Describe the "Ultimate" Jacket...screen accurate or not

[ron521]

If you had access to a master tailor who could make any jacket you want, what features would you specify?

For me, I'd start by saying it is much more important to me that the jacket work as a "real world" jacket, and if I have to give up some degree of screen accuracy to achieve better function in the real world, I will do so without hesitation.

My jacket starts with a proper fit in the shoulders. In this context, "proper" means that the shoulder seams are at the edge of my natural shoulders.
This prevents the jacket from moving side to side, or rotating backwards down off my shoulders.
Indy's jacket on screen may have had wider shoulders, but no one in 1936 would have intentionally purchased a jacket that fit that way.
The "hanging off the shoulders" look is a screen device to make him look even more disheveled and sloppy, in contrast with his clean-cut and buttoned-down University Professor alter-ego.
My preference is to not look "like I've been beaten up by a German airplane mechanic" (as beautifully expressed by another member).
If one checks catalogs from the period (Fedora Lounge has them posted as a sticky), one can see how leather jackets were actually worn at the time.

The overall length of the jacket should be at least 25 inches, to completely cover my belt when wearing jeans. Some jackets are made 24 inches or less, to work with Indy's pants in the films, which were very high-waisted by modern standards.
At least since the 60's, it is uncommon to wear even khaki's so high. To look good wearing modern pants, 25 inches or more simply works better.

The action back should extend preferably all the way to the top of the shoulders, like a G1 (i.e. no yoke needed). No yoke means fewer seams, and fewer potential points of failure.
If we are going to have a yoke, it should be short, to provide maximum freedom of motion.

The adjustment straps for the action back should be attached with X-boxed stitching, not single-stitched.
Sliders or D-rings both work, although sliders might be slightly more secure once adjusted.

The zipper should be provided with facings. As the jacket is worn, the lining is likely to stretch a bit, and the leather may shrink (some owners intentionally shrink their jackets) which creates extra "slack" in the lining.
Facings take more effort and material to make, and cost more, but are important in keeping the lining away from the zipper.

Sleeves should be 8 or 9 inches wide at the bicep, 5 1/2 or 6 inches wide at the cuff, and reach to the first knuckle of the thumb with arms at side.
There should be a line of stitching around the sleeve 3/8 inch or so from the end to keep the cuff tucked in.
Adhesive tape or glue eventually fail if wetted.
Sleeves should be provided with two-piece gussets in the armpits to increase freedom of motion when raising arms.

I like a heavy nylon lining, but other materials can be durable and comfortable.

Leather selected is kind of a personal choice. At least as much depends on how the hide is tanned as what animal the hide came from.
For me, another personal choice is that it is important that the leather NOT be pre-distressed, weathered, or aged in any way.

Who makes such a garment at present?

A Magnoli or Wested could probably be made to these specs easily, even better for those who live in England or New Zealand.

The new US Wings Legend jacket seems pretty close (no gussets under the sleeves, but at least some do have zipper facings).
Current available skins for the Legend are all pre-distressed, but perhaps the bison will not be.
Would love to see this in undistressed cowhide or goatskin, similar to the offerings for their Signature Series.
Awaiting reviews when these finally reach owners.

G&B Expedition is admittedly "screen accurate", result is that off-the-rack sizes have shoulders too wide and sleeves too short, so often "feel strange" or "fall off" the wearer.
Also lacks zipper facings, but might be acceptable if made-to-order.

Todd's...unsure about current specs, sizing on website says nothing beyond chest size.

[Michaelson]

Yep, motorcycle jacket designs out there are made for real world wear, and not ALL of them look like they were designed to be worn by a member of the 'Sons of Anarchy' motorocycle gang.

Regards! Michaelson

[Michaelson]

Never SAID that....



Then again, with YOUR back, that'd be a lot of ink!

Regards! Michaelson

[Dr. Evil]

When it's frigidly cold and I'm doing one of my winter backpacking trips in knee-deep, dry, powdery snow, or when I'm just someplace cold, like NYC in late-January, my North Face McMurdo parka is the jacket for me. I found a white one online years ago and had to have it. It's the only one I've ever seen. Wearing that thing is like being hugged by a polar bear.

[Texan Scott]

The only way I could find a shortfall with the Indy jacket is that it is not exactly a practical jacket, but then again, it was not meant to be, just a leather covering. I like its unique design and features. Though it is not meant for artic weather, it has its place in the wardrobe. The jackets I've received have been very comfortable, three season jackets. If I want warmth, I'll opt for down or thinsulate. Those days are fewer here anyway.

All in all, I tend to 'grab' the jacket that best fits the conditions outside, rather than a 'goto' for all conditions. An Indy jacket is a fine choice for riding a motorcyle in warm conditions, or for navigating a concrete jungle in 45-50 degree weather.

[Long John Tinfoil]

Without giving it a whole lot of thought, I guess an A2 style with a light, modern insulation like Thinsulate, possibly in a detachable liner. I do remember a thread a year of so ago (?) about a jacket that was a "roughneck's" or "oil-driller's" or some such that looked pretty good, too.

LJ

[Michaelson]

I look toward my now no longer offered Wings German Flight jacket (last called the Bentz) that is a direct copy of a 1939 WW2 Luffwaffe flight jacket.

Regards! Michaelson

[djd]

Gosh. I don't think it would be a leather jacket at all. I'd probably have a variety of jackets for a variety of circumstances. I'm sure my wife would say I have too many already! I like the Indy jacket cos it looks like indy's jacket.... I wouldn't wear it to ride my bike but then I don't particularly like wearing my bike jackets when I'm not riding as they are, by their nature, fairly heavy and hot.

I don't like the bomber type jacket as I don't do that casual / smart thing. I'm either scruffy or smart. I hate that in between look.

[Michaelson]

Granted, motorcyle type jackets are indeed a bit heavier than the standard leather jacket, but in the case of my jacket the 'break even' point for temps seems to be the upper 60's. Anything there or lower and I'm fine.

The Indy jacket works well for me from the mid 40's and upward without layering. Let's face it, the more seams you have on any garment, the more air can get in. The Indy jacket is a pretty 'seamy' jacket, so layering is required when it gets chilly.

Regards! Michaelson

[djd]

Lol! My wife's words precisely. I'm either tux or jeans. Black tie or wife-beater...

I've been thinking about something like a "Three Layer" jacket to try to do that in between? I was wearing my Magnoli X-1 last week with a pair of dockers and polo for work - meetings at a clients in the UK. It was - bold? I wasn't looking to blend - I was really a little ticked we had to be there and was fine making a statement to that effect. The Wolverine jackets don't really "blend" but then I'm told neither do I.

You should have just extended the talons then they would have really got the hint....

Black tie twice for me last week! The time before that was a couple of years ago. Like buses, two turn up at once! Anything approaching summer and I'm in a vest top. Much to my step sons embarrasment. I'm pretty much infamous for dressing 'unsuitably' at work. But hey, I'm good at my job so stuff them.

I actually found this on the net just yesterday
http://itsacrime.typepad.com/its_a_crim ... they_.html
Para 7 about meeting the guy on the train was actually me back in about '94. Gadney, who the piece is about did some stuff for Lucas including a Young Indy screenplay.

Back on topic, I have a old leather car coat which I probably like more than most things and dresses up and down quite nicely.

If money suddenly became no object., Magnoli's Escape jacket in the distressed cow, looks stunning.

[tekors]

Mine is a lambskin Wested... At the time I bought it I wondered if I should have gotten a more custom SA jacket but after a time I was relieved I didn't. So I opted for the Standard one... it's more street wearable and more durable but still a Raiders jacket...only without some small details.

Mine has the zipper facings, and although the shoulder seams are off my shoulders, they don't bother me since they fit me right... never experienced rotations off the shoulders, movements side to side, at least for me (I think it depends also of the body type from person to person).
The overall length is also ok with me... not too short, not too long. The sleeves are also ok, and they are not tapered since mine jacket is the standard version, not 100% SA Raiders... this allows me to wear a sweater for instance.

In winter, I only use my jacket over a t-shirt and my hat... it warms me perfectly. But when it's really really cold, then I only wear a sweater under it... and voilá.

[Michaelson]

Sounds nice, but do you consider it an 'ultimate' jacket, as stated in the subject title?

I notice a lot of 'it's ok' in your description. Not exactly an 'ultimate' sounding description to me!

Regards! Michaelson

[Ian]

I rekon something like that Van Zan dude wears in Reign of Fire.



Really though, I reckon a G1 would do me just fine and dandy, idealy though, one without the knit cuffs - I'd rather have leather cuffs.

Ian

[tekors]

Sounds nice, but do you consider it an 'ultimate' jacket, as stated in the subject title?

I notice a lot of 'it's ok' in your description. Not exactly an 'ultimate' sounding description to me!

Regards! Michaelson

Ops, sorry for that Michaelson...
Mine jacket is the "the ultimate jacket" for me only. And to be honest I wonder if there's really an ultimate one.
It depends on each person. If you're satisfied with yours, so it's the jacket for you IMO.

Mine is very good for me.... maybe I would change it one thing here and there... nothing serious. But as the fedoras, a jacket can be really good for you but not that good for me. I can add things that would work and satisfy me but wouldn't for you.

well, that's what I think at least...
cheers
teko

[Michaelson]

[Ravenswood]

....I know!

The FONZIE jacket


The one I have is the official copy offered by Paramount from back in the day. I gather the original probably has a bit more substance to the lining, and its a little longer.
And on colder days, there's always a scarf!

[CM]

I'd go G&B if I had to choose an Indy. Fits brilliantly and has been adjusted and tailored by G&B to fit like a normal jacket and not slip around like the film version.

But the ultiamte jacket is probably a Californian Sportswear half-belt - like the jacket Tony Nowak got his design from for Surrogates

[soulman]

For me it would not be an Indy jacket. In my opinion the perfect jacket is the A-1. I love this thing! it has a very cool button up front and turtle neck collar. I have always wanted this precursor to the A-2 but as of yet it remains just out of reach. To me this is my "Holy Grail".

[Ravenswood]

....I know!

The FONZIE jacket


The one I have is the official copy offered by Paramount from back in the day. I gather the original probably has a bit more substance to the lining, and its a little longer.
And on colder days, there's always a scarf!

That's just too fxxxgxn cool my friend. I wanted one of those sooooo bad back in the day.

THANks _!
Yup, if I had my druthers, I would order a custom made Fonzie jacket in the same leather choice as the top pic in my post (seems halfway through the Happy Day's series, they switched the leather from cowhide to the smoother leather you see in that picture). I'm just too poor to afford a "Druthers Jacket" just yet

[CM]

Aero do a Happy Days number too I think.

[Weston]

Hmmm.....,

So much of this is about lifestyle and use. My job requires me to work a good deal outdoors, as well as in, from offices to construction sites, old crumbling buildings, to Forest Service lookouts and ranger stations. Really, everywhere! In my off time, I enjoy working on wilderness and survival skills. The Indy jacket really works for me because of it's versatility, freedom of movement, lightweight, and durability. The vents work well with the tools I carry, and the action back is great for driving.

The "ultimate" jacket will be an individual thing. For me, it would be a good fitting Indy jacket in Goat (though the Bison offering from Wings is intriguing!), with a heavy satin or cotton/poly lining, tapered sleeves, with rectangular sliders, and side vents above or at the level of the straps. I like patch pockets, so moisture can't enter the lining of the jacket in rough weather.

I don't know, with an Indy jacket, or any leather jacket for that matter, there are limitations. You can't ask for all the groceries to be in the same bag and not expect the bag to be heavy. A good hide, well made, and well fitting, let layering and leather dressing take care of the rest.

Weston

[CM]

We don't talk enough about weight here at COW. Serious leather jacket fans like those on Fedora Lounge seem to worship Aero (they are superb). The leather jacket collectors really go for (and these things are not necessarily bike jackets) horse hide half-belts which weigh around 6-7 pounds. For an Indy sized jacket. Compare that to a 3.5 pounds G&B goat Indy.

Man it gets cold over here too, but 6 pounds for a horsehide half-belt!!! I have owned such heavy jackets before and to me they pretty much **** because they are uncomfortable and awkward wearing and drag on the shoulders (even after a couple of years hard wearing). And it's not that I'm a little guy at 6 feet 2 and 185 pounds.

The hard core leather jacket fans on many sites swear by these everlasting, heavy, heavy jackets.

We may be obsessed with the Indy jacket but for most leather jacket buffs, the ultimate leather jacket isn't about screen accuracy, it's about the thickness and the weight of the hide.

[djd]

But surely that's the point isn't it? Most of us here are not vintage jacket fans as such, we're Indy fans who want a jacket that looks like the ones we see on screen. That's why Todds is so popular. It may be light weight but it captures the look which is the only reason many of us are here. I appreciate there are others here who are into vintage jackets and / or 'practical' jackets.

[Michaelson]

Can't argue with you there, CM.

There's a place for everything, and a really physically heavy jacket is perfect for super cold climes, but otherwise it's a closet hanger for me. It's also in what you get used to. One example would be our ALden 405's. GREAT shoes, but they wear some folks completely out due to their extra weight.

Heck, I drive a 2 ton car everyday. It gets me where I need to go, but there's no way I'd enter it into a race.

Heavy is great, but it's not for everyone in everyday usage.

I also get YOUR point, djd, but this thread is to allow folks to describe what THEY consider to be their 'ultimate' jacket. For some, as you say, it's to have a jacket 'just like Indy's as seen on screen'. For others, it's not and never was. It's about functionalality and/or comfort.

No one's wrong in this thread.

Regards! Michaelson

[djd]

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest anyone was wrong for one moment. Just there's clearly at least two very different points of view at work here

[Michaelson]

Oh, believe me, there's more than just 2.

Some want screen accuracy with no exception or deviation from same.

Some want SA, but comfort. (gussets anyone?)

Some want SA and comfort, but different specs as seen in frame 166, scene 3, 13 minutes into the film, only 14 hand tied whip stitched cotton threads in the left sleeve if you don't mind....

Some want neither SA OR comfort.....they want a 20 pound A2 made from ossified horsehide from an animal that lived during the Jurassic period, and ONLY that time period....

on and on and on.

'Ultimate' on an individual level will take on every form imaginable, and is only limited by an individual's imagination.

No 'right or wrong' about it, and always makes this kind of thread a safe one.

Regards! Michaelson

[tmurph]

Ohhhhh... I want that Fonz jacket. That would be the jacket that got me into leather jackets in the first place.

[CM]

Oh, believe me, there's more than just 2.

Some want screen accuracy with no exception or deviation from same.

Some want SA, but comfort. (gussets anyone?)

Some want SA and comfort, but different specs as seen in frame 166, scene 3, 13 minutes into the film, only 14 hand tied whip stitched cotton threads in the left sleeve if you don't mind....

Some want neither SA OR comfort.....they want a 20 pound A2 made from ossified horsehide from an animal that lived during the Jurassic period, and ONLY that time period....

on and on and on.

'Ultimate' on an individual level will take on every form imaginable, and is only limited by an individual's imagination.

No 'right or wrong' about it, and always makes this kind of thread a safe one.

Regards! Michaelson

Good one M. Yeah, I thought the point here was what people consider to be ultimate jacket - which may not have anything at all to do with the Indy films. Why else would fonzie come into all this?

[Michaelson]

Yep.

[Ravenswood]

Yup yup,
No question, I would love the most screen accurate Raiders jacket money can buy, but it's a little boring to come out and just say, "I'll have what George is having!"

[nicktheguy]

Hey! I did stunts on that show back in the day

I rekon something like that Van Zan dude wears in Reign of Fire.



Really though, I reckon a G1 would do me just fine and dandy, idealy though, one without the knit cuffs - I'd rather have leather cuffs.

Ian

[Flyderf]

For me, it's an accurate WWII A2 reproduction. I'm having one made by Good Wear Leather. John Chapman is regarded as one of the best at what he does. I want an A2 that looks like it was thrown at me by the Quartermaster in 1942. Authentic is the aim. I'm 3 months into a 6 month wait, and it can't pass quick enough.

I love everything about the A2. The history, the cut, the feel. It was my first leather jacket 25 years ago. Although it was an Avirex, what I knew then was enough to suffice the need. Fast forward to today, and I know a lot more thanks to this site and the others I know way more. I even know the difference between vegetable dyed, and chrome tanning! The A2 is true American culture. Even the Indy jacket has A2 influences that are evident. Wearing an A2 is like putting on a comfortable pair of jeans, it just feels right.

I'd also say the Gibson & Barnes makes excellent products that ooze quality. I have an Expedition in goat, and an A2 (historic series) Mark 41 in mahogany horsehide. They are hands down my favorite jackets. I'm tempted to get a russet horsehide Mark 31 I love their quality so much.

[CM]

You know what - if I could get G&B to make a half-belt in goat I'd order one tomorrow. Love their work.

[Bemo]

I'm with you CM, Good Wear makes a half-belt but that's just too steep for me. But G&B... well now I could scrape pennies together for one of those.