I don't know if this is the same information that louiefoxx started this thread with or if it is the next page of a story that is unfolding, but I found this article and I believe Rhett Kelly did well in making his point.

Rhett's sentiments turned up over on the whip forum, too. Like I said there, the only thing I don't like about his article is that, especially toward the end, he seems to get rather condescending toward that professor. In my opinion, that is *NOT* the way to sway public opinion (even if she is acting absurd).

Posted: **Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:13 pm**

It may not be the best approach in strategic terms, but I think Professor Bolton's actions were also disproportionate in view of the "offense" and I, like many people today, is getting a wee bit tired of always having to cater to the P-C crowd who are always offended by something and are the ones who make life a little bit more difficult to live for the rest of us. Don't misunderstand this for a lack of empathy or caring, especially as it pertains to the BS blacks have had to endure. But the way Prof. Bolton decided to act is the issue here, why should Rhett go out of his way to be pleasant to her when she is the one who started all of this and in doing so, essentially attacked all of us? To not further antagonize her? Yes, ok, a valid point, and given enough time and a willingness of her part to have a conciliatory mind that might just prove to be the ticket in finding a way to not offend her anymore. But what about how she antagonized everyone who cracks or makes whips? Does that mean that because she is offended by something that reminds her of past crimes that everybody TODAY has to tiptoe around her and her set of sensitivities? EVERYBODY on this planet has been hurt and has suffered. Is there a hierarchy of pain where certain groups are allowed to be more offended than others? Because if that's the case, we may as well call it a night and go home until death knocks on our door. I've got a list as long as my arm about different people who's rights have been baffled and who continue to live with a total lack of empathy on a daily basis; think First Nations People... Again, I'm a reasonable man and given half a chance I will go out of my way to make people happy and not needlessly hurt anyone, for any reason, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to be a door mat to their frustrations. I think this is where Rhett is coming from.

Just my two cents here.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:54 pm**

Canuck Digger wrote:It may not be the best approach in strategic terms, but I think Professor Bolton's actions were also disproportionate in view of the "offense" and I, like many people today, is getting a wee bit tired of always having to cater to the P-C crowd who are always offended by something and are the ones who make life a little bit more difficult to live for the rest of us. Don't misunderstand this for a lack of empathy or caring, especially as it pertains to the BS blacks have had to endure. But the way Prof. Bolton decided to act is the issue here, why should Rhett go out of his way to be pleasant to her when she is the one who started all of this and in doing so, essentially attacked all of us? To not further antagonize her? Yes, ok, a valid point, and given enough time and a willingness of her part to have a conciliatory mind that might just prove to be the ticket in finding a way to not offend her anymore. But what about how she antagonized everyone who cracks or makes whips? Does that mean that because she is offended by something that reminds her of past crimes that everybody TODAY has to tiptoe around her and her set of sensitivities? EVERYBODY on this planet has been hurt and has suffered. Is there a hierarchy of pain where certain groups are allowed to be more offended than others? Because if that's the case, we may as well call it a night and go home until death knocks on our door. I've got a list as long as my arm about different people who's rights have been baffled and who continue to live with a total lack of empathy on a daily basis; think First Nations People... Again, I'm a reasonable man and given half a chance I will go out of my way to make people happy and not needlessly hurt anyone, for any reason, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to be a door mat to their frustrations. I think this is where Rhett is coming from.

Just my two cents here.

My contention isn't so much based on the response directly to Professor Bolton, but in general.

This response has been put out into the public, for anyone to see. Regardless of how unfounded or absurd Prof. Bolton's reaction was, this kind of response now creates the mindset that we, as a group, can't handle ignorance or misunderstanding in a mature fashion. Our "retaliation" is to become condescending and call people absurd.

That doesn't help anything.

Just my two cents.

Edited to add: I fully believe that we are an intelligent and creative enough community to respond to these kinds of issues in a manner that doesn't resort to name-calling or condescension and still doesn't make us anyone's door mat.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:11 pm**

Fair enough and I'm sure given some perspective, most would agree with you.

Posted: **Tue May 15, 2018 8:02 pm**

In all actuality, the objects that slaves were beaten with bear little resemblance to the whips we use for sport cracking. Most would have been flogged with a cane or, if a whip was used, it would have been closer to a wooden handle with leather or rope tied to it. Often, they would have hard objects tied to the strands to increase the damage. Research the Roman flagellum. They weren't the supersonic tools that we use.

Posted: **Tue May 15, 2018 10:01 pm**

I've seen whips like that in our local antique mall. There is a display case of vintage WW2 Nazi paraphernalia, and among them are two cat-o-nine-tails floggers with wooden handles. The tag reads: WW2 German prison camp whip. $200 apiece, if you can believe it! They're ugly, brutal-looking things, too. Definitely not the exquisitely-crafted long lash whips that are so prized by Indy fans like us.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2018 5:32 pm**

i wonder if you can get Adam Winrich to send a letter??? Anyone know how to?

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2018 8:59 pm**

Seeing as the letter writing campaign is five years old, I don’t think it will make much difference.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:12 pm**

Just saw this thread from (checks date) seven years ago?! HA!

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. But that's where we are as a society these days.

I wonder how this all ended up?

KS

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:07 pm**

The_Edge wrote:Just saw this thread from (checks date) seven years ago?! HA!

That's probably the last time you probably logged in too!

Great to see you Kyle!
I still have one of the pocket bulls hanging on my display. It even gets used every so often!

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:22 pm**

Well, here is the bullwhip guys side of the story.

https://rhettswhips.com/2014/01/21/that ... c-college/

Seems the kid even approached the police before he ever attempted to practice (something we all highly recommend) and they said it was fine. The professor went to the police, they said he was fine so then the professor emailed out to all faculty and staff to address the issue which escalated it almost instantly. Even the president asked her why she didn't just come talk to him first.

Not surprising. In 2018 on my old campus we had a professor that was so angry that we were discontinuing VCR players that he contacted the Boston News about it (our campus wasn't even in Massachusetts). Faculty are a special kind of special.

The whip is still banned on campus.

Oh well.

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:41 am**

Thanks for posting that follow-up. That was quite a read.
My biggest take-away...

"What I learned: There are people that are people who are predisposed to being offended."

Living in the big city, I see this all the time, all around... and sometimes over the most assinine things.

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:42 pm**

Dalexs wrote:I see this all the time, all around... and sometimes over the most assinine things.

What, exactly, did you mean by THAT??!!!

Regards! Michaelson

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:54 pm**

With all those smiley's, I can't tell what you're insinuating

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:53 pm**

Dalexs wrote:
The_Edge wrote:Just saw this thread from (checks date) seven years ago?! HA!

That's probably the last time you probably logged in too!

Great to see you Kyle!
I still have one of the pocket bulls hanging on my display. It even gets used every so often!

I don't know if it was THAT long ago but it might be close. HA! Happy to hear you still have that Pocket Bullwhip! I have one that I use regularly as I walk the dog and scare off the unleashed ones that come running towards us. *Whoosh Crack!!* Those dogs don't even get within twenty feet and they run away. Pretty funny.

Haven't made a whip in years. Concentrated on my freelance illustration career.

Kyle

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:33 pm**

backstagejack wrote:Well, here is the bullwhip guys side of the story.

https://rhettswhips.com/2014/01/21/that ... c-college/

Seems the kid even approached the police before he ever attempted to practice (something we all highly recommend) and they said it was fine. The professor went to the police, they said he was fine so then the professor emailed out to all faculty and staff to address the issue which escalated it almost instantly. Even the president asked her why she didn't just come talk to him first.

Not surprising. In 2018 on my old campus we had a professor that was so angry that we were discontinuing VCR players that he contacted the Boston News about it (our campus wasn't even in Massachusetts). Faculty are a special kind of special.

The whip is still banned on campus.

Oh well.

Thanks for the update!!

Posted: **Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:04 pm**

Kyle, it looks like my visits here aren't much better, but I try to get in a couple times a year. As for whips, the one you made for me is still my absolute favorite. I use it more than the Morgan I had when we cracked together. Thanks again for a great whip, and I hope you're doing well.

Mike

Club Obi Wan

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