does the turn "fall out"?

[CaptainKatanga]

Hello "Cow-ers",
I was wondering if, when a hat gets broken in, "the turn" ever falls out? i.e. does the brim start to lose the swoops once the hat adjusts to "the turn"?

Regards,
CaptainKatanga

[Chewbacca Jones]

That depends, really. I find that my own head doesn't do much to a turned a hat unless it's turned too much (or the hat is tight). Thus, if the stiffener doesn't hold the turn in, I don't have one. But if you've a noggin that puts stress in the right spots, the brim might change according to that. Frankly, some of the best swoops I've seen have been on heavily worn hats.

Keep in mind, this is an observation made by a non-professional who just wears a lots of hats.

[Ian]

From my experience (not that much); My Penman Raiders is the only turned hat I have (Edit - I've got 2, I forgot the Henry ). I've had it maybe 6 months and the distortion caused by the turn has set into my hat even when it's not on my head. The brim swoop is very evident now even when I'm just holding it, so I guess on my hat the effects of the turn are there to stay.. .......Placing it on my head does slightly increase brim distortion, but not much....

Ian

[Indiana Jeff]

I have a third-hand AB that's at least 6 years old and nice broken in. Like Ian, my brim swoop is evident even when I'm not wearing my lid.

Though, like Chewie said, if your hat isn't slightly tight fitting with the turn, the swoop won't be nearly as apparent.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[DR Ulloa]

Felt has memory. The memory that holds your crease into shape after you've sat on your hat is the same memory that retains the brim swoop. When I look at my beaver Penman, my only turned hat, the crown opening has actually warped to my head off center. If I look at the hat straight on he underside, it looks like it was blocked lopsided, so the what has become the center of he hat now because of the turn looks straight. It has conformed, but retains the swoop ncuaae of the memory inherent in the felt. Make sense? Cause I'm not sure that did.

Dave

[BendingOak]

Im going to throw everyone for a loop on this one. My beaver Raiders hat when laying flat on the table is almost can't tell it's turned. If you look from above you can tell from the cut of the brim. when I place it on my head. Thats when you will see the turn. From the pressure of the head on to the off center hat make the brim warp. Its true that felt has memory as if you sit on a hat ( with little stiffener in it ) it will op into place. thats what most is most likely see in their hats. Mine, I throw it flat on my table.

I hope that makes sense.

[binkmeisterRick]

I don't think it's a loop, John. If you have more of a long oval head shape (or just have a funky cranium ), your head will create a turn easily based on the pressure points of your noggin against the hat. Those folks can get away with a "regular" hat and create a turn when worn. If you are more of a round skull, you don't have that advantage and have to rely more on the "forced turn," or bash of the hat to gain that effect. My head shape doesn't lend itself to a naturally exaggerated turn so much.

Actually, I think I just essentially repeated what you just said.

[BendingOak]

You can still get a turn with a round oval it's just a little tricky.

[binkmeisterRick]

It just requires rebashing your head.

[Dalexs]

It just requires rebashing your head.

Sure, why not!

[BendingOak]

I wonder if I can get that as a resizing tool for mymcustomers?

[Deputy Jedi]

I wonder if I can get that as a resizing tool for mymcustomers?

Be gentle!

[Chewbacca Jones]

It'll hurt less if you apply a bit of steam.

[Ian]

So, assuming you are like John and have a practically flat brim before donning the lid; Will the act of wearing the turned lid still produce the brim warp or will the crown eventually stop warping the brim because it's conformed to the new shape after years of sustained stresses?....Oooooorrr.....Does the reed stop this?



Ian

[binkmeisterRick]

Hopefully this illustration will describe things a little better.



While exaggerated for effect, I think it helps to get the point across. If you have a long oval head, and the hat is blocked to your head shape, turning the hat while it's on your head will put added pressure on the sweatband as indicated in the illustration. This will naturally distort the brim and produce a warping effect. However, if you have a rounder head, and the hat is blocked to your head shape, turning the hat while worn has less of an effect as you still maintain a more even pressure along most parts of the sweatband in comparison to long oval wearers.

When you turn the fedora of a traditionally blocked hat, you will get varying degrees of brim distortion (as indicated by being either more of a long or round oval) but the hat may be physically uncomfortable for some wearers. This is why some hatters build this effect into their hats. By doing so, they can shape the hat to fit the head normally and comfortably while still providing a visually distorted brim.

So if you lay your hat flat on a table and the brim lays flat, this may be due to the effect being caused when worn, as opposed to being built into the hat. Additionally, the thickness, floppiness, or amount of stiffener in the hat may also contribute.

Does this help?

[Ian]

Cheers Bink!!

I thought that CaptainKatanga was asking whether the distortion due to actually wearing the hat turned would subside over time as the hat got 'used' to the new shape of the 'off-centre' oval i.e. eventually, turning the hat would not distort the brim.

Do the effects of the turn rely on the crown returning to it's original shape after the hat is removed?

Ian

[binkmeisterRick]

I think the felt thickness, amount of stiffener/softness, how the hat is bashed, etc., factors into whether or not the brim warp stays in place when not worn. If the hat was made with the turn built in, and was incredibly stiff (like a Downtowner, say), then the brim would remain warped whether worn or not. I have several vintage fedoras where the brim warps if worn a little off center, but there is no evidence of it when removed. These hats have soft, pliable felt and the sweats have a standard reed. I'd wonder if a wire reed mighty affect that some, but I think it would have to be irreversibly bent to do that. One hat I turned, and recreased, left a memory in the pinch when I tried to return it to its original shape after some time.

But if the hat is turned, then the brim should distort when worn, regardless of how old/new/worn the hat is because you are still wearing the hat "against the grain," so to speak.

[Indiana Bugs]

If your brim distortion is there when you remove your hat, it should stay there if you either hang or place the hat upside down. If you leave it on a flat surface brim side down, I think the resulting brim shape would depend on a number of factors: length and number of times left that way, room humidity and temperature. The larger any of these numbers are, the more the brim will change shape. Putting it back on your head will bring the brim back to where you want it to be, but storing it with an 'unstressed' brim will more easily keep it the way you want it.

[PsychicsAndSwords]

Hmm, when I got my Penman Raiders a couple of weeks ago, the brim had pretty much completely flattened during shipping, and when I tried to unflatten it, it just looked like a regular non-swoopy brim. I just played around with the shape of the brim, on and off a few times, and the swoop is really showing (and staying) now. And the hat is slightly loose so it isn't really being altered by my head distorting it in any way. Based on this (extremely limited!) experience, I'd say the 'turn' is the main factor, but part of it is just the way it's shaped after all is said and done? I dunno. I'll go back to my cage now and let the people who know what they're talking about answer the question.

[CaptainKatanga]

Cheers Bink!!

I thought that CaptainKatanga was asking whether the distortion due to actually wearing the hat turned would subside over time as the hat got 'used' to the new shape of the 'off-centre' oval i.e. eventually, turning the hat would not distort the brim.

Do the effects of the turn rely on the crown returning to it's original shape after the hat is removed?

Ian

This was indeed the thrust of my original question. Thanks all for your explanations and experiences!!
Regards,
CaptainKatanga