Club Obi Wan

I'm actually curious as to a somewhat common custom we've adopted today; if hats were such a social "requirement" back in the day, and literally every man wore them, was the courtesy of removing one's hat indoors in place as well? Watching older movies and such lead me to believe that, no, that wasn't the case; you took off your hat when greeting a lady, saying the pledge, or singing the national anthem, things of those sorts, but otherwise, men kept their hats on in banks, at work, etc.

At what point, and why, did we adopt the courtesy of "a gentleman removes his hat indoors?" I have a sneaking suspicion it has to do with post WWII, but I'm unsure. Many-a-times when hanging out with my military friends there were stories about new recruits who didn't pay close attention to when they had their "cover" on, etc. I'm wondering if the large military impact made on the men of America during that time caused the shift in social actions.

But then, that's just a guess. Anyone have any input?

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Here's a few old topics that discussed this in the past.

Regards! M

Being in the military, I've more or less been trained to take my hat off as I step across the threshold. Obviously, etiquette is never quite so strict. Sometimes I get the impression that you don't wear your hat indoors any more than you wear your coat indoors. For example, if you work in the mens department at Macy's, you wear your coat and hat until you get to the department where you hang them up back in the storeroom. If you're a customer who just walked in from outside, and you're not provided with a coat check/hat rack/etc. It's fine to continue wearing your hat, since you're time indoors is very temporary. Again, I don't know anywhere this rule has been etched into stone, so I wouldn't even follow my own suggestion as though it were law, but it seems a good rule of etiquette thumb.

I read something online a couple of years ago about hat etiquette (I'll look around and see if I can find it again), but I seem to remember that you took you hat off, obviously) in church, or anytime you entered a building where people lived. So, you could leave it on in the bank, but, if there were apartments upstairs from the bank, you were supposed to take it off. you could generally leave it on in retail establishments.

try this: http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/Clot ... d_caps.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

there are a ton of sites if you do a search for hat etiquette.

It's actually a little surprising that Indy and Marcus didn't doff their hats when meeting Ilsa at the Venice pier.

My rule of thumb is I leave my hat on indoors in 'public' spaces: lobby, corridors, etc. and remove it upon entering a 'private' space: a person's office. In restaurants I generally keep it on until I arrive at the table and then remove it when I sit down. I rarely, if ever, remove it in an elevator regardless of the type of building.

In LC, I think Marcus does remove his hat or at least touches/raises the brim upon meeting Elsa. Indy is too love-struck to remember decorum!

Regards

Indiana Jeff

The only things I do different to Jeff's list above is I DO remove my hat in an elevator if there is a lady present, and remove AS I'm being taken to a table in a restaurant.

Otherwise, my list matches his.

Regards! Michaelson

Oh aye, and I follow very similar etiquette myself. I was honestly wanting to discuss the history of it, from exploring the origins of the etiquette to figuring out what has caused the changes.

I take mine off indoors, regardless of where I'm at. Funny enough, I'm always irritated when living in Texas I'm at a dance hall, etc and the cowboys all still have their hats on......I understand, since there's no where to put their hats....but it still irks me.

My unsubstantiated guess is the origin is in military tradition and the requirement to remove hats indoors. With the shrinking number of civilians that have served, and not having parents who have served, coupled with the reduction of hat wearing in general the customs around hat wearing have been lost.

I'm sure at one time there were volumes written on the proper etiquette around storage of riding crops and buggy whips.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

True, but no definite 'history' per se, as every country ha its own set of 'rules' as to how one should conduct themselves, so that would be a ponderous volume to read.

What was acceptable in the U. S. would more than likely be considered in bad taste in, say, Borneo.

Regards! Michaelson

You make a very good point there. Living where I do, the 'national dress' for men is to wear a ghutra (also referred to as a keffiyeh or shemagh), picture the Lawrence of Arabia headdress. In any case, men do not remove it unless at home in the company of family or very close friends. I've had several locals ask me why I remove my hat indoors since in their custom, their headdress is part of their complete outfit even though it proves a 'function' of helping keep the sun off their heads.

Incidentally the most compliments I get about my hats in public are from locals. I think it's because they can appreciate a quality piece of head gear.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

That's really cool! Makes perfect sense, but for some reason I'd never thought of it that way.

It even varies by region.

You take a hat off in, say, NYC, and it's seen as an act of being a gentleman.

You take your hat off in, say, El Paso, Texas, and that is a sign you're ready for a fight.

Differnent places, different practices.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:It even varies by region.

You take a hat off in, say, NYC, and it's seen as an act of being a gentleman.

You take your hat off in, say, El Paso, Texas, and that is a sign you're ready for a fight.

Differnent places, different practices.

Regards! Michaelson

hahahaha, since I take mine off wheneever I go indoors, remind me not to do so in El Paso!!!

Since Elementary School I have been wearing a baseball cap. When I was that age I took it of whenever I was told to, which was pretty much all the time indoors. During High School I never took it off (and wore a hood). I then joined the military for three years, and after that I wear my cap outside, and take it off indoors. If it's a larger room with 5 meters or more to the roof from the floor I keep it on. Train station etc.

I haven't used my fedora too much in public yet, but guessing I'll stick to the same etiquette as I do with my cap.

I think the 'public space' 'private space' rule is a pretty good one. When going out to eat though, I usually leave mine in the car as there is nowhere to put hats in most restaurants. Ihate to put it on the floor and it feels tacky setting it on the table.

Restarants can be tough. I don't put my hat on the table and generally use an unused chair, but when that's not available I've gone this route.

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Regards,

Indiana Jeff

When in resturants, I'll use an unused chair or if pupsh comes to shove, I place it on my knee. I REFUSE to put it on the ground. If there's room I might use the table but there's usually not room. and of course there's the rare occasion when there actually IS a place to hang my hat and I use that, but face the hat the whole time in order to keep an eye on it.

Likewise. Hats off indoors is thw rule, especially when seated at a dining table. In the past hat racks were available, or check-in rooms. But I also use a chair if one is available or my knee. In the service the lid comes off indoors immediately. But during the past fifty years or so the etiquette of hat wear has been forgotten.

I've gotten to the point that I don't wear my hat if I know I'm going to have to take it off somewhere. I don't mind taking it off at a friend's house, where I can be aware of it's location and relative safety, but when there's nowhere to put it, forget it. I hate wearing it while I eat, and there's just nowhere practical to put it in a restaurant, so it either stays in the car, or at home if we're going to eat and then straight back home.

As for public places in general, the likelihood of taking off my hat increases with the intimacy of the setting: Wal-Mart = hat on, movie theater = hat off.

Well, the problem with hats is wearing them outdoors... They're expensive, especially when you don't get them. But you do get used to wearing them. And they do get worn. And you get used to balancing them on your knee under tables. And after a while you don't mind. By then you're thinking about your next hat.