Club Obi Wan

Hey, guys! Yesterday I received a package! Ahh! package day, I've missed you, my old friend!

But seriously, this is my first pair of stockwhips (though for a year I was caretaker of a pair of PH whips made by Lauren Wickline, which are a type of stockwhip, but that's another story!).

These whips from Joe are beautifully crafted, as anyone familiar with Joe's work would expect. I ordered them 12x8 plait (the handle is 12 plait, and the thong is 8 plait). I was going to order them 12x12, but Joe said that as the length of the whips was only 4', I wouldn't even notice the difference, and he was right. Since a four foot thong is pretty short, dropping strands from 12 to 6 didn't make sense, and doing them as 8 plait saved me $30 a whip! So thank you, Joe, for the good advice.

As for the design, the handles are half-plait. Joe recommends these for anyone trying to develop quick routines. To quote his site:

"Many entertainers, performers and competitors prefer the half plait cane handle because it is stiffer than a steel lined cane handle and gives a quicker recovery between cracks, which is essential when performing a complicated routine."

I requested the color be saddle tan, and I asked him to decorate the knots as he saw fit. Thus, he chose some natural color leather to dress up the turkshead and first ringknot. There's also a slightly fancy design on the handle itself. These whips turned out exactly as I hoped, and my plan is to really put them through their paces as I teach myself complex two-handed whip routines, ala Adam Winrich (yeah, right!). To help me, I've been studying Mike Murphy's DVDs on whipcracking, and they have definitely been a great way to get started.

They handle quite well, though they are going to go need a good breaking in period. But so far after only a couple of days I'm already learning things that I hadn't been able to accomplish, at least not well, with bullwhips. After I get in some good practice, I'll post a video, naturally! Until then, wish me luck! I'm a happy whipcracker.

And here they are!













Thanks for looking!
Daren Henry W

PS Upon opening the package, I was reminded of just how much I LOVE the way a brand new whip smells. I wish all my whips would retain that scent forever.

DHW

Congrats' man those are beautiful!!

-Dusty

Perdy!

NICE!

Jake

Congrats on your new whips! Joe work is awesome. I to recieved a whip from Joe and I'm really happy with it!

Nice! I'm just about done with a pair of 5' stockwhips myself

They look awesome, Darren. Congrats on your new whips.

Aldo.

Thanks, guys! Just went out for a good workout! Definitely happy with these whips! It's very interesting to pick up a bullwhip, then pick up the stockwhips, then pick up a bullwhip again. It's amazing how very different, though essentially the same they are. I think these whips are the first new whips I've received in over a year, and I remember now why I had been on such a rampage buying whips there for a while: every time I get my hands on something new, I learn something new. And these whips are no exception. As I said above, things that seemed rather impossible with bullwhips, I can do with these stockwhips with ease, like the helicopter. Yet, I know that eventually my new skills with the stockwhips will translate back to things I'm doing with my bullwhips.

Cheers!
DHW

DarenHenryW wrote:Thanks, guys! Just went out for a good workout! Definitely happy with these whips! It's very interesting to pick up a bullwhip, then pick up the stockwhips, then pick up a bullwhip again. It's amazing how very different, though essentially the same they are. I think these whips are the first new whips I've received in over a year, and I remember now why I had been on such a rampage buying whips there for a while: every time I get my hands on something new, I learn something new. And these whips are no exception. As I said above, things that seemed rather impossible with bullwhips, I can do with these stockwhips with ease, like the helicopter. Yet, I know that eventually my new skills with the stockwhips will translate back to things I'm doing with my bullwhips.

Cheers!
DHW

Do they have an 8 plait point? That's what it looks like in the picture but I may not be able to see the single diamond that would

be seen in 6 plait, clearly.

riku1914 wrote:

DarenHenryW wrote:Thanks, guys! Just went out for a good workout! Definitely happy with these whips! It's very interesting to pick up a bullwhip, then pick up the stockwhips, then pick up a bullwhip again. It's amazing how very different, though essentially the same they are. I think these whips are the first new whips I've received in over a year, and I remember now why I had been on such a rampage buying whips there for a while: every time I get my hands on something new, I learn something new. And these whips are no exception. As I said above, things that seemed rather impossible with bullwhips, I can do with these stockwhips with ease, like the helicopter. Yet, I know that eventually my new skills with the stockwhips will translate back to things I'm doing with my bullwhips.

Cheers!
DHW

Do they have an 8 plait point? That's what it looks like in the picture but I may not be able to see the single diamond that would

be seen in 6 plait, clearly.

I'm not sure about the point. I guess I'll have to ask Joe. I assume it's a 6 plait point, though the whip is 8 plait, but I'm most definitely not a whipmaker, and so while I can see 8 strands sticking out past the knot, most of whips have the same thing, even though I'm told that they all mostly have a six plait point.

Either way, here is some video I shot over the weekend! I have so much to learn, but I think this video gives a good sense of the progress I've made over the last few weeks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPpCkSb8 ... =g-all-lik

I can't wait to shoot another video where I can demonstrate other cracks and routines, both single and double-handed. But this will have to be it until I feel I've mastered a few more things. Just last night, I cooked a pretty cool routine (with only one whip, mind you), where I was cracking the whip behind my back. I don't know if I would call it a Tazmanian cutback though . . . (think I'll post a question about that on a new thread . . . )

Thanks for watching!
Daren

FYI they're 8 plait points. You can tell by counting the number of strands that make up the fall hitch (thought there are some exceptions, most will simply tie each strand that makes up the overlay once in the fall hitch, though some will use one or more strands and tie them twice, this is not common practice). Another and more reliable way, is to see how many strands pass under the visible ones, so if you have a herringbone pattern (the normal whip's pattern) and the strands are the width of two strands then you know that at that point the visible strand is going over two strands underneath, if some of the strands are only the width of one single strand, then you know that at that point it is going over one strand. Add those up and multiply by the number of visible strands (usually four at the point) and you get the number of how many strands are being plaited at the point. So in you case, you have four visible strands and each is going over two strands (4 X 2 = . In the case where it alternates over 2 over 1, then you just go (2+1+2+1=6) or (2+1X2=6).

Hope I didn't make this too convoluted...
Cheers,

Franco

Canuck Digger wrote:FYI they're 8 plait points. You can tell by counting the number of strands that make up the fall hitch (thought there are some exceptions, most will simply tie each strand that makes up the overlay once in the fall hitch, though some will use one or more strands and tie them twice, this is not common practice). Another and more reliable way, is to see how many strands pass under the visible ones, so if you have a herringbone pattern (the normal whip's pattern) and the strands are the width of two strands then you know that at that point the visible strand is going over two strands underneath, if some of the strands are only the width of one single strand, then you know that at that point it is going over one strand. Add those up and multiply by the number of visible strands (usually four at the point) and you get the number of how many strands are being plaited at the point. So in you case, you have four visible strands and each is going over two strands (4 X 2 = . In the case where it alternates over 2 over 1, then you just go (2+1+2+1=6) or (2+1X2=6).

Hope I didn't make this too convoluted...
Cheers,

Franco

I'm not a whipmaker, so I can't say as that I understand much of what you've written, but I asked Joe, and yes, indeed, Franco, you are right, they are 8 plait. But, as you noted, it's not necessarily based on how many strands in the fall hitch.

DHW

Joe always does great work. . Daren, most experienced & knowledgeable whip makers will take an 8-plait thong all the way down to the point (especially with shorter whips and finer performance whips) That way they don’t have to drop strands, so not only does it make for a seamless/smooth overlay but it typically allows them to bring the whip to a finer point.

Dan

BullWhipBorton wrote:Joe always does great work. . Daren, most experienced & knowledgeable whip makers will take an 8-plait thong all the way down to the point (especially with shorter whips and finer performance whips) That way they don’t have to drop strands, so not only does it make for a seamless/smooth overlay but it typically allows them to bring the whip to a finer point.

Dan

I find it easier to get a finer point when I drop strands, and I'll explain the reason. I don't like having strands that measure less

than 3mm on the point of my whip, for longevity reasons. That said, I also want my stockwhip points to be in the 5mm area ( I

think one I recently made measure 5.2mm ). I had a 6 plait point on that, and the strands were right in the 3mm area. if I were to

have an 8 plait point, the strands would have needed to be in the 2.25mm area, way too thin for a normal use whip, in my opinion.


It appears that joe doesn't bring his stockwhips down to a much finer point than the bullwhips, if he makes it a finer point at all ( gauging by strand size ), so he wouldn't have that problem.

I'm just saying, I'm not sure people do that the have a finer point, and more just to, as you mentioned, have a smoother overlay,

free of drops, and also to avoid drops, because no matter how good you get at them, they still mess up the "flow" of plaiting.

Riku, I’ve had some pretty well respected, professional whip makers tell me straight forward that that’s one of the reason they prefer to finish their whips in an 8 strand point. That it allows them to taper it down to a much finer point. It’s also fairly common for said whip makers to take the strands down to around 2 mm or less on 8 plait points. Is there a trade off on durability? A little; but for many the benefits outweigh that.

Have you ever seen Joes whips in person to make the comparison yourself? Or are you just going off the photos?

Dan

BullWhipBorton wrote:Riku, I’ve had some pretty well respected, professional whip makers tell me straight forward that that’s one of the reason they prefer to finish their whips in an 8 strand point. That it allows them to taper it down to a much finer point. It’s also fairly common for said whip makers to take the strands down to around 2 mm or less on 8 plait points. Is there a trade off on durability? A little; but for many the benefits outweigh that.

Have you ever seen Joes whips in person to make the comparison yourself? Or are you just going off the photos?

Dan

I'm basing this on all the pictures I've seen, and I've even asked some people over time to take measurements of parts of their

whips. I haven't asked Daren, but if you wouldn't mind, could you tell me the diameter of the point on that whip? It looks to me to

be no smaller than 6mm ( they actually look to me a little bigger than that ), but there's always the possibility it's not showing up

accurately on my screen.


If they wanted to have an 8 strand point that's very fine, without any dropped strands in the point making it wider, they could just taper the strand so that they do all the dropping nearer the end of the belly, ( it's preferable to do strand drops, at least on a whip with wider strands, in an area that's not over a belly ) as opposed to later down the whip. That way the dropped strands get tapered and cut off before the point. That's just how I see it, and how I would do it, if I were in a situation like that. What I would personally do though, that would be even easier, is I'd split the leftover and dropped strands down thin, and I'd taper them fairly thin so that two or three belly/dropped strands would take up the space either that of a regular strand, or even less. That would be the easiest of the two, for me.

The 6-plait points Joe finishes his bullwhips with are under 6mm, moving closer to 5mm. Maybe Daren can give you the specifics for comparisons. I don’t have one of Joes stock whips handy to take measurements of, but from what I do remember the point was bit narrower then on his bullwhips.

Photos and second hand sources are useful but are careful not to rely on them exclusively. If you’re serious about whip making, I’d recommend getting a few high quality whips made by experienced, recognized professionals or at least find someone who will let you examine and try their whips. You’ll learn more by seeing the physical whips, examining them and cracking them in person.

Dan

BullWhipBorton wrote:The 6-plait points Joe finishes his bullwhips with are under 6mm, moving closer to 5mm. Maybe Daren can give you the specifics for comparisons. I don’t have one of Joes stock whips handy to take measurements of, but from what I do remember the point was bit narrower then on his bullwhips.

Photos and second hand sources are useful but are careful not to rely on them exclusively. If you’re serious about whip making, I’d recommend getting a few high quality whips made by experienced, recognized professionals or at least find someone who will let you examine and try their whips. You’ll learn more by seeing the physical whips, examining them and cracking them in person.

Dan

I have an order from midwest whips through right now, if all goes well, I should be getting it late july-august.

Daren, those are very nice stocks! They just scream Australia

Could you tell me where the balance points are? Around 2/3 of handle length measuring from the buttknot?

Daren, Love Those Beautiful Strain Whips!!!
I'm a little jealous....
But I am looking forward to a couple of pairs of Simon Martin Stock-whips for Me & My lady that are in transit right now- (white with a custom furl design I drew up!) One pair is 3.5 foot & the other is 4 foot - We ordered them months ago after meeting Adam Winrich for the first time in Vegas at a Western Arts Show- I got to crack some of Adam's whips & those Simon Martin Whippa Lace Stock-Whips were really light, well balanced & really really easy to crack! Michelle & I ordered them immediately!! they should be here in a week or so!!!! Can't Wait!

-T.Rex