Club Obi Wan

I've searched but am not getting to the crux of the matter: what is the actual origin of the Bapty revolver? I have a S&W model 1917 in .45 ACP with the 5 1/2" barrel and half-round front sight, and I'm (mildly) contemplating converting it to the Bapty style front sight and shorter barrel length.

I know Bapty is a weapons rental service based in the UK for film production (at least that's what the website looks to be). Was the Bapty revolver a movie prop house improvisation done on the original revolver? Why would the original barrel have been cut off behind the front sight? Why didn't they just use a standard model 1917 for the film, in addition to the various other sidearms?

(Someone will post the threads that answer this I'm sure, but I couldn't find them.)

Thanks.

Also - just ordered my Wade Egan holster this morning - can't wait to get it. I went tromping through the woods in heavy snake country a couple of days ago and after the 1917 nearly rubbed a hole in my pocket I was inspired to order a good holster.

I have a theory (and it is only a theory) of why the barrels were shortened.

With the barrel shortened, the ratio of length to diameter is less, making the barrel appear bigger around.

They recorded a 30-30 rifle for the sound of his gun shots so it would be louder than the others.
So why not make it look like a larger caliber as well?

Like I said, just a theory.

It's interesting to me that the barrels on both of his non-Webley revolvers were shortened - meaning both the Bapty with the ramp front sight, and the "suitcase" revolver, with the odd front sight/barrel lengthener. Why this would be done is beyond me. Hollywood doesn't normally have a problem with long barrelled guns - consider the ridiculous loooong barrelled double rifle Alan Quatermain used in League of Ext. Gentlemen. Or Matthew Quigley. Or Natty Bumppo. Or Dirty Harry.

I wonder if it has to do with pistols that were available in Britain. I wonder if these were part of Lend Lease and had been cut/altered in some way over the decades. Both of the pistols wound up in a movie prop warehouse and both had after market front sights jury rigged into place because their barrels had been cut. It just doesn't make immediate sense to me and I don't know if it's been addressed earlier. I found several long and detailed pistol threads and noone seems to deal with the elephant in the room.

The Webley wasn't altered and the automatics (obviously) weren't altered. The Webley looks pretty wicked to begin with and the autos wouldn't function if an amateur started cutting sections off of them. I get the feeling that the revolvers were basically grabbed at random. They needed a revolver, this one looks authentic enough, right time period, let's use it.

I may well be very wrong.

In the U.S., surplus military guns sold very cheaply through companies like Bannerman's. They were so cheap that many huters and outdoorsmen sporterized Krags, '03 Springfields, 1917 Enfields and so on. It wouldn't be unreasonable for an adventurer like Indy to want the power of a .45 ACP in a more concealable package. Believe it or not, that extra inch and a half does make a diffference when concealment is an issue. Of course, if you wear the revolver open on your hip...

Just my two cents' worth.
R/S
Fritz

There's also some good general info of this gun on the main site: http://indygear.com/igguns.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If fantasy was reality I would agree with M1917. Indy probably wanted the power of the 45 caliber but in an easier to carry package. My personal preference is a 3 inch barrel for the same reason. It looks like Indy may have cut down his .45 ACP 1917 himself but did such a poor job on replacing the sight he had his second gun, the .455 Mk II HE, done by a professional gunsmith!

In reality why the movie studios chose what they did remains a mystery!!

I have been always under the impression that maybe they wanted a "signature" pistol for Indy. A distinctive weapon for the rest of his look.
That does, however beg the question, why didn't they keep it for the other films? Especially LC

No longer available? Lost at the time?

Any thoughts?

The Numenorean wrote:That does, however beg the question, why didn't they keep it for the other films? Especially LC

There has been much speculation on this over the years and there are many threads on this forum that have addressed that same question with no conclusive answer.

What has been told is that one of the film team saw a Webley WG and just liked the way it looked so decided to use it in LC.

Other information has surfaced that shows the Webley WG was supposed to been the gun Indy uses and looses in the beginning of TOD. A Webley WG had been rented both from Bapty in England and from Stembridge in Hollywood and was tagged as the "Hero" gun, but for some reason, it was never used in the film. There's speculation that the Webley was too big for Willy to "fumble" so they substituted with the smaller Colt OP revolver. That's also why you see Indy with a Webley holster in TOD as he was supposed to have had a Webley.

The Numenorean wrote:No longer available? Lost at the time?

Either way it wouldn't have mattered. If they wanted a 4 inch S&W .45 and couldn't get the ones that had been used in ROTLA they could have easily made a new one.

I figure that even before TOD someone really wanted to use the Webley. It probably was mistakenly not used in TOD so perhaps it was then decided to be used in LC instead.

It's all speculation though.

wellofsouls wrote:I get the feeling that the revolvers were basically grabbed at random. They needed a revolver, this one looks authentic enough, right time period, let's use it.

I may well be very wrong.

You're probably very right!! That is the way it's often done in the movies!

All good points. I guess the short answer is.. we'll never know

" all of a sudden, woosh, it was gone"

Syd stembridge told me that Lucasfilm sent him a picture of the Bapty gun and said they wanted another like it. The 1917 was in stock as it was, so that's the one that they ended up with for the stateside scenes. He never could find the letter and picture of the Bapty, or I would have it now.

Lee Keppler wrote:Syd stembridge told me that Lucasfilm sent him a picture of the Bapty gun and said they wanted another like it. The 1917 was in stock as it was, so that's the one that they ended up with for the stateside scenes.

That does make sense. The film maker will request a certain model, length, and configuration often with a photo of a piece already used, and if the prop house has the same or similar in stock, that's what gets sent out. So Stembridge already had a 4 inch S&W large frame .45 revolver on hand and, although not exactly the same as the Bapty, that is what they used.

Thanks again Lee for the insight!!

If it's the case that Stembridge had the 1917 in stock as-is, then it's reasonable to assume it was used in that configuration in other productions. (Or maybe with, say, a silencer attached.)

(OK, I'll shut up about it until I can find some evidence to support my theory.)