Club Obi Wan

Before I say anything, I just want everyone to take this in a serious and mature way. I honestly feel like this is a problem. Here recently I have been going up to a public park (after acquiring approval from a happy customer, the park ranger!) and cracking my whip. I usually gather a crowd who are just curious about this guy with a bullwhip. This last time I had a heckler. That's not to out of the ordinary to get someone who is just rude watching. But he keep shooting comments about the sexual nature that some people associate with whips. He got so bad that I eventually just packed up and left. Afterwards, I began thinking. I feel like I get more comments about the inappropriate nature of whips than I do about the positive side. My question is, how do you guys deal with comments like this. If it's someone who just is uninformed I tell them "Whips have the ability to easily lacerate skin and possible break bones", which always news to people. But every now and then I just get that one person who finds himself funny and feels the need to keep going. Maybe I should clarify that it's not hecklers that are the problems here. Just those certain comments. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned when I let this stuff bother me. I hope this thread doesn't get me into any trouble though. Mods, if you find it too inappropriate then please feel free to take it down. I just want to know what everyone else does/thinks.

Thanks for any advise
Luke
Meyerwhips.com

I've had a few hecklers myself, it's quite frustrating, but other than just ignoring them I'm not sure what else we can really do about it. It's normally just teenagers with nothing better to do.
As to the more "adult" use of whips, every time my hobby is mentioned to someone new ( friends or family), that is the first thing that comes out of their mouths. It made me pretty red in the face the first dozen or so times, but you get to a point where it won't bother you. The best defense is to say a joke or something that will turn the tables catch them of guard, or make them feel a bit uncomfortable. That'll get everyone laughing about it, and you can explain how there are many things a whip could be used for including adult play. Actually that would probably be the best way to counter your hecklers as well. All the best comedians never got mad or defensive to hecklers, they always turn the tables and get folks to laugh at them instead. Maybe you could prepare a few witty comebacks so you'll be ready for them the next time around.

stoneman wrote:I've had a few hecklers myself, it's quite frustrating, but other than just ignoring them I'm not sure what else we can really do about it. It's normally just teenagers with nothing better to do.
As to the more "adult" use of whips, every time my hobby is mentioned to someone new ( friends or family), that is the first thing that comes out of their mouths. It made me pretty red in the face the first dozen or so times, but you get to a point where it won't bother you. The best defense is to say a joke or something that will turn the tables catch them of guard, or make them feel a bit uncomfortable. That'll get everyone laughing about it, and you can explain how there are many things a whip could be used for including adult play. Actually that would probably be the best way to counter your hecklers as well. All the best comedians never got mad or defensive to hecklers, they always turn the tables and get folks to laugh at them instead. Maybe you could prepare a few witty comebacks so you'll be ready for them the next time around.

I'd like to see you turn it on him somehow that'd be hilarious. When i first started cracking and making whips the first thing that

came out of my friends and some of my family's mouth was something similar or "I hope you don't turn into... well I'm not gonna

say it "

But yeah do something to turn it back on him. Make the crowd laugh

Actually, I have people say things like that all the time.
At first, I was nervous to let people watch me practice, and jokes like that only made it worse.

Now, I find myself enjoying when people watch me.
I realized that they were watching me because they thought it was really cool and interesting. (Honestly, how often do people see someone use a bullwhip besides in a movie or at the circus.)

When I do get the S&M comments, I just laugh it off and go into one of my rants about it being the first supersonic tool and the physics behind the crack, demonstrate the different types of cracks.......etc.
If they are going to watch, I give them the best show I can.


However, if you do get a jerk, one of those guys that is irritating and just won't go away, you could ask him if he is looking for a "Master" and tell him he has a "purty mouth".

Just don't get yourself beat up. Some people are just born A-Holes and sometimes walking away IS the best solution.

Good luck, Luke.

This is an interesting topic. I learned to juggle in Balboa Park in the 1980's from a couple of street juggler friends (I guess you'd call then buskers now). I worked as a volunteer docent at the Aerospace Museum on the weekends and would spend my lunch hour watching them. Dealing with hecklers was a fine art with them, and a friend of mine made a small book containing all the lines they'd use. Stuff like "I'd have a battle of wits with you, but I won't fight an unarmed person". I still use some lines I learned back then when I teach, like after presenting something and getting a non-response from my students; "I can tell by your stunned silence that you're not particularly impressed".

Anyway, I'd say the best way to deal with hecklers is to have a pretty strong sense of humor and a thick skin. Most people aren't mean-spirited and if you can fire back something humorous at them, they usually end up respecting you. There's always that one in a thousand who's a real nasty person, and the art there is to recognize them quickly and walk away from the fight you cannot win.

Doing anything in public can be a good workout for your ego, kinda like an improvisational Toastmasters. The problem is out on the street, things are a lot less predictable.

Luke,
I think Stoneman and Squiffy made very good points, but it is a case-by-case thing where some clowns (and no disrespect to actual clowns here) can be put back in their place if you make EVERYBODY part of your reply; in other words if everyone around hears your comments then everyone is involved in the situation and while onlookers may not necessarily get up to defend you, if you can answer with wit and not with aggressiveness, which is what nimrods usually expect, then you are not offering anything for them to bounce back at you, but you are also disarming them by presenting something they never saw coming.

Having said that, be aware that if you take an approach that puts them down in a confrontational manner, some people will forget that they instigated the whole thing and may in fact become confrontational or even violent. But there is no reason to let them push you around, unless you feel threatened, in which case you should report them officially and get them thrown out.

This is ALWAYS coming from the same type of people who will intimidate, humiliate or even bully others if they have an audience... because what's the point of putting someone else down if there is nobody to validate it? People like this tend to be very conformist and easily feel uncomfortable when faced with non conformity. You cannot reason with them because reason has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with their own insecurity and nothing to do with you, at lest not you personally.

As a final thought, you need to accept that whipcracking is something that is seen as marginal by many and it will from time to time, elicit strong reactions from some people, in much the same way as someone dressed extravagantly will. It shouldn't be like that, but it is and being aware of that is something that comes with the territory I'm afraid. But just keep in mind that context is everything; if some guy sees a very attractive woman cracking a whip, his comments may be salacious as well but he may also be intrigued and not aggressive. Whereas if the same guy sees another guy cracking a whip, he may either react with respect or not depending on what where the person cracking the whip fits in his concept of the world. The two may be cracking whips in the same way, but because the heckler perceives the two differently, his reaction will be different. It just really depends on the individual, but being able to recognize the type of person that is giving you a hard time quickly is important too; it's a whole lot of psychology to just be able to crack whips I know but them's the breaks.

Just stay safe.

Franco

For some performers, giving it right back to the heckler is the way to go, but you've got to watch it with the way certain performers are percieved. Clowns and jugglers can often get away with ridiculing the heckler into silence, (especially if they can do so with incredible wit and style.) But, for a whip act or a knife throwing act, that's not always the case.

Robert Dante and the late Brian Chic have/(had) an interesting approach to this. As the person with the whip, you are in the percieved "Position of Power," and in their burlesque/cabaret performances it was VERY important for them to place their performance partner in control in many ways. Robert and Brian had very different ways of doing this, (Robert with considerable stage business to puposely make him look a bit pompous and to let his partner get the better of him in the audience's eyes, and Brian by maintaining his owlish, nebbish appearance, looking like an accountant with a bullwhip. One of my favorite pieces of Brian's was that he'd do very impressive wraps on a dancer. At the end of the performance, the music would end, Brian would smile, and gesture for his partner to join him with open arms, and the dancer would walk toward him, smack him in the face, and walk off stage, leaving him dumbfounded. Very Buster Keaton...)

As I said, Clown and Jugglers can get away with sinking to the heckler's level because they're there already. Most clowns and jugglers start their shows on the premise that they're whimsical and a little South of Sanity, therefore the audience can laugh and be entertained from a position of superiority. A heckler attacking THEM automatically has the bulk of the audience against them, because regardless of the incredible skill and intelligence the performer has, heckling is still seen as "Picking on the little guy." Therefore, the ability of the performer to give it right back in spades is appauded, encouraged, and can actually make the show better.

Doing a show as an "Authority," your audience has different expectations. You have a whole different dynamic with them. A heckler at one of those shows isn't a bully. He's "One of Them." As such, the "Authority," the "Guy with the Whip," can quickly become the bad guy if he sinks to a similar level of ridicule.

I did a show once where I had a bit of a heckler, and I was skirting the clown/authority boundry pretty closely. I'd done this act, (same character, most of the same business,) on and off for a number of years, but I'd only recently added some bits with a bullwhip. I shot right back at him a couple times and at one point cracked the whip at him, (albeit playfully. I was going to cut a target, and he cried "Choke!" from the crowd behind me. I did a reverse underhand toward the rear, not even looking. The crowd where he was located was WELL behind me, FAR beyond the reach of the whip,) It got a laugh, but it was a rather timid one, and I could feel the audience slipping away. If I hadn't had the whip, that wouldn't have happened. I was the "clown" in those shows, and could have laid into the guy with insults about his mother, and the crowd would have still loved it. But with the whip in my hand, it was different.

So, if you're doing an infotainment kind of show, (talking about the speed of the whip, the power of it, the danger it CAN represent, but what it was historically used for and what it WASN'T used for,) I find it best to use heckler comments of that type to call out the stereotypes. Point out that there's a large number of different tools that fall under the classification of whips, and that popular media has really confused the whole issue.

Use the heckler as an opportunity to dispell the myth. You are the authority. Be the authority: "...Actually no. That is a common misconception, though, created primarily because the type of whip that I'm using looks very dramatic on stage and motion pictures, so theatrical performers and directors have exercised creative license and used these. The truth is..." (in fact, for "Infotainment" shows, I carry a number of other whips. Buggy whip, Flogger, Sjambok, etc. to show what was ACTUALLY used versus what you see in the movies.)

In my performances, I came to a point that I had two distinct shows. A "Clown" show and an "Authority" show. In the "Clown" show, the whip is really not the focus. It's a prop. I cut MAYBE 2 targets in the whole whip business, and the rest of the time, play the "Clown" trying to LOOK like an "Authority," and failing miserably, ("Hitting" myself with the whip a couple times, while expousing how "Safe" it is. This also adds tension when I do actually cut targets people are holding, but then I do, and it's all fine, and the Ineptitude is all part of the act that people are in on.)

The "Authority" show is just that, and I don't heckle back. I merely put the heckler in their place with calm, humorous, factual information, (7 years teaching college helped A LOT with that!)

thefish wrote:The "Authority" show is just that, and I don't heckle back. I merely put the heckler in their place with calm, humorous, factual information, (7 years teaching college helped A LOT with that!)

AMEN!

Aldo.

Not a heckler - perhaps the furthest thing from:

I was out cracking today deep in Golden Gate Park and a cyclist shouted (as he zoomed past on a trail): "Indy! Covah yah haaaaaht!"

(I wasn't even wearing a hat!)

A lot has been said here about heckling, so I won't even go there. I think the other basic issue at hand here, though, is simply the fact that as people who crack whips, we are always going to be associated with "lifesyle" whip-crackers, as someone once put it. And before I go any further, I'd just like to say that I am not making any judgments about that, and recognize that there must be some of our own members here who use the whip in the bedroom, etc. I do not myself, but even if I did, it would be beside point that I am here to make.

What bothers me is not heckling, but simply the fact using the whip for kinky purposes seems to be the first thing that people feel the need to bring up when they engage in conversation with me about the whip. Now, I perform for a lot of children's birthday parties, and obviously, the kids don't bring it up, and very rarely do the parents bring it up, and if/when they do, it's always sort of a "lean-in close, whisper" kind of a comment, even if there aren't kids around, to which they laugh on their own, expecting me to play along and share the joke. Depending on the level of the joke, whether it's a man or woman (and how attractive she is ) I may or may not play along. Typically, I don't, because while I make no judgment, as I said, I don't want to encourage that perspective. And for the record, I once made an appearance in SF for an AIDS fund-raiser. There were a lot of gay men there, many of whom wanted to flirt with me for a sec, drawing attention to the whip. Not wanting to be rude (and being perfectly comfortable with my own sexuality) I played along just enough to make sure they felt that they were being responded to with affability.

As stated above, whips have many uses. I break it down this way:

a) as a tool for driving animals/livestock
b) as a stunt performer's weapon/tool
c) as a hobbyist's/performer's tool
d) as an item used in the bedroom as associated with a fetish.

I think it would be fair to say that the majority of us fall under b and c, as does HF/Indiana Jones. I know some of our members here use it for animals, and perhaps some use it in the bedroom, but to the average person with a drink in their hand at a Halloween party, it's all about d. Perhaps when they make these comments (as I often suspect), they are half admitting their own little fantasies, which is fine, but as I said, I avoid encouraging it.

Of course, look at me in this photo, and I'm sure I sound like a total hypocrite.



This is one of the only instances ever in costume when I sort of gave in and used the whip to play a little. But I would like to point out that I was actually paid for this appearance (and she was cute, what would you have done? ). It was a corporate party, and as the evening went on everyone started dancing; as I was still on the clock, I felt the need to go with the flow. I felt a little strange disco-dancing as Indy, but hey, you do what you gotta do.

That said, 99.44% of the time, when people want to make "whips in the bedroom" jokes, I get frustrated. As a performer, and as an Indy "impersonator", I want to perform with and inform people about the whip; I want them to be impressed, interested and entertained, and I want to do everything I can to re-focus their understanding and impression of what whips can be and are used for.

As a hobbyist/performer, for me the whip is akin to juggling or rope tricks or martial arts; it's just something to do with your hands/body because it's fun, it's interesting, it takes skill, there are progressions, and it's not the kind of the thing you see everyday. This is what I want people to respond to.



Daren Henry

Daren,
couldn't have said it better myself.

I am very much like-minded as you and I would have done the exact same thing with the girl (I mean come on!)

I too dislike the automatic association with "the scene", but I also realize that it says more about the one making the comment than it does you. Ignorant fools will always abound I'm afraid and to get upset over something that is entirely on them is just a bloody waste of time. Besides, I'll bet you were the coolest #### at the party so fooey to the rest!

I adore the pic of you practicing with the young boy! It reminded me of when I was showing my ex's son (whom I love like my own) how to crack a whip when he was 6 years old or something. I had to crouch behind him because he was so small and in that position, every time I would bring the whip forward, it would slap me in the behind, but I was doing it for him and I didn't care. The smile on his face was worth 100 slaps! So good on ya!
Cheers,

Franco

InexorableTash wrote:Not a heckler - perhaps the furthest thing from:

I was out cracking today deep in Golden Gate Park and a cyclist shouted (as he zoomed past on a trail): "Indy! Covah yah haaaaaht!"

(I wasn't even wearing a hat!)

That was Short Round speak for, "Indy cover heart!"

DHW

Canuck Digger wrote:Daren,
couldn't have said it better myself.

I am very much like-minded as you and I would have done the exact same thing with the girl (I mean come on!)

I too dislike the automatic association with "the scene", but I also realize that it says more about the one making the comment than it does you. Ignorant fools will always abound I'm afraid and to get upset over something that is entirely on them is just a bloody waste of time. Besides, I'll bet you were the coolest #### at the party so fooey to the rest!

I adore the pic of you practicing with the young boy! It reminded me of when I was showing my ex's son (whom I love like my own) how to crack a whip when he was 6 years old or something. I had to crouch behind him because he was so small and in that position, every time I would bring the whip forward, it would slap me in the behind, but I was doing it for him and I didn't care. The smile on his face was worth 100 slaps! So good on ya!
Cheers,

Franco

Thanks, Franco.

I appreciate that! Yeah, and as far as people thinking I'm just generally weird or a geeky fanboy, if they are strangers, I don't really give a @#$%. If they are family, extended family, friends, acquaintances, etc., well, then it can give me a moment to consider how I'm being perceived, but I've been at this pretty seriously for a few years now, and most seem to get it. They pretty much all know that I've trained with "someone from Hollywood" (Anthony), that I perform, and that I entertain for kids. They see that I'm serious and passionate about it, and that it's productive.

Additionally, I'm a high school teacher, and I wear some type of fedora (not always brown) to school just about every day. Most students who don't know me, refer to me as Indiana Jones. Half of it is a kind of "he's cool" thing, the other half, of course is a "he's a dork" thing. Many students also know, through rumors (though true) that I crack whips. I actually had a student, whom I'd never met before, ask me,

"Is it true you carry a rope with you every day?"

"No," I said, showing him that I was 'unarmed', "I don't carry a rope at all with me anywhere. And if you are referring to my bullwhips, yes I know a few (many), and no, I don't bring them to school" (which is another white lie, since I have brought them a couple of times for little demos). He smiled showing that he was impressed and glad to verify more or less what he had heard.

Luckily, high school students know almost nothing about the "scene", so I've never had to deal with any of them (at least not within earshot) bring that up.

DHW

My wife, an attractive black female, cracks her whip at the local park and takes an entirely different approach. Rather than arguing/discussing/educating with them, which offers validation to their nonsense (aka making eye contact), she simply agrees with them. Its the same approach that she uses with birthers and other conspiracy nuts--she claims you can never win an argument with a crackhead, so just diffuse the situation and agree with them. "Yes, I use this whip on my husband every day. Why don't you come over here and find out" is her usual response. The irony of the situtation doesnt go unnoticed here in Kentucky when a black woman with a whip in her hand glares at you. They either shut up and become her "fan club" or immediately walk away.

usersatch wrote:My wife, an attractive black female, cracks her whip at the local park and takes an entirely different approach. Rather than arguing/discussing/educating with them, which offers validation to their nonsense (aka making eye contact), she simply agrees with them. Its the same approach that she uses with birthers and other conspiracy nuts--she claims you can never win an argument with a crackhead, so just diffuse the situation and agree with them. "Yes, I use this whip on my husband every day. Why don't you come over here and find out" is her usual response. The irony of the situtation doesnt go unnoticed here in Kentucky when a black woman with a whip in her hand glares at you. They either shut up and become her "fan club" or immediately walk away.

Awesome.

DHW

Well I have to say,
After hearing about some of the bad/weird experiences you folks have had, I consider myself very lucky. So far no one has bugged or heckled me when I was out and about. Usually if anyone approached me, they would say "I don't see how you do that or I never saw any move like that in an Indy movie...."

Allen