Club Obi Wan

So I made the trip to Montreal to see the Indiana Jones and the Adventure of Archaeology exhibit. Very cool exhibit with all sorts of costumes and props from the 4 movies. First display was a screen used KotCS Indiana Jones costume. So of course I'm going to study it as closely as I can. And I see the boots. They look like aldens, however they appear to have an actual moc toe. Two pieces of leather, not the mock moc toe of the Alden. I would have liked to taken pictures, but it was prohibited. Has anyone else seen/ noticed this?

Are you sure it is not FLASH photography that is prohibited? That I how it usually is in the museums that I have been in.

I was told no photography, I figured it had to do with Lucas films copyright or whatever. It's possible I was misinformed but I just do what I'm told.

Yep. Its been stated 'no photography'.

Must be a Canadian thing.

As Tundrarider pointed out, there are a couple different threads discussing this so-called "screen-used" costume and the validity of it actually being a screen-used costume. I'm currently in talks with one of them regarding the pants fabric but I'm not sure which one Tundrarider is specifically referring to, so I ask:

Tundrarider, would you be willing to post a link to the thread you refer to? I ask only because I'm very interested in reading/engaging in it but am unsure if the one you and I speak of are one and the same. Thanks my friend!

Now, as to the items overall. Again, I have to concur with Tundrarider and _ on their comments. I've seen pictures that others have taken of the "screen-used" costume you're referring to, as well as close-ups of it and there are things on it that just don't jive with photograph and movie stills I've seen. One of the most prominent examples are, indeed, the trousers. As you're aware, Spielberg and Lucas put great pressure on Bernie Pollack to make sure that the nuances of the items for Ford were consistently designed to follow LC and as many, if not all, of us are aware, Spielberg and Lucas are pretty diligent in making sure the details are just right. With each film, the general consistency as far as the type of material each item is made of is generally kept - for example, in all 3 films, the trousers are made with pure wool cavalry twill, the shirt cotton, etc. So I would think that the trousers Ford wore in CS were also cavalry twill. However, there is the possibility that, given the 19 year lapse between films, that they may have gone for a whole different fabric that behaves much the same as cavalry twill does.

What I'm getting at, and really this is for a whole different thread so mods - I apologize if this doesn't belong here, is that the pictures I've seen of the weave on the museum costume is definitely NOT cavalry twill. It might be wool, but it's not cavalry twill. Also, the weave looks VERY SIMILAR to the weave on my cotton twill dress pants I wear. It's still boggling my mind about these pants that are being shown, but...

Given that the weave of the pants is not cavalry twill, it doesn't surprise me at all that the boots wouldn't be Aldens either. And I support the belief that this item is perhaps a stunt costume and not the actual Hero costume of Ford's. And it's pretty evident that Ford DID wear Aldens in the film and if a pair of those aren't at least shown in the exhibit's costume, that just seems like a dumb decision to do. I mean... it's no secret on what Aldens look like or can be sourced at, right?

Now, to check the pictures others have posted of the costume to review the boots.

Tundrarider wrote:We're referring to the same thread.

Michael

Michael,

Thanks for your prompt reply and, more so, for your willingness to reply. What's more, I'm glad to hear about the threads being the same.

well, is it not a possibility that it's Marion's boots? so yes CS gear, just not worn by Ford?

I saw them too, and they look pretty close to the boots he's wearing in the full-on promo shot in the "Ultimate Guide" book.

Cassidy wrote:I saw them too, and they look pretty close to the boots he's wearing in the full-on promo shot in the "Ultimate Guide" book.

So the boots are Aldens then?

Maybe it's a Canadian display thing because when the costume was here in Houston, they were DEFINITELY Aldens.

Kyle

I just took a look at some of the pictures of the Indy Exhibition and the Indy 4 costume that were taken by a member at another forum and I can definitely say that, based on the pictures "I" have, the boots in that particular case definitely seem to be Aldens.

While I'm very glad to see that they're Aldens, it actually hurts my theory that Indy's pants in CS were made of cavalry twill. If the boots in the case are Aldens, and everything else "seems" to match, then just maybe the pants in CS were made of just average cotton twill. Another side note I know....

Yeah, I must've looked at those pants for a full 5-minutes and they looked like a pair of Dockers, little to no texture at all...

IndyRiv wrote: it actually hurts my theory that Indy's pants in CS were made of cavalry twill.

Don't know how I missed this, but I could've told you that.

Just look at this picture and you can see http://www.theraider.net/showimage.php? ... /mo_09.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I got to see the pants out of the case and I can tell you first hand that they aren't cavalry twill.

They actually have the exact same weave pattern as my Indy pants in English wool. But they're definitely not cavalry twill.

Kyle

It actually looks like in the pic Knibs linked to that the pants have a half lining in them. I see a straight line right above Fords knee.

knibs7 wrote:

IndyRiv wrote: it actually hurts my theory that Indy's pants in CS were made of cavalry twill.

Don't know how I missed this, but I could've told you that.

Just look at this picture and you can see http://www.theraider.net/showimage.php? ... /mo_09.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I got to see the pants out of the case and I can tell you first hand that they aren't cavalry twill.

They actually have the exact same weave pattern as my Indy pants in English wool. But they're definitely not cavalry twill.

Kyle

Knibs (Kyle if I may),

Absolutely no worries about overlooking the pants aspect of the costume discussion. I'm most appreciative of any input you can provide regarding the trousers as you've had first-hand experience actually touching, seeing, and interacting with the costume in the flesh and I highly value your input, analysis, and opinions.

Thank you so much as well for posting the link to the picture as well as posting a close-up of the Indy costume that Lantzn also posted in the other thread. Both have really provided a lot of insight and new perspectives on the trousers that I didn't realize before.

As the trousers are not cavalry twill, my next inquiry in trying to understand the design and composition of the trousers would be: is the material of the costume trousers wool,cotton, or a mixture of both from your experiences with them? The way the trousers mostly flow, bunch up, and the shape/frays of the rips in Indy's pants in stills act more like wool than cotton but I've never had the opportunity of handling the trousers up close so your input Knibs is greatly appreciated.

Lastly, to the mods of this thread: I honestly didn't realize when I started writing about the CS trousers that, between the two threads I've posted at, that the subject would yield such wonderful and positive results in the field of research. As a result, I don't know if people would be interested, or if you feel it would be best to move these conversations into a different thread based solely on the CS trousers, but I just thought I'd apologize in advance if I've derailed any threads or if any of the posts I've made regarding discussion of the trousers do not belong in these threads. Thank you for your allowance of this and you have my utmost gratitude and thanks.

Bruce Wayne wrote:It actually looks like in the pic Knibs linked to that the pants have a half lining in them. I see a straight line right above Fords knee.

I think what you might see just above his knee is a bandage, just my thought since it looks like blood on his pant leg at the knee and the hole in his pants.

Bigfoot wrote: I think what you might see just above his knee is a bandage, just my thought since it looks like blood on his pant leg at the knee and the hole in his pants.

That's part of his costume. i.e. the blood and hole are SUPPOSED TO BE THERE.


Kyle

knibs7 wrote:

Bigfoot wrote: I think what you might see just above his knee is a bandage, just my thought since it looks like blood on his pant leg at the knee and the hole in his pants.

That's part of his costume. i.e. the blood and hole are SUPPOSED TO BE THERE.


Kyle

Indeed!

Also, what appears to be a bandage is what I believe a trick of the eye with lighting as the "whiteness" I think is actually Ford's leg skin. There also appears to be a slightly white patch right above the tear but that, as well, is a trick of the eye and light and is just a different glare of the fabric - no patch. Or at least that's what I'm all seeing in the picture.

IndyRiv wrote: As the trousers are not cavalry twill, my next inquiry in trying to understand the design and composition of the trousers would be: is the material of the costume trousers wool,cotton, or a mixture of both from your experiences with them? The way the trousers mostly flow, bunch up, and the shape/frays of the rips in Indy's pants in stills act more like wool than cotton but I've never had the opportunity of handling the trousers up close so your input Knibs is greatly appreciated.

I honestly don't know about cotton twill because all my Indy trousers have either been cavalry twill or English wool. I will say, however, that the fabric did react more like my English wool trousers. So, it's possible that it's some sort of wool blend, but as I said before, I don't have any experience with cotton twill.

Let me know if you have any more questions and I will be happy to try and answer them.



Kyle

Kyle,

As always, your responses are most appreciated. And I hope my inquiries and comments haven't come across as rude, inconsiderate, or questioning of your experiences with the costume as none of these are my intention. I'm just naturally curious about them (the CS trousers) is all.

I mentioned cotton twill thinking of Magnoli's cotton twill trousers in goldenrod in mind. As well, dress slacks like dockers are made of cotton twill and the feel of dockers are much different than, say, a wool trouser. And I've actually had what possibly are delusions ( ) that my cotton twill pleated dress trousers actually move somewhat similar to Indy's in the film.

I guess as a side note (once again ), I was wondering about the epaulettes and pleats on the Indy 4 shirt in relation to Magnoli's. In the stills I've seen, I'm really thinking that the pleats and epaulettes are wider than the ones on Magnoli's shirts. Any thoughts on that aspect of the costume?

I would go with the Camel color bc that's the color I have and it seems pretty spot on. As for the pleats and epaulettes, you are correct. The pleats aren't THAT much wider than Magnoli's, but the epaulettes definitely are.

Kyle

I know that the type of leather used in the jackets and the felt used for the hats was taken into account due to the amount of water that would be on set.
Perhaps they did the same thing with the pants and went with a material that was more suited to getting wet.

kwad wrote:I know that the type of leather used in the jackets and the felt used for the hats was taken into account due to the amount of water that would be on set.
Perhaps they did the same thing with the pants and went with a material that was more suited to getting wet.

If you read interviews with Bernie Pollack that is exactly what he did.

Watching KOTCS again on Blu-Ray, you can see a shine to the pants (especially in the first scenes in Roswell) that doesn't look especially wool-like...A touch synthetic...I'd guess that the wool trousers were replaced with a decent substitute for the damage/cost and overall look this time out...

I could be wrong, as it's just my impression, but the pants don't look like my cavalry wool set and they "shine" differently in the movie....I think....So yeah, I'd agree that it's more than possible..

knibs7 wrote:Maybe it's a Canadian display thing because when the costume was here in Houston, they were DEFINITELY Aldens.

Kyle

Man, this thing was in HOuston and I MISSED IT!!!!!


Geez, I have to get internet...........

This whole finding out things months/years after the fact is hurting.....

Wait there's another Houstonian here?!? Awesome!

... Ya the Indy costume and some of the props were here in Houston a little more than a year ago at Space Center Houston

Kyle