Last Crusade Penman final prototype / for now

[BendingOak]

Title says it all. You guys and dolls should know me by now. I will never be finished with tweaking any of the Indy hats I offer. Heres the Pics.

[jasonalun]

Wow, very nice John! Can you say what the particular differences are between this block and your previous LC block? I have one of your LCs from last year and I love it, but this looks even better than mine. I'm just curious, did you lower the crown height any, or just tweak the transition points? I'd love to get mine re-blocked on this one but I may have to wait a while - low on the cash right now.

[Noah]

Whenever you tweak the blocks, they always look fantastic! This hat looks like the LC cave hat, and I really like that bash. Nice work!

[BendingOak]

Wow, very nice John! Can you say what the particular differences are between this block and your previous LC block? I have one of your LCs from last year and I love it, but this looks even better than mine. I'm just curious, did you lower the crown height any, or just tweak the transition points? I'd love to get mine re-blocked on this one but I may have to wait a while - low on the cash right now.

Im finding that if you change the transition point you may have to change the crown height for it to crease out to the same point. If that is clear at all.

[jnicktem]

So does that mean then that you made the crown a little higher than your previous LC hats?

[BendingOak]

So does that mean then that you made the crown a little higher than your previous LC hats?

or maybe lower. crown height doesn't mean much to me now as it used to. Crown height by itself means nothing. The shape the transition and the shape. You need all the info or it doesn't mean much. Thats at least what Im learning.

Thats why when someone asks me what the open crown. The questions means very little to me. I could tell you but it doesn't matter without the other information.

[Ian]

John - What's the brim width? I reckon the block shape you've got there is very accurate, and the bash just completes it. Well done dude!!!.

At what point will you decide to alter the rest of the LC blocks?

I know this might sound dumb to you, but do you have a block for every size and if so how do you replicate the changes consistantly throughout the entire set? If it's a secret, then I understand.

Ian

[BendingOak]

John - What's the brim width? I reckon the block shape you've got there is very accurate, and the bash just completes it. Well done dude!!!.

At what point will you decide to alter the rest of the LC blocks?

I know this might sound dumb to you, but do you have a block for every size and if so how do you replicate the changes consistantly throughout the entire set? If it's a secret, then I understand.

Ian

Right now Im very happy with it but who knows what I will see in the future. Thats why I said for now.

I have a complete set for every hat offering I offer. Each block is exactly the same, no difference at all. Only the size is different. Replicating the block and flanges are something my block maker does not me. He has that skill and he is very good. I had him fly out last year to go over every set of blocks I had plus come up with a few new ones. We also worked on hatting tools.

[Ian]

Sorry. I assumed that you'd only have the block in your size, since it is a prototype.


When you tweak the block shape, do you do that yourself, or do you communicate the changes to Mr Blockmaker? Sorry, again, being very nosey.

Ian

[BendingOak]

I work using skype. We can share desk top images with each other. When we come to an agreement on one. He works on it and sends it to me to make the prototype. The true proto type never gets finished. I just block a old body that has been wreaked from some strange experiment . Ounce its dry, I pull it off the block and bash the body. No parts are in the hat nor do I flange it. All I need to do is see the shape of the crown. If I like what I see , all I have to do is drop him a line and he makes the other sizes.

My blocks for Raiders, TOD, LC,YIJ, CS and CS Travel are all complete. as are my new watchmen, spirit, Eddie, Eno, Just working on a couple more and I should be done for some time or at least I hope so. It has cost me some $$$$$$$$$$$


What you guys are seeing is me tweaking the specs on the hats. I don't use or like photo shop to work out the details. I like making the hat and seeing them on a person. Cost more money and a lot of time but I think the end results are better. I tend to sue myself as a fit model. If I can work out the specs and details to work on me, then it becomes just a matter of tweaking the specs up or down depending on size and shape of the person. What better person to work these details out on but myself. Im right there all the time ( no matter how hard I try to get away from myself).

Somewhere down the line I will have one each of my offerings in my size at the shop. It will take me some time but thats the goal. This way I will hav something for people to handle when they drop by, I will be able to get great shots of all the hats for my site and get shots of me wearing the hat to better show off how they look.

John

[Ian]

Thanks John

I had a mental image of you whittling away on a block with a needle file, trying to subtly alter the block shape.

You and Steve must've been cast from the same mould.

Ian

[Hollowpond]

John, what are the front and back measurements of that hat creased? EXCELLENT work by the way!!

Travis

[binkmeisterRick]

I like the brim swoop on that hat.

[A.J. Cairo]

WOW you nailed it! This is the first Last Crusade hat that I've seen that I actually want to buy.

[Mitch LaRue]

JUST what A.J. said!

I've never seen a FINER LC, John... Well Done!

(And for that matter Congratulations on ALL the progress you've made with your many blocks... Really OUTSTANDING work!)

[Ian]

Can I also add, that you should keep hold of that one cos not only is it a really accurate LC, it also really suits you.

Ian

[Michaelson]

Yeah, everytime I see the word 'final' in the subject title of either yours or Fedora's threads, I always chuckle to myself.

This iteration looks great, John...no matter WHERE if falls in the process. With just a bit more curl of the brim, the second shot looks like the Venice dock hat....my personal favorite of LC.

Regards! Michaelson

[Mitch LaRue]

everytime I see the word 'final' in the subject title of either yours or Fedora's threads, I always chuckle to myself.

Michaelson's right, of course...
Perfectionists like John are always on that neverending journey to a "perfection" that they end up constantly improving on (but that still leaves the rest of us impressed every step of the way!)

But then... I guess that's why John was smart enough to ADD the "for now" to this Thread's title!
GOOD JOB thinkin' AHEAD, Mr. Penman!

[Texan Scott]

Tentative FINAL, until they discover another tweak that they like better.

[Fedora]

So does that mean then that you made the crown a little higher than your previous LC hats?

or maybe lower. crown height doesn't mean much to me now as it used to. Crown height by itself means nothing. The shape the transition and the shape. You need all the info or it doesn't mean much. Thats at least what Im learning.

Thats why when someone asks me what the open crown. The questions means very little to me. I could tell you but it doesn't matter without the other information.

Yes you have learned what I learned John. You can take one block with a particular shape to it, and its 5 1/2 inches tall, and then another but different shaped block the same height, yet when you crease it, you may end up with two hats of different heights.. The dome and the transition points are very important, and a big variable.

[Texan Scott]

Crown height is important to some because some might need the extra head room, while others might not. If you want a lower bashed crown, you might not be able to have it because the dent is too low, as in the Christy's, for example. The Christy's hat has a 5 3/4 unbashed crown. If you want to bash that crown with a total hight of 4 1/2 or less, your head might push up on the dent and prevent the height you desire. Block shape is important to achieving the look, but crown height has merit also, in terms of desired height. If you start with a lower crown height, then it is easier to have the lower bashed crown, than to start with a high crown, then try for the lower, bashed crown. A person's own individual features could override it, however.

[BendingOak]

You are missing the point Scott. If a block shape with a 5 1/2 inch open crown that creases down to 4 3/4 and then you take Another block shape and it's open crown is 5 3/8 and you crease it down to the same 4 3/4. You shouldn't have the problEm you are thinking of.

Open crown height really means nothing without the other information. More crown height doesn't mean you can get a deeper center dent.


The christys you speak of with 5 3/4 inch open crown that you are trying to crease to 4 1/2 in the front and assuming we are going for a center dent crease ( we are here at Indygear ). You are creasing the hat lower than it can go. That's the point Steve and myself are trying to make. One without the others means nothing. You need all three parts. Open crown height, transitions, and dome shape.


Both mine and and Steves open crown height is lower than the christys and we both come in on a crease height at 4 1/2 inches. The center dent doesn't touch my head but the christys does. Why, the dome shape, transition and crown height are not right to get that creased height. With that style crease.

[Texan Scott]

No doubt those variables are important to reproduce the look accurately. It just seems that if you want a lower crown height, it would seem wise to already have a hat that has a lower unbashed crown? This way, the top of ur gord does not push up on the center dent in the first place, no? Yes? I mean, no!

[Tyderium]

Well that could almost turn a Raiders guy into a LC guy...almost
Great LC hat.

[BendingOak]

No doubt those variables are important to reproduce the look accurately. It just seems that if you want a lower crown height, it would seem wise to already have a hat that has a lower unbashed crown? This way, the top of ur gord does not push up on the center dent in the first place, no? Yes? I mean, no!

You would think that would be that easy but it's not. If you are justnlowering the open crown height by let's say 1/8 of and inch because you don't like the creases crown height. You might lower yourself into a hat that touches one head.

[Hollowpond]

Thanks for posting those pics John. I finally have been able to perfect my LC bash thanks to them My side bashes were not deep enough. Also, I am very thankful that you don't put a screen accurate LC bow on it. I have been obsessing over LC screen caps and those bows are UGLY!!!


Travis

[Deputy Jedi]

Great hat as usual. Ironically, I started out as a LC fan, but after looking at these pics carefully, I much prefer the Raiders style with a looser pinch.

[Fedora]

You know, off topic, but it just occurred to me...the really low crown hats are generally worn higher on the head. How high or low the hat is worn used to change, as fashion changed. In some really old pics you see men wearing their hats way high, and most were shorter crowned hats.

I sent my Bogie block to John's blockmaker and its a 6 inch high block, with taper and a pointy dome. Yet, When I make a Bogie hat from this block, the entire dome is creased deep into the hat, and you end up with a hat that is 4 1/2 to 4 3/4 tall at the highest point on the sides. Also, the deep c dent top crease straightens the hat up somewhat so you get rid of the original block taper. The pointy domed top works out great for the Bogie hat, and was designed for deep c dent ala Bogie's fedora. The shape of the dome was designed, for the type of top crease to be used.

OH, really nice LC hat there John! But you know, on the pic posted above of Indy on the motor bike, doesn't that front brim width look to be 2 5/8? Does to me. Especially when compared to the Raiders front brim length or width. Could be the photography though...and check out the shoddy bowwork on Indy hat in that same pic. Definetly a stock factory made hat, and the factory paid no attention to their bow work! Compare that bow to the very defined and cleanly made Raiders bow. Different animals. Which begs the question. Just how accurate do LC fans want their replications to be? Many of the LC hats in the film also had a loose ribbon, on the top side. That always bugged me alot. Shoddy work.

My point is..., an accurate replication of the LC hat, would be an intentionally shoddy made hat, if accuracy was important. This is what hatters run into sometimes. You make a hat as close to the film hat as you can, complete with shoddy ribbon work, and the customer thinks you ripped him off! When actually you replicated the film hat as close as you could. I started a long time ago, not replicating the ribbon work exactly. Now, I have only made a few dozen LC hats in my life, and only one customer complained that the ribbon work was not accurate to the film. He wanted the film accurate bow and loose ribbon I guess. I changed it of course, although it was difficult to send it out after the tweak to the ribbon. Just looked to not be a well made hat, which is what I am used to sending out. But the customer is always right! So, you do what you can to please. Which is great advice for any hatter here.

All too often, in the past, I have seen one of my hats that just did not fit the customers face very well. I would generally always ask him to send it back so I could remake it, to fit his face better. Afterall, he is advertising for you when he wears that hat! And bad news travels very fast!

Also, I have seen several pics of my hats in the past, where apparently the crease job was knocked out in transit. Some customers have no creasing skills, so when they try to put the creases back in(which should be real easy as the felt has memory) they don't succeed, and your handmade hat looks like @#$%, due to a bad crease job. Not much you can do in cases like this. Except to hope his creasing skills improve over time.

[BendingOak]

I think you could be right about the brim on that LC hat but I have been finding that the specs are jumping all over the place when it comes to the LC just like the TOD hat. Enough to drive a man crazy ( or Is that mad )?

I so can't wait for the that first bogie block to get here. First one off the block is mine

I have decided that I'm making a replication of all e Indy hats and I'm making them just a tad cleaned up or the way they should have been made. What I mean by that is in the case of the TOD and LC hats. I will clean up the stitching , the bow design just a little to clean it up. I won't do bad work unless someone asks for it.

Even the Raiders hat I clean up some of the sewing when it come to the ribbon. The more I look at the first three movie that's the more my opinion of the are as follows. TOD and LC really poo factory made hat. Raiders wasn't a poor made hat but wasn't a great one either.


Steve,

Indy didn't get into a well made hat with high quality materials until the fourth movie


Before everyone goes out looking for some rope. If I could go back in time and grab one hat off of Fords head , it would be then Raiders with no doubt. Even over the CS hat. No offense intended at all my friend. I think you would do the same. Besides I can always have you make one for me

Which I did.

[Ian]

The brim looks to be just short of 2 1/2", maybe 2 3/8" at the sides and like Steve says, 2 5/8" on the front and back, so that the 1/4" dimensional cut is made.

My fed IV is like this, looks pretty okay as an LC type if I lowered the crown and relaxed the dents.



Ian

[knibs7]

Any idea when these will be for sale?

Kyle

[BendingOak]

Any idea when these will be for sale?

Kyle

I have always had a LC offering. This is just an improvement on what I have already have done. All my hats are handmade/custom. You will need to go to my site and fill out a form. http://www.penmanhats.com

[djd]

That's a great looking hat John

[Digger4Glory]

Title says it all. You guys and dolls should know me by now. I will never be finished with tweaking any of the Indy hats I offer. Heres the Pics.

You had to go and do it John! You had to go and perfect the LC and make me itchy for another felt masterpiece again!

[Pitfall Harry]

Title says it all. You guys and dolls should know me by now. I will never be finished with tweaking any of the Indy hats I offer. Heres the Pics.

I was never a really big fan of the LC hat until I saw these shots. VERY nicely done, Oak. That is a beautiful hat all around.

[Mitch LaRue]

Harry, what you just said (wrote) sums it up for me exactly: John's interpretation and delivery of the look & style of this hat has MADE me a fan of it!

[Digger4Glory]

Title says it all. You guys and dolls should know me by now. I will never be finished with tweaking any of the Indy hats I offer. Heres the Pics.

Order placed my friend! Excellent work!

[BendingOak]

Thank you and thank you.

[Ian]

Order placed my friend! Excellent work!

You won't be sorry with this one. Not only is it a great replication of the LC lid, in general, but it's also a really classy looking lid. Looks great with just about anything. It's not one that passers-by shout 'Indy!' or 'Yeeehaww!!' either....I've had countless compliments on it.

Ian

[Digger4Glory]

Order placed my friend! Excellent work!

You won't be sorry with this one. Not only is it a great replication of the LC lid, in general, but it's also a really classy looking lid. Looks great with just about anything. It's not one that passers-by shout 'Indy!' or 'Yeeehaww!!' either....I've had countless compliments on it.

Ian

Yes classy comes to the top of the list when I look at it!

[generalFROSTY]

As much as I love my Raiders pinch, that hat DOES look superb.
I think when I eventually get my gray fedora I will give it the LC bash.