What if Swales first sold Ford and Steven the GREY?

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:39 am

Tom Selleck tested in a grey fedora and dark brown leather jacket. What if the grey was envisioned as Indy's main hat? Ford and Steven would have bought a grey from Mr. Swales, and indeed, Indy wore a grey in two sceenes, and the tall smoking Cairo Nazi may have worn it as well. 45 more HJ hats were sold to Speilberg for Ford and the stuntmen, and maybe there was a brown one without a dimensional cut? I don't have a solid opinion about the existance of the dimensional cut. Didn't Mr. Swales claim that the Brazilian hat body supplier went out of business, but Fedora perhaps has found them alive and kicking? Can we really believe Mr. Swales testimonal, or was he just saying what we wanted to hear? He certainly hasn't seen to it that HJ Indy fedoras remain credible after his retirement....Well, I just wanted to share this "grey first" theory, even though Mr. Swales claims to have sold them a brown hat at the first meeting because it was to be "Used in different terrains..."?. Forgive me Mr. Swales, if I'm dead wrong. Just another theory.

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Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:52 am

Didn't Mr. Swales claim that the Brazilian hat body supplier went out of business, but Fedora perhaps has found them alive and kicking? Can we really believe Mr. Swales testimonal, or was he just saying what we wanted to hear?

It could be they had a falling out, and Swales didn't want us to hear know that.

Marcus Petrius · Post by **Marcus Petrius** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:39 am

The grey one Selleck and the others who wanted the part had on was probably something they had lying around. The jacket he's wearing isn't the same as in the movie either.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:45 am

I laugh when I see that clip. It's like "Raiders on Broadway!"

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:52 am

If Tom had played the part, maybe they would have opted for black to match his moustache?

Cooler King · Post by **Cooler King** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:56 am

No way, that's nothing more than a cheap Wal-mart hat, probably something Selleck had around the house.

MK · Post by MK » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:53 am

The footage of the screen tests were shot at The Egg Company......which was Lucas's fake name for Lucas film when it was on Lankershim in North Hollywood. That was before the company went to England and before Noodleman went to Herbert Johnson.

Cooler King · Post by **Cooler King** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 10:01 am

MK wrote:The footage of the screen tests were shot at The Egg Company......which was Lucas's fake name for Lucas film when it was on Lankershim in North Hollywood. That was before the company went to England and before Noodleman went to Herbert Johnson.

Would that be anything related to the Egg Marketing Board?

Paul Freeman talked about that and I never knew what he meant, or did I miss something else completely?

Cassidy · Post by **Cassidy** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 10:35 am

That was before the company went to England and before Noodleman went to Herbert Johnson.

This brings up another point, and something that has never sat right with me. I've never heard of a director going to a company to pick up wardrobe items. It just doesn't make sense, especially considering how busy Spielberg would have been in pre-production. I can buy Nadoolman going to HJ, but not Spielberg. It's simply not his job. It doesn't wash. Where are the pictures of Spielberg and Ford, two individuals of the highest calibre, that Swales would have had taken with them?

Until I see the proof that Spielberg and Ford did Nadoolman's job for her, than I will remain a sceptic.

Cheers,
Cassidy

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:32 pm

This happened in 1979 or so. Spielberg wasn't all that busy yet, as he was still building his status as one of the top directors in Hollywood, but at the time, he was still an 'up and comer'. He did indeed travel with Ford to personally find the items, and still personally orders a Raiders jacket from Peter Botwright once a year. Regards. Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:21 pm

He probably sells them on eBay. (grins) Regards. Michaelson

prettybigguy · Post by **prettybigguy** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:51 pm

When were the Ralph McQuarrie concept drawings done? Indy is always shown wearing brown in those images. Either McQuarrie decided to give Indy a brown fedora to match the leather jacket or someone told him to (Lucas?).

Marcus Petrius · Post by **Marcus Petrius** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:07 pm

Wasn't he wearing a brown one because that suited all kinds of climates and landscapes? I just read that a few days ago and I can't remember where I read it.
It was supposed to be something Swales told Spielberg and Ford, if I'm remembering this correctly.

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:26 pm

The outfit looks better with a brown hat.
Grey would have taken a bit of the adventure out of the show.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:56 pm

I think it's bizare that Mr.Swales states (In the first sentence of his testimonial) that Spielberg was shorter than Ford. Is he trying to demonstrate what a great memory and keen sense of observation he has? In the same sentence he nails the date of the sale down as "quite some years ago". Obviously, he didn't recognize Ford. He only noticed that one guy was shorter than the other, so how memorable would this meeting have been? It seems to me that Speilberg would introduce Ford as the co-star of "Star Wars", and that would be the most memorable thing about these guys- not their relative heights.
Is the short tall observation intended to somehow prove that he met these guys?- like, only someone who had been in the same room with them would know which one was shorter? Take any two people. One will be shorter than the other- big whoop. Also, in that first sentence, he states that he "was alone in the shop that day" No witnesses, so why bother to intrview other employees..? I'm behaving like a rat or a snake trashing Mr. Swales rep like this. There's not much reason for me to question his honesty, I just love a mystery. Actually, Mr. Swales, being a tailor would notice their height first. And Star Wars could have been discussed, but not mentioned by Mr. Swales. I started this thread at 5 A.M. Didn't think anyone would be reading it that early. Forgot that there's different time zones. I wanted to delete it, but Indiana Texas Girl posted her reply 13 minutes later, and I couldn't delete.

Neolithic · Post by **Neolithic** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:28 pm

...also, I've seen design sketches of Indy's costume with him wearing a grey fedora...(I think it could be in the DVD bonus stuff as well)

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:56 pm

Well, all that I know is, Ford and Spielberg should have picked out the hats for the other two films as well. See what happened when someone else did?

Fedora

Farnham54 · Post by **Farnham54** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:17 pm

Well, would a middle aged Hat maker in London really care about star wars? Moreover, Ford was also still an up and coming actor at the time of Raiders, was he not? So he perhaps would not have the recognition that he now enjoys. Sure he was in Star Wars, but like I say, maybe Swales couldn't give two hoots about Star Wars (I think saying that on SW boards would get me banned

)

REgards,

Farn

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 10:21 pm

Yeah, the only movies Ford had been in were Starwars, The Empire Strikes Back, and American Graffitti. :junior: -IJ

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:04 am

He was also in Apocolypse Now, More American Grafitti, Force Ten From Navaronne, Hanover Street, Heroes, and a few lesser known movies up until that point. He was a little more than up and coming. After Empire, I would say he was there.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:00 am

I was looking for the Ralph McQuarrie drawings prettybigguy was talking about, and found this pic of Larry Kasdan in Grey fedora and Leather jacket at a Making of Raiders site.

He looks upset that I ever started this thread..... I'd like to apologize to Mr. Swales, and now that he's retired, maybe he has time to hang out here?

Farnham54 · Post by **Farnham54** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:07 am

Ford was in Apocolypse Now?

wow, I'll have to pick that one up! I've never gotten the opportunity to see the whole thing. Thanks for the mention.

Regards,

Farn

Marcus Petrius · Post by **Marcus Petrius** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:08 am

He's near the start, when Sheen gets his assignment.

Indycraze71 · Post by **Indycraze71** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:13 am

Just a quick bit, when Indiana Jones is described in the the novelization of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom he is described as wearing a gray snap-brim hat. So maybe gray was his original hat color, just a thought. Brett