Club Obi Wan

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Looks like a .455 Webley on the left and an a .45 Colt (Long Colt or LC) on the right.

Neither is a .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) round. This was the main round the M1917 was made for.

The .455 is fitting if it was a British gun that was used as the model for the prop/blank-firing revolver. Actually kind of neat if that's the case.

Good comparison of all the above: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-e ... -info.html

The one on the left came out of todds blank firing Model 17 S&W. Yes, the other is a 45 long colt and used in the real model 17's. I didn't put 45 long colt in the title since I figured everyone knew. Obviously this is not an 45 automatic Cartridge.

Gailen

Mountaineer wrote:Looks like a .455 Webley on the left and an a .45 Colt (Long Colt or LC) on the right.

Neither is a .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) round. This was the main round the M1917 was made for.

The .455 is fitting if it was a British gun that was used as the model for the prop/blank-firing revolver. Actually kind of neat if that's the case.

Good comparison of all the above: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-e ... -info.html

Now I know what your saying. I had to read it a few times before I got what you were saying. For convenience and cost I fire the 45 long Colt in the model 17 Smith.

Gailen

All good. Sorry if I wasn't too clear. Thanks for sharing.

I had not seen the blanks used in the replica, I think it's cool it evidently uses the .455 round as the model.

Well, since you brought it up, what ammo DID Indy's gun use? (Or what would it have used?) I figured that, based on the Bapty, he was using .455 Colt. --but now that I think of it, that would only be true if he were using a British contract M1917. Yes?

Forgetting the actual specs of the prop guns, what would be the likely source of Indy's revolver (US vs overseas), and what caliber would it be?

I could have sworn that the M1917 used 45acp rounds with clips, which then makes the blanks look nearly spot on.

Both the M1917 Colt and the M1917 Smith and Wesson were made for the U.S. Military as a stop gap measure to provide troops with handguns, as there were not enought M1911's in inventory during WWI. As such, both were chambered in .45 ACP, and utilized half moon clips to give the ejector stars a way to engage the rimless ACP cartridge. Later versions had cylinders that were bored in such a way as to use the ACP cartridge without the moon clips; however, you had to use a cleaning rod or pencil to poke the cases out of the cylinder. British contract guns were either available in .455 Webley or .455 Eley.
R/S
Fritz

So then Indy would likely have had an M1917 in .45 ACP? (Gee, that's kinda boring.)

Being a WWI vet of the Belgian Army (according to the Young Indy Chronicles) he would have been familiar with all of the revolvers of that era, including the M1873 Chamelot Delvigne French Ordnance Revolver (the guns carried by Brendan Frasier in "The Mummy"). The .45 ACP M1917's and 2nd Model Hand Ejectors in both .455 Webley and .455 Eley would have been pretty common and pretty cheap after the war. Martially marked M1917's in .45 ACP are getting pretty pricey due to the upcoming 100th anniversary of WWI. A buddy of mine recently picked up a nice 2nd Model HE marked .455 Eley, with an unusual six inch barrel. It was a British lend lease piece; at some point someone put an M1917 .45 ACP cylinder in it. It would be worth more with the original cylinder, but it's a heck of a shooter!

You're a lawyer, aren't you?

Here's what I'm trying to pin down: In the most likely (period correct) scenario, what model revolver would he have, from where, and in what caliber?

Since Indy carried a .455 Webley in the later movies, it's not infeasible that he carried an HE2 in .455 Eley. (In fact, considering the reach of the British Empire at the time, .455 might have been more readily available than .45AC in the places Indy found himself.)

Does my reasoning work?

(I promise, I'm going somewhere with this.)

I need a lawyer! Rental law specifically.



W

Not a lawyer; sorry. I'm a retired Marine Corps Criminal Investigator!

.455 Webleys stayed in service until the Korean War, so ammo would've been available all over the British Empire. Realize that the Empire was shrinking at this point, where the United States was expanding. The 1911 series of sevice pistols stayed in service until the first Gulf War. Force Recon units carries the 1911 with a Para Hi-Cap frame during the war. Surplus .45 ACP would be available all over the world, and suprlus arms were dumped on the civilian market in great numbers after the war, since they were considered "obsolete."

So the short answer is, either one would be an appropriate Indy cartridge. Pick the one you prefer and go for it!
Cheers,
Fritz

Fritz: Is there a a particular time that the model 17 would have been converted to the long colt cartridge?

Gailen

Actually, it's the other way round. The Smith and Wesson 2nd Model Hand Ejector and the Colt New Service were both commercially avialable revovlers in .45 Long Colt. When WWI kicked off, there weren't enough 1911's to go around, so both Colt and Smith and Wesson provided their revolvers to the government. .45 ACP cartridges are rimless, and would slip through the LC cylinders, so the half moon clips were invented. Later production models had cylinders that were only bored through only enough to fit the .45 ACP rounds.
R/S
Fritz

Fritz: Thanks so much for clearing that up for me. Now I understand completely.

Gailen

You might find this ammo discussion interesting: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-e ... olver.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nice pictures, too.

From the British Gun Pub at Gunboards:

Cartridge SA Ball Pistol Revolver Enfield BL Mark II
Cartridge SA Ball Pistol Revolver Enfield BL Mark III
Cartridge SA Ball Pistol Webley Mark I (Also Enfield) if powder loaded or Cartridge SA Ball Pistol Webley Cordite Mark I (Also Enfield) if cordite
Cartridge SA Ball Pistol Webley Cordite Mark II (Also Enfield) changed post 1917 to Cartridge SA Ball Revolver .455 inch Mark II
Cartridge SA Ball Pistol Webley Cordite Mark III (Also Enfield) changed post 1917 to Cartridge SA Ball Revolver .455 inch Mark III
Cartridge SA Ball Pistol Webley Mark IV changed post 1917 to Cartridge SA Ball Revolver .455 inch Mark IV
Cartridge SA Ball Pistol Webley Mark V changed post 1917 to Cartridge SA Ball Revolver .455 inch Mark V
Cartridge SA Ball Revolver .455 inch Mark VI or VIz if nitro-cellulose loaded

Thanks Tony!
R/S
Fritz