A nightmare trying to be accurate in this hobby

[lantzn]

Here's the true nightmare of trying to be screen accurate. What a headache.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35223822@N ... 045459256/

[whipwarrior]

I know! It's really hard to pull off that authentic Harrison Ford look without a lot of expensive plastic surgery. I gave up a LONG time ago! Now I just stick to wearing the gear itself.

[Michaelson]

I only wear 'Michaelson' gear myself.

That way I'm ALWAYS SA.

Regards! Michaelson

[knibs7]

What's so hard about the Screen Accurateness of those pictures?

Kyle

[KingHamlet]

I think it's because the shirt seems to change colors drastically in each photo.

[lantzn]

I think it's because the shirt seems to change colors drastically in each photo.

Actually if you even look at the mkvii bag and web belt it the same situation. A fellow cow member and I have been going back and forth on the color of the web belt. I think I've found it based on few photos and then he shows me others and questions it.

[DarenHenryW]

Yeah, but with the change in lighting and set, etc., you can't be so uber-critical. I think the web belt you recently acquired is spot on!

DHW

[lantzn]

I think the web belt you recently acquired is spot on!

DHW

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I have enough of em that were suppose to be but are no where close when I got them. The one I recently found looks awesome in real life, and I love the color, it goes with everything.

[Wade Egan]

Don't beat yourself up about it. It's best to constantly realize that prop and costume departments (especially for Raiders) didn't take much care in continuity with these things. Who knows how many different web belts were actually used by Ford in each of the films. Best to just pick one and tell yourself it's the best one.

W

[Indy B]

"Michaelson" gear seems to be a sound choice.

[Michaelson]

Works for me!

Regards! Michaelson

[Hollowpond]

I definitely find myself solidly in the "Who Cares?" Camp. I got burn out on SA. Now I don't even have Indy boots, pants, or an Indy shirt on my back and I find myself happier for it. I still love the hobby and respect those who do obsess, but I just don't care about that stuff anymore.

[Mark Raats]

I only wear 'Michaelson' gear myself.

That way I'm ALWAYS SA.

Regards! Michaelson

LOL.. Amen mate…..!

Regards

MARK

[Michaelson]

[Wade Egan]

In my world SA means 'seriously awesome' and I just wear what I think is SA and leave it at that. If you try to please everyone else and their myriad senses of what is correct or not you'll go batty. Case in point, I prefer the darker brown color for the Raider strap and holster. It just feels more 'adventure' to me than the orangey or reddish flavor of the commonly used colors. I have only had one person tell me that 'that's not right.' My 6 year old nephew. He's a stickler for SA.

W

[Indiana Jeff]

I definitely find myself solidly in the "Who Cares?" Camp. I got burn out on SA. Now I don't even have Indy boots, pants, or an Indy shirt on my back and I find myself happier for it. I still love the hobby and respect those who do obsess, but I just don't care about that stuff anymore.

My personal favorite SA story is from a friend who wore a screen used Star Trek movie costume to a con and got hammered on by other fans for how inaccurate his uniform was.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[darkhelmet]

For over twenty years, my other obsession was building an exact replica Bruce Springsteen's famous Esquire guitar. My first attempt was back in 1988 but the color was driving me nuts. Some pics show it a yellow. Some show it reddish. Some show it orange. I was pulling my hair out, but I carried on and found a happy medium. No internet then, so I was on my own relying only pics from books and magazines.

Then two years ago, I decided to dive in again and build an even closer replica. Drove myself nuts again, especially with the internet confusing me even more. Then I found out Springsteen was going to have his own exhibit at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame...and his guitar was going to be on display. YAY! Cleveland is only 3 hours away.....so I made the trek....I brought a ton of reference pics to compare to the real thing and when I finally saw the guitar in person it was not even close to most pics.

I rambled, but unfortunately, pictures are far from accurate and unless you see something in person, you're going to have to live with what YOU think is accurate to your minds eye. I've realized I (we) are a compulsive group, whether it be a screen accurate prop, or a life accurate guitar, we demand perfection to the point of it being a disorder. Seriously, how many "civilians" are going to know your pants are the wrong shade or the shirt is wrong? How many know Indy wore Aldens (or even care)? In the words of our heroes father... Let it go....

[Indiana Jeff]

It's been said time and again, but 99% of the public sees no difference between this



And this




That's why I like the 'screen reminiscent' concept so much.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Hollowpond]

Well put.

I gave up on accuracy because no one I know can tell the difference between the pics Jeff posted. I could wear jeans with a white button up shirt and a leather jacket and a fedora (ANY fedora) and I get more Indy comments than when wearing the accurate stuff. I have dressed as Indy in the past at the school where I teach when I do the physics of the bullwhip, but other than that occasion, I really never fully gear up. To me, it seemed like a lot of cash for a once a year event. So for me(heavy influence on the me...) it wasn't very satisfying to have all that stuff just hanging in my closet, so I got rid of most of it.
Now, having said all this, I will NEVER sell my AB deluxe (which gets regular wear in cooler weather), MK VII with Wade's strap, Todd's Raiders holster (that fits my S&W .38), or Bernardo kip whip. I still love that stuff. I do have an OLD wested goat that is fine for now, but if Dan can pull off a Raiders jacket I'll probably sell that too. I guess I'm just not a costumer. Obsessing over accuracy detracts from the enjoyment of the hobby for me.

The absolute happiest I've ever been in this hobby is when I was 11 years old running around with a Stetson Temple, a jean jacket, and a jump rope coiled at my side, and while I derive great enjoyment from some individual pieces in my collection, the pursuit of a totally SA or SR costume results in my enjoyment doing this...

But then again, I'm not 11 anymore. So again, and this is ONLY FOR ME, its not worth it.

Travis

[maboot38]

I don't know why people keep using photos and screen grabs for color accuracy. It is just ridiculous to do so. Unless you are looking at your gear under the exact same lighting conditions, through the eact same film stock, through the exact same filters, and with the exact same photo viewing application, and on the exact same monitor (and even then, it may still be off), it is just silly to do this. We've proven it time and time again.

And yet folks still hold their shirt up to a photo of Indy and say "this isn't SA". Trust me, it is as good as you are going to get. Color matching is a dead end street. It'll get you nowhere. Even if you held your shirt up to an actual screen used shirt and they were identical, it still wouldn't be "screen" accurate, because the shirt in real life is a slightly different color than the way it looked on the screen. Why do you guys keep doing this to yourself?

Your theory and methods for determining accuracy are flawed. Your tests have no "control" case. Surely you can understand this. I'm not picking on anyone here, I just want you to see why it is that you aren't getting the result you are looking for, and giving concrete reasons why it won't work. Folks repeatedly refuse to accept these simple facts. Light spectrums are constant, but spectrum perception is not. Spectrum perception is dependent on multiple variables, and yet you are setting one of these variables as your constant. Simple high-school algebra (if not simple physics) show these methods to be ineffective.

Are you stepping in what I'm dropping? If your shirt has the same dimensions, stiches, button sizes and shapes, and is even a similar shade of light brown, you are as screen accurate as you are going to get. As Henry said....."Indiana.....let it go."


As for this....

I only wear 'Michaelson' gear myself.

That way I'm ALWAYS SA.

Regards! Michaelson

[twilekjedi]

Throwing another wrench here: fabric colours do fade with time.

[lantzn]

Wow what a roller-coaster ride this thread is, which I knew it would be. Being a graphic designer color is one of the biggest headache when trying to please a client. As stated many times here and elsewhere, we all see color differently and its projected differently from device to device and during all aspect of the movie making process.

I figure I'm doing fine by just getting the general look, shape, or texture of a piece close enough. Getting the color close to an image "I like" is fine by me. Someone else may not agree but that's OK by me. That's what makes us individuals and if we all looked and dressed alike how boring would that be.

[knibs7]

Well said, Michael

Kyle

[lantzn]

Great thread Michael and no I hadn't seen it before.

Screen Reminiscent was a good point made in a comment.
We need to see more "SR" instead of "SA" in these threads.

[IndyRiv]

I'm in the same boat as Lantzn on this one. While I love this hobby and working to make my collection as best as it can be, there are simply too many nuances that can drive a person batty with each piece of gear.

There is one key rule to follow that I've found when choosing which piece of gear is "as close as it gets":

1) Base your item/prop off a general consensus of pictures or one particular one.

Many of us have only screen stills, photos in books, etc. to go off of and I concur that doing so is very stressing as each picture was taken under different lighting. For example, I had a pair of Magnoli's Dark Khaki trousers once and I couldn't believe the difference in color they were by comparing the color in a room with flourescent lighting and ones with incandescent. They appeared greyish in one and light pinkish in the other. Therefore, I would recommend analyzing your screen stills and choosing the color that seems most consistent and get yourself to say "that's it!". Another option more recommended is basing your item off one key still or picture. This way, you only have one picture to focus your accuracy on and to add piece of mind, you can then either frame, laminate, etc. that picture and put it next to your wardrobe or gear piece and say "there's the proof - that's the picture I used".

Having said that, I, for one, am one who strives to get every nuance as perfect as I can. This is my collection, my passion. I'm content on wearing "close-enoughs" for general wear, but my focus has been on obtaining a highly screen accurate collection of particular gear.

A collection is about research, investment, and what your desires are. Some people want absolutely the best for static displays - others want to wear the stuff and are content with off-the-rack items.

Prioritize and self-reflect. Find out how far you're willing to go with your collection and how dedicated you're going to be. Then act on it. There are people here willing to provide their insights. Screen grabs may be all you have to work with and they ARE a boon regardless of what others may say. I've found the treatment for the insanity that comes with this hobby listed above.

The key is "accurate". Accurate means it's as close to the original as possible. "CLOSE"... not "EXACT". And what constitutes close is in the eye of the beholder.

[Oildale Jones]

Hey, all. My first post. (Is there an "introduce yourself" thread? I can't seem to find one.)

My first serious costume undertaking (in 2009, for Road Warrior Weekend) was to put together as screen-accurate an MFP officer uniform (from "Mad Max") as I could. One of the other members on the Mad Max forum is a super-stickler for SA, and would occasionally comment that it wasn't SA to wear two props together because it's never seen on screen that way. My response was that I wasn't as concerned with "screen accurate" as I was with "screen possible." Although we never see Max, for example, wearing his shotgun and his baton and his shoulder holster all at the same time, that doesn't mean that in the world of the movie, it could never have happened. So instead of deciding to pick a particular character wearing a particular thing in a particular scene, I decided to be as accurate as I could be within the movie's boundaries.

The grand irony is that although everyone's replica costume is leather, the screen-used costumes were vinyl. (It's assumed that they were simulating leather...but what if they weren't?) So if you're wearing leather and not vinyl, you're completely wrong right out of the gate.

Now to yank this post back on topic, I'm starting the (hopefully rewarding) process of putting together a reasonably SA ROTLA Indy costume, because I've only wanted one for 30 years now, and while I will undoubtedly find myself agonizing over the minutiae, in the end, I'm gonna go with what makes me happy.

Chasing everyone else's ideas of screen accuracy (or success or happiness) is a recipe for misery.

[lantzn]

Hey, all. My first post. I'm starting the (hopefully rewarding) process of putting together a reasonably SA ROTLA Indy costume, because I've only wanted one for 30 years now, and while I will undoubtedly find myself agonizing over the minutiae, in the end, I'm gonna go with what makes me happy.

Welcome aboard OJ. You've come to the right place. There are so many great vendors to help make your goal a reality.

[Flawless Cowboy]

You want to talk about a nightmare with colors. Try Star Wars. I have an Imperial Officer costume, but I have to wrestle some people to convince them it isn't grey. I look at a couple of shades of tan/brown shirts and say good enough. With officers I've seen pale grey to dark green. I'm somewhere in the middle with mine.

[whipcracker]

Here's the true nightmare of trying to be screen accurate. What a headache.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35223822@N ... 045459256/

This is might be a little bit off topic but... is it just me or HF always seem to smile a little bigger when he is doing an IJ movie? I got that same impression when he met on the IJ ladies on the special featurette. It seemed like he was happy to see all of them but particularly happy to see Karen Allen and she him (Raiders was definitely special).

[Oildale Jones]

Thanks, guys. Posted some pix in t'other thread.

[lantzn]

Here's the true nightmare of trying to be screen accurate. What a headache.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35223822@N ... 045459256/

This is might be a little bit off topic but... is it just me or HF always seem to smile a little bigger when he is doing an IJ movie? I got that same impression when he met on the IJ ladies on the special featurette. It seemed like he was happy to see all of them but particularly happy to see Karen Allen and she him (Raiders was definitely special).

I remember on a Conan interview when HF was asked about making IJ films his reaction was a very big grin while rubbing his fingers together in the "BIG moola" sign. So that may be the reason.