Roo hide falls

[WhipDude]

I have some stock whips that have roo hide falls on them. It's not terribly common to find whip makers doing this. I've asked some other whip artists about this before but apparently they don't have much experience with them either.

I'm curious to see what the general opinion is of roo hide falls. I'm pretty sure I know my opinion, but I want to see if others agree so I won't say just yet.

[louiefoxx]

I think Roo falls are much more common on stockwhip than bullwhips due to the traditionally thinner point. It makes matching the fall to the point much easier.

Also if I remember correctly I think Simon Martin has switched to using roo falls.

Louie

[WhipDude]

I couldn't help but laugh at your reply Louie.

My stocks are from Simon Martin.

Do you have actual experience with using whips that have a roo hide fall? My question wasn't so much about why/how they are used as it is about performance.

[louiefoxx]

I've never used roo falls, but if Simon makes them then a lot of top Australian guys use them.

Louie

[Indiana County Jr.]

This is a question I have thought about as well. I would like to try one on my bullwhips and see if there was a difference in handling. Let me know how it turns out.

Allen

[WhipDude]

Country Junior, I have my opinion but I'm holding off. I'll share it with you once I get some opinions on the subject. If I were you, I'd hold off until we get some good feedback. Otherwise you may be stuck with a roo fall on your whip and they aren't exactly easy or cheap to obtain.

Louie, I know that people like Ben Hughes prefer roo for falls. I have no doubt that they last a long time as mine are still in excellent condition after about 2 years. I guess these falls can last 5+ years.

I personally an just noticing a very big difference between white hide and roo hide.

[riku1914]

Personally, I wouldn't use roo for a fall except for on one of the mini 8" whips. I think they're too thin and would jump around too

much. I like stuff 4mm and thicker, I've used some thin leather for a fall ( about 2 mm, not nearly as thin as roo ) and it was way

too thin.

[tomek9210]

I think roo hide falls suit stockwhips, because they are fairly lightweight whips. My understanding is - light whip needs light fall and heavy whip needs heavy fall. Whips made by Australian whipmakers are light (except for CS whips), so that can be the point. It all depends on weight.
Personally I haven't used such falls on any of my whips.

[riku1914]

I think roo hide falls suit stockwhips, because they are fairly lightweight whips. My understanding is - light whip needs light fall and heavy whip needs heavy fall. Whips made by Australian whipmakers are light (except for CS whips), so that can be the point. It all depends on weight.
Personally I haven't used such falls on any of my whips.

I've experience the same thing, light whips - light falls, but my 4ft. stock whip has a 2.5mm thick white hide fall on it, and it

works better than 2mm stuff I also tried, so again, for me, I wouldn't use roo for a fall, and I CERTAINLY would not go and buy a

roo hide just to try it. If you make whips and have some spare roo sitting around, which I do, then maybe I'd try it ( probably will

in near future ) but I wouldn't buy one just to try it.

[WhipDude]

Funny that nobody around here has ever used roo hide for falls.

Since I'm not getting any responses....

I'm on the fence. They seem to last long and the color compliments my whips. They also grip really tight onto the cracker. They don't take a lot of conditioning either.
What I don't like is how they practically float. When I use other whips, they feel like they are piercing through the air. Granted, my other whips are bulls of different sizes which is what I'm use to. I have used another whip artists stocks and they felt different. Funny because a couple of you hinted at the weight. I have to give a little more wrist movement to get a good crack. Still gentle movement, but more movement.

I'll have to try more whips in the future with roo hide falls before I make any final opinion. For the moment, I'm simply on the fence.

[riku1914]

roo hide falls "float" like that since they are more flat than round, (being anywhere from .8-1.2mm thick, depending on what

type you have ) they catch air a lot easier than a normal fall, and don't carry their momentum as well, being so "flat"

A normal fall is anywhere from 2.5mm-5mm thick, depending on what type of whip you're using and the type of leather is being

used for the fall. These whips are more round, and since they are heavier, they carry their momentum better, and cut the

air.

[WhipDude]

And I haven't just made that observation already?

[thefish]

Whips made by Australian whipmakers are light (except for CS whips), so that can be the point. It all depends on weight.

I'd say that SOME Australian whipmakers make light whips. Some don't.

The whips from Bernie W. that I've handled tended to be FAR heavier than similar whips from Strain, Morgan, or any other non-Aussie whipmaker.

Both the bullwhips and stockwhips that Cecil Henderson was turning out in the between the 1920s and the 1960's were on the heavier side. Now the modern whips used for routine competition by such greats as Ben Hughes are light by nature because they are a "high performance" tool designed for that type of athletic application. One probable reason for roo falls being more common in Australia, is that the fancy double-handed competitive style of cracking is more common than anywhere else, (and I wish that would change. The judging rules for Australian competition are just as defined and rigid as the judging rules for Olympic Gymnastics and Figure Skating. We have Curling as an Olympic Sport. Why not competitive whip cracking?)

In competition, it's rare that Ben's whips even touch the ground. The abuse they're taking is acceleration and the tension of the hairpin turning. Roo is great for that! Not so much for the abraision of target cutting, arena, combative, stunt and theatrical work more common in the American whip artistry tradition. Whitehide and latigo are probably the better choice for those folks.

For a "work whip" Aussies make them just as big, heavy, mean, and rugged as anyone else.

Just my two cents! Thanks for sharing the info!

-D

[WhipDude]

My whips are competition style from Simon Martin. Whom also makes whips favored by Ben Hughes. And I use them predominately for two handed routines.

But the thing is that they still feel as if they float. I wonder what Hughes, Martin, and others say about this in comparison to other falls?

[tomek9210]

Thanks for pointing the weight subject Dan. I didn't know that. And you have clarified what's the purpose of roo hide falls.
Thanks a lot!

[CatsMeow]

I have a 5ft 12 plait Simon Martin stockwhip with a roohide fall. It seems thicker then then what he used to make the overlay but still alot lighter then the white alum tanned fall on some of my other whips. Floaty is a good way to describe it and I think I probably like the denser white alum fall better but with a matched bailing twine popper on it still cracks great and I don’t notice it too much when cracking fast.

I was always told that that Australian whip makers prefer to make lighter weighted whip thongs in comparison to American bullwhips but that they started making heavier whips because of the demand for Australian roo whips in an American market that demanded more weighty whips.

Thefish, Are you a competition whip cracker? I’ve only seen Cecil Hendersons work in books and online but from the sounds of it you have a lot of hands on experience with them. Are they much heavier compared to someone like Simons, Terry Jackas, Mike Murphys or Chris Bars? Do you have much experience with other Australian stockwhips from that past era made by Simon Fraser, Jimmy Hill or Alex Scobie? how do they compare?

[thefish]

I am not a competition whip cracker, in either the Australian "Routine Cracking" or American "Target Cutting" variety. I find the Australian style interesting, impressive, and a lot of fun to watch, but I don't do it. I'm not a really competitive kinda guy.

And I have had the privilage of handling a couple whips that Cecil Henderson made back in the 50's, and they were quite heavy by comparison to most other stockwhips I've handled, including Simon Martin, Chris Barr, Mike Murphy, Janine Fraser, and Terry Jacka, (and they were absolutely beautiful!) I have not had the honor to handle anything by Simon Fraser, James Hill or Alex Scobie, (yet.)

I honestly prefer bullwhips to stockwhips, and I have no qualifying statements to back up that preference, other than it is just a preference, so I'm not the best person to discuss this with. Just wanted to chime in with my own personal observations.

All the best, and happy cracking!

[CatsMeow]

Thanks thefish, gotcha . When it comes to whips I love it all and want to learn it all but was also taught that whip cracking is all about personal preferences so I understand where you’re coming from, you like what you like.

You should try competing sometime though if you ever get a chance. Its fun to challenge yourself against other whip crackers. You’d be amazed just how much more you learn and how your own ability improves just from that. Sure sometimes you win and sometimes you loose but it’s all in fun anyway and you can end up winning prizes, which is always a bonus!

[jeanfifi]

I prefer roo hide falls on my stockwhips, and some more heavy leather to build falls for bullwhips.

But I'd be very interested to try roo hide falls on bullwhips one day......

JP