Does kip dry out quicker than roo hide?

[Dr. Nebraska S.]

This afternoon I had a great time cracking my kip bullwhip from ClassicBullwhips.com (see: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54306) with some friends. One thing that was noticed by Lion Tamer (who has been kind enough to instruct me) was that my whip seemed a bit dry and need more Pecards all over (not just the fall but also the thong). We were a bit surprised, since I had used Pecards all over it not that long ago.

So, the question which came up and I thought I would ask: in general, do kip/cowhide bullwhips tend to dry out more frequently/quickly than roo-hide bullwhips? If not, perhaps this was simply due to other factors, such as living in a fairly dry climate.

By the way, I want to make it clear that in no way is this a complaint--just a question about possible differences. The more I've been using this whip, the more I've been really enjoying it!!! And I don't mind slathering on a bit more Pecards to further darken and enrich the color of my whip. I'm interested to hear your thoughts!

Best wishes,
Nebraska S.

[riku1914]

I have a theory. I know that kip and cowhide, when the whip maker starts with it, is dryer than roo ( even dry roo, not drum stuffed isn't as dry as cowhide and kip ). So maybe because it lacks moisture to start, even though it's greased several times during the whip making process, it will initially dry out quicker.

I live in what tends to be a dry climate and my whips seem to dry out pretty quickly, so it may just be that like you mentioned.

[Dr. Nebraska S.]

All good points, riku--thanks for sharing them.

Best wishes,
Nebraska S.


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[Marhala]

As far as I know, English kip is oiled too, so I don't know what kind of material James used.

Basing myself on what Jeremy wrote, is that drum stuffed leather (already oiled before being worked into a whip), is given an additional dressing with plaiting soap. This perhaps helps it retain its moisture better.

When using dry hides, even though you dress them, there's a chance they won't absorb as much dressing as a drum stuffed hide from the tannery. The grease sits nearer the surface and is prone to being removed more easily than in a drum stuffed whip.

Luke, do you let the dressing sit for some days prior to practicing. If you just put the dressing and go out to practice, the oils or grease will be washed out with use immediately.


Aldo.

[riku1914]

Don't let dressing soak in for more than an hour so. I say this because if the leather gets too "wet" with the dressing, they will loosen the plaiting and make your whip get too loose ( I've heard of this happening so this one isn't a theory ).

Aldo, I've used english kip before ( it was labeled as as english kip, and it definitely was kip, but I'm not sure if there's a difference between regular kip and english kip, and if so whether or not the company I bought it from knew of this ) and it was dry just like regular cowhide. It had obviously never been greased at all. Again I'm not sure if it was actually "english" kip and if there's even a difference between kip and english kip, but that's what it was labeled as.

[Dr. Nebraska S.]

Aldo, James has mentioned that he used plaiting soap with my whip:

I applied plaiting soap and shellaced the swatch because I knew someone would ask about it. Plaiting soap does darken the leather a little but nowhere near the color of the whip you posted riku1914. Cowhide in natural always tends to be lighter in color then kangaroo in natural.

-James

After whip "cractice" when Lion Tamer (my main whip instructor) has noticed my whip being too dry, I apply a light coat of Pecards, hang the whip overnight, and wipe down the next morning. I waited longer to wipe it down this time, since it's been less than 2 months since I had done this treatment for dryness and it was noticeably dried out again.

By the way, the whip seems to be performing great. At Saturday's cractice, it handled great for hitting the spaghetti noodle targets (i.e., the same kind of targets at the QM Summit whip targeting competition) both with the cattlemen's crack and the forward flick. I'm really looking forward to this year's summit as my first one with my own whip. Plus, James will be there, and it'll be good to show him how it's doing.

Best wishes,
Nebraska S.

[riku1914]

Plaiting soap is usually the last thing applied. With dry hides, we tend to give the hide at least one coat of regular leather dressing on each side and let it soak in before we even touch the hide ( that's what some whip makers do, and it's what I do. I don't know the exact method and the order he does things, but I do know plaiting soap is the last thing he applies to it before plaiting ).

The leather dressing conditions and strengthens the leather, and the plaiting soap lubricates it. The plaiting does condition it somewhat, but the leather dressing does the majority of the work, and lasts longer then any conditioning plaiting soap will do.

[classicbullwhips]

As far as I know, English kip is oiled too, so I don't know what kind of material James used.

Depending on availability I have used the following types of hides in my cowhide/kip whips; English Kip, Imported Kip, Domestic Cowhide and Imported Cowhide. All of these styles are not oiled like drum stuffed and require extra conditioning before plaiting. To keep prices reasonable importing English Kip is no longer cost effective and I am currently not using it. While I do condition the hides before plaiting a dry climate definatly decrease the time between needed applications of leather dressing. Recently I have been researching leather dressings and soon will be offering one that preserves and protects with natural oils that leather requires. I will bring some to the summit, it is now my new recommended leather dressing.

Keep Crackin,
-James

[Dr. Nebraska S.]

Great to hear you weigh in on this, James, and looking forward to seeing you and this new leather dressing at the Summit!

Best wishes,
Nebraska S.

[Marhala]

Luke, thanks for posting James' reply on the use of plaiting soap.

Jeremy, James... perhaps I got it wrong and English kip has never been oiled. Or perhaps I messed it up with another tannage. But thanks for your testimony on the dryness of the hides and the need for nourishing them before working with them.


ATB,

Aldo.