Club Obi Wan

Used to, most every department store had their own version of the A-2, but it is becoming more difficult to find a good A-2 likeness than it used to be, at least a practical one with warm lining. Many retail outlets and online order houses, such as Wilson's, are now stocking more jackets with PVC shells. Is the classic A-2 becoming a forgotten article of the past, phasing out?

Who currently makes the best cousin to the A-2?

LL Bean makes a nice one, I bought one from Hollowpond a few weeks ago and it seems to be an excellent jacket.

Depending how close to original you want, Eastman, Gibson & Barnes, LL Bean, Cooper, US Wings, and Schott all make pretty good jackets based on the A2, with or without updates to make them more practical.

Aero and Good Wear are among the most accurate along with Eastman. Now "best" is a funny word - most durable?, most comfortable?, most accurate?, most weatherproof? ...you see the problem.

Texan Scott wrote:Used to, most every department store had their own version of the A-2, but it is becoming more difficult to find a good A-2 likeness than it used to be, at least a practical one with warm lining. Many retail outlets and online order houses, such as Wilson's, are now stocking more jackets with PVC shells. Is the classic A-2 becoming a forgotten article of the past, phasing out?

Who currently makes the best cousin to the A-2?

This is the golden era for good A2 reproductions, surf iover at the Vintage Leather Jacket Forum. But in the end, for price and quality (if you're not a stitch Nazi) G&B do a brilliant one in HH.

Guess the other question to ask is if you want WWII issue or modern issue. You can go to US Wings and get the actual item issued in the military. They make 'em.

Good Wear Leather in Seattle, hands down. John Chapman is the owner/operator, and he is turning out the most stunning A-2s you can find. He just introduced a repro of the very first A-2 contract by Security Aviation Togs... you will not find a better jacket, period.

Kelly wrote:I believe one if these is on _'s Christmas and birthday (12/30) wish list. He has a very long and detailed wish list. But then, I'm his sugar-momma!

Sugar momma's are nice to have aren't they? I'm proud to say I married well myself!

Photoss wrote:LL Bean makes a nice one, I bought one from Hollowpond a few weeks ago and it seems to be an excellent jacket.

Glad you're enjoying it!

Travis

I mention all this because it seems that A-2's are not as attainable as they used to be. I mean, back in the 80's and 90's, you could walk into Sears, Penney's Dillards, etc., and find a pretty good likeness and made with good skin. But there seems to be a departure, in that it is more difficult to find these types of jackets than there once was, and if you do, more of them are being made of PVC...? Years ago, this would have been unthinkable. Look at Wilson's for example:
http://www.wilsonsleather.com/family/in ... pricesort=
They currently sell one fair likeness, and at that, I'm being generous, as it does not have a storm flap....or the new repros are being made with huge storm flaps. This was not common in the past. The A-2 jacket market appeears to be changing, in flux, and this could be part of why the high end A-2 market is thriving...?

...who's yo' Momma!!!

Following up a bit... Of course, not everyone can afford a GW jacket. They are individually custom made by one guy out of top quality materials and are constructed with an eye toward detail and quality. That doesn't come cheap.

If you want an A-2 but can't afford a GW, take into consideration the following.

One, hide choice. Horse and goat were used in originals, and I would strongly recommend sticking with one of these leathers. They are tough, "authentic," and have the right look for the jacket. You *may* find a cow hide jacket that fits the bill, but by and large, going with horse or goat will give you durability, "authenticity," and the right drape/look.

Two, construction. Real A-2s have one piece backs and two piece sleeves. No split backs, no yokes, no stitch lines across the upper arms. Remember, the more stitching that goes into a jacket, the more potential points of failure there are. That's a no-no for a piece of clothing that was originally made as a piece of military flight gear. Plus, extra seams just don't look right on the A-2. Nothing undercuts the look of a nice A-2 more than a center seam down the back. Yuck.

Three, knits. A-2s do NOT have elastic cuffs. They are pure knit wool. Stay away from nylon, elastic, or (shudder) elasticized leather cuffs. The original wool is best both aesthetically and functionally. They grip well without being too loose or too tight, and they resist pilling. (I have A-2s that have several years of wear and show absolutely no signs of pilling on the knits.)

Four, cut and pattern. Modern issue A-2s are shaped very differently from vintage models. They do not have the same drape or silhouette. If you want a more vintage, "authentic" look, the modern A-2 is not going to do it. You don't have to go all the way for an "original maker" repro like a Good Wear; several jacket makers have generic "WWII" looking A-2s that take their cue from the original 1940s versions rather than the updated current USAF issue.

Five, the devil is in the details. Original A-2s varied a lot in their details. Color (wide range of "russet" and "seal" browns), leather tanning and dying method (typically veg tanned, but either aniline or pigment dyed), collar shape, zip type, use of collar stand (some did, some didn't), lining color, lining stamps, pocket shape, snap type (ring or ball and stud), knit color, etc. Don't be afraid to go with personal preference on these points.

Having said all that, if you are looking for a nice-looking A-2 that meets the above criteria but can't afford a Good Wear, check out Aero Leather (their real deal A-2 is not bad looking for the price), Gibson and Barnes (their historical A-2 line), Eastman (their "house" label -- not cheap, but not GW money either) US Authentic (I have no direct experience but they are modelled after vintage A-2s), and Bill Kelso (new entry into repro A-2s that shows some promise, but I have yet to see an actual owner post a review). In any case I would stick with a maker that specializes in A-2s to one degree or another. (I wouldn't get one from, say, Wested, for instance.)

I'm not sure I understand the original question now.

I thought the question was who offered the best OTR A-2 type jacket (cousin) in a department store/general mail order type setting.

'Who currently makes the best cousin to the A-2?'

This thread has moved toward going to speciality A-2 jacket companies.

What ARE you asking about, Tex? Are we talking at 'cross purposes', or is this the direction you were wanting to go?

I'm not sure how in the world one can ask about a jacket at J. C. Penny and GW/Aero in the same conversation?

Regards! Michaelson

I really like the look of GW's jackets. I really want one of these in horse and am gonna start scraping nickels for one...

I think I'm gonna show my wife Kelly's post about being a sugar momma and see if I can't get them embroiled in a sugar-momma off!

Travis

Anyone has Alpha's A-2?

I think they look awsome in the pics I've seen. Not sure if 100% accurate, but good enough for the price I think.

Michaelson wrote:I'm not sure I understand the original question now.

I thought the question was who offered the best OTR A-2 type jacket (cousin) in a department store/general mail order type setting.

'Who currently makes the best cousin to the A-2?'

This thread has moved toward going to speciality A-2 jacket companies.

What ARE you asking about, Tex? Are we talking at 'cross purposes', or is this the direction you were wanting to go?

I'm not sure how in the world one can ask about a jacket at J. C. Penny and GW/Aero in the same conversation?

Regards! Michaelson

Just to clarify, I was asking for the best repro and obviously this lends itself to subjectivity, as there are factors to consider: most accurate, best quality for the money, who uses the best hides, etc. Many different ways a member could answer. You have provided a great deal of useful information which is appreciated. I also wanted to mention a "trend" relative to the current state of the retail market today, which is also noteworthy. It appears as though you have a great deal of seperation (in price and quality) between the high end and low end of the market. Was not always so in the past.

Ah, ok. You confused the heck outta me, as all the examples you listed were either contract items or overseas knockoffs that the big chains sold....and we quickly went into discussions of high end customized jackets.

That's quite a jump, my friend. It's like asking what's the best choice for a work vehicle....a Yugo or a Land Rover. They both have a gasoline engine and 4 tires.

I lost your trail by the 3rd reply.

Regards! Michaelson

A2, did someone say A2???? I was going to ask the same thing...........what price range are we talking here? Are you looking for a A2 style, or authentic reproductions from WWII. The modern A2 is still issued to pilots, but is different in many regards the versions offered in 1941.

At the high end of WWII reproductions are the Good Wear, Eastman, and Aero Leather. More accurate reproductions of original contract A2s. All custom made to your size. $1000-800 is the that price range. As someone else posted, head over to Vintage Leather Jacket forums if you want mountains of info.

Gibson and Barnes makes a great product as well. They offer both modern, and WWII reproductions.

I received my Gibson & Barnes A2 last week, but didn't have time to take pictures or measurements yet. I bought the A2 Mark 41 in Mahogany horsehide. It's beautiful. I was just able to wear it tonight.

If you want something in the $400-350 range, maybe offerings by the Cockpit, formerly Avirex. Of course US Wings has a good selection of A2s. Once you narrow down what style and price range, there is manufacturer for everyone. I'd also check out ebay, always a bunch for sale there.

Well, Tex, I certainly know what you mean about the whole Department stores not carrying anything. It seems the place to go for an off the rack, civilian knock off A-2 (you know; map lining, handwarmers, snapps on the collars) is the thrift market now. That's where you go to get the G-III map-lined A-2 in a size "medium." And you're also right.. wilson's leather offers more not-real leather items (not an A-2 to be found on that page you showed us), and department stores rarely carry real leather. And if they do, it's always luxury (feels like it's gonna rip right there between your fingers) lambskin. And it's never an A-2......

-KB

Flyderf wrote:I bought the A2 Mark 41 in Mahogany horsehide. It's beautiful. I was just able to wear it tonight.

That mahogany horse looks like an excellent hide, quality vintage look & color!

Hollowpond wrote:I really like the look of GW's jackets. I really want one of these in horse and am gonna start scraping nickels for one...

I think I'm gonna show my wife Kelly's post about being a sugar momma and see if I can't get them embroiled in a sugar-momma off!

Travis

And this typical HH half-belt is, of course, like the jacket Tony Nowak used as the pattern of the Surrogates jacket.

Ever heard of these guys:

http://www.noble-house.eu/catalog/produ ... ucts_id/50

Texan Scott wrote:Ever heard of these guys:

http://www.noble-house.eu/catalog/produ ... ucts_id/50

Not liking what I see. The leather looks too thin. The knits are way off. Pockets are wrong shape and size (too big). They look like they may have handwarmers behind them -- a definite no-no for a vintage A-2. Snaps on the storm flap, too... never on originals.

Nein, danke.

CM wrote:
And this typical HH half-belt is, of course, like the jacket Tony Nowak used as the pattern of the Surrogates jacket.

Yup! Its a pattern that dates to the 30's and what I think the REAL Indiana Joneses would wear back then. Thats kinda where I am right now in my gear search, not emulating the film persona so much, as piecing together what I think the actual adventurers from that era would have worn.

Travis

Travis, you're like me! I started going the "historical Indy" route a few years ago. There are plenty of "Indys," but only one binkmeister! (Thank goodness!)

Hollowpond wrote:

CM wrote:
And this typical HH half-belt is, of course, like the jacket Tony Nowak used as the pattern of the Surrogates jacket.

Yup! Its a pattern that dates to the 30's and what I think the REAL Indiana Joneses would wear back then. Thats kinda where I am right now in my gear search, not emulating the film persona so much, as piecing together what I think the actual adventurers from that era would have worn.

Travis

I like your thinking Travis. I kind of think that the real Indy would wear an A1. But I guess that's just becasue the film jacket is largely based on an A2 and it came after he A1 which is period accurate for 1936.

Yeah, I'm thinking the striated lamb Wings legend is probably gonna be my end all be all jacket for Indy (yeah right... ). After that purchase I am saving for a serious vintage style horse hide jacket in the 30's half belt style. Possibly from GW or Aero or who knows (suggestions anyone). I just can see an authentic Indy in these jackets.

Travis

Curse this group. You've got me wanting an A2 now.....

Sadly everywhere is too close to me via the Internet and credit card route... Eastman sell buzz rickson jackets too and I LOVE those....

Favorites? Cantalope & juicy pear.

So do you put Good Wear above Eastman, et al?

Buzz Rickson stuff is pretty good... I just got one of their 1950s USN chambray shirts and I love it to pieces. The prices on their leather jackets are OTT, though, especially when you can get a custom Good Wear with NOS hardware for about $500 less. (I paid $1200 for my custom GW Bronco in horsehide with a NOS Crown zip. History Preservation Associates has a Buzz Rickson Bronco in horse with a repro Crown zip for $1600 -- and that's with off-the-rack sizing. The BR jackets cost even more in Japan.)

The area that BR excels is nylon and cloth jackets. If I had deeper pockets I would be up to my eyeballs in M421s, L2s, L2As, 37J1s, B-15s (mod), etc.

Speaking of factory tours, the best one I was on was the tour of the Yuengling Brewery in Pottsville, PA. In order to keep the title of America's Oldest Brewery, they have to continue to brew beer in the original building. If you're ever in the area, it's a fun tour complete with a walk through of the limestone catacomb like structure carved underground so that the beer could set up properly - lagers need a colder temp. than ales. When you walk into the brewery, you are immediately hit by the smell of stale beer from, no doubt, beer being spilled in the brewing process. Oddly enough, it reminded me of my dorm room when I was in college. Is that bad?

Anyway, back to the A2 discussion. As many people have said, there are lots of A2 makers out there, from the modern A2, to civy A2's, to historically accurate A2's. If you're looking for a warm liner, however, I don't think the A2 is the way to go. They generally have fairly thin linings. I once read a Real Good War by Sam Halpert. It's a fictionalized account of a B-17 crew flying missions over Europe. Halpert was a navigator on a B-17 and flew over something like 30 combat missions, so much of the book is based upon his experiences. But I digress...all the crew members in his book layered heavily under their jackets - even the sheepskin ones with the nice furry collars - as they weren't designed for warmth. So if you want an A2, my advice is to get it big enough to layer. Then again, a lot of people go for the fitted look b/c they think all WWII A2's were very short (at the waist) and really trim since they were military issued.

Another company is US Authentic out of NY - flightjacket.com. They make a generic WWII A2. It's not specific to any one pattern but has all the hallmarks of an A2 from that era. From a company like that you could get away with a WWII looking A2 for about $300.00 off the rack.

Leaving aside issues of historical accuracy, I've been very happy with my LLBean jacket for close on 20 years now. Enough room to layer in cooler weather and just a solid, durable jacket that felt good right from the get-go. Mine is uninsulated, but they do have an Thinsulate insulated version, too.

LJ

Kelly wrote:

djd wrote:Curse this group. You've got me wanting an A2 now.....

Does Eastman have a showroom? I know we have one of their catalogs and it is a real work of art.

I know the US leg of Eastman in NJ does not have a showroom. Pity, because I'd have gone up there to pick up my A-2! But yes, historically, the A-2 was a "summer flight jacket." My Eastman Rough Wear Contract 27752 has the horsehide outer layer, and the cotton lining—nothing in between.

_ wrote:

djd wrote:Sadly everywhere is too close to me via the Internet and credit card route... Eastman sell buzz rickson jackets too and I LOVE those....

Kel has a thing for "factory tours" and the like. I enjoy them too - when I'm interested in what they make. Some of the best gave been with jacket makers.

The Ricksons? I'd never seen their A2's until I talked to a guy wearing one in _ (really) NJ. They are right up there. I personally have always had the idea if getting one if their B10's - but I'm sized out. Maybe when I'm 60?

Yeah, they're made for tiny Japanese people. I think the XXL is about a 44 chest. I used to have a beautiful MA1 from Ricksons, it felt like it would stop bullets but I had to stop kidding myself that it actually fitted me

DJD

Eastman have a small rail in the 'American Classics' store in Covent Garden, so if you are ever in London...

Oh! Thanks I'll check that out KT

For the best mix of historical accuracy, tough-as-nail/superb craftsmanship. and VERY reasonably priced...take a serious look at Cockpit USA (formerly Avirex) A-2s (goat and HH).