Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Moderators: Indiana Jeff, Dalexs
Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Just thought I would post a few pics of the CS hat I just completed and shipped out today. It's a size 22 3/4 hat. This one here matches the main hat that we made for the film, and has the 2 3/4 by 2 1/2 brim width, creased height on the front is 4 3/4, back, 4 1/4.
It is creased the way I creased them for the film, except I pushed the front creases back to 5 inches in length like Bernie ended up doing. I was originally told to make the length 4 1/2 inches but apparently he ended up wanting it a bit longer. So this hat is accurate to the film, at least it is accurate to some of the hats in the film, as I do see little nuanced changes from scene to scene in some cases.
Also, due to the block used, that was picked by Bernie, in order to make the block work better, I always used the next smaller size to make the film hats. So, for a 7 3/8 hat size, I used a 7 1/4 block, and so forth. I felt the right sized block would make the hat look too boxy, and too wide, so to compensate for the extremely full shaped vintage block, I dropped down a block size. So, I just gave away one of my secrets in regards to this hat. If replicated by someone else, using the common sized block, the hat would always look "off". The last trick, I shall keep to myself though, and it is as important as the block size deal. I just wanted the other guys to work a bit in replicating my work is all!! Plus, it will be fun to figure stuff out. That is the fun part of the craft to me. NOW if I can just get that Raiders hat figured out, and exactly what Swales did, I will unabashedly copy his work! I believe imitation is indeed the highest sort of flattery. And I have flattered Mr. Swales a heap! Or tried to.
It is creased the way I creased them for the film, except I pushed the front creases back to 5 inches in length like Bernie ended up doing. I was originally told to make the length 4 1/2 inches but apparently he ended up wanting it a bit longer. So this hat is accurate to the film, at least it is accurate to some of the hats in the film, as I do see little nuanced changes from scene to scene in some cases.
Also, due to the block used, that was picked by Bernie, in order to make the block work better, I always used the next smaller size to make the film hats. So, for a 7 3/8 hat size, I used a 7 1/4 block, and so forth. I felt the right sized block would make the hat look too boxy, and too wide, so to compensate for the extremely full shaped vintage block, I dropped down a block size. So, I just gave away one of my secrets in regards to this hat. If replicated by someone else, using the common sized block, the hat would always look "off". The last trick, I shall keep to myself though, and it is as important as the block size deal. I just wanted the other guys to work a bit in replicating my work is all!! Plus, it will be fun to figure stuff out. That is the fun part of the craft to me. NOW if I can just get that Raiders hat figured out, and exactly what Swales did, I will unabashedly copy his work! I believe imitation is indeed the highest sort of flattery. And I have flattered Mr. Swales a heap! Or tried to.
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
that is just wonderful! wow
Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Great pics Fedora, can clearly see the character of this hat and how it's different from the Raider's. And it makes the wait that much harder!
- binkmeisterRick
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Well, based on your pictures, Fedora, my guess is that your last "trick" involved putting the hat body on an upside down block! Oh, wait, did I just give away your final secret?
- DanielJones
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Just simply, Wow! Well you flatter us by sharing your work. Well done.
Cheers!
Dan
Cheers!
Dan
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Looks fantastic! I love it!
Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Such an awesome hat! I look forward to the day mine arrives! I know it's worth the wait. Steve, you're awfully good to us around here! I'm still amazed that we can get a hat from one of THE guys who made the hat! Thanks for posting these pics! My size is the same as Harrison's, so these pictures are extra interesting to me!
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
That's a thing of beauty Steve. Thanks for showing it off! I've always wanted to order one of your fedoras, but I think the anticipation would do me in.
Weston
Weston
Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
As always, it looks great. Even though I have one, seeing shots of other CS AB's makes me want another.
Ian
Ian
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Beautiful!
Question though on the block sizes that will show my ignorance about hat making.
If answering that would give away your final secret (so many of which you have so generously shared) then I understand .
Regards,
Indiana Jeff
Question though on the block sizes that will show my ignorance about hat making.
If you went down a block size for each hat ordered for the film, wouldn't the hats be too small for the person for which the hat was being made?in order to make the block work better, I always used the next smaller size to make the film hats. So, for a 7 3/8 hat size, I used a 7 1/4 block, and so forth.
If answering that would give away your final secret (so many of which you have so generously shared) then I understand .
Regards,
Indiana Jeff
Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Thanks for the question. No, one can easily use the next smaller block size with no problem. The sizing of a hat takes place in the sweatband, just as long as you don't try to go more than one size,up or down. But this also depends upon how one blocks the hat, and the blockshape or wood block used is a variable as well. Plus, I make my hats different than other hatters, because I do not put in the brim break, and never have, while the hat is still on the block. Now, putting in the brim break while the hat is still on the hat block is the general manner of doing the brim break, and the fastest and easiest way as well. But, I think my method is essential in making the CS hat look "right". And this is due to the vintage CS block having a 1 3/8 differential, while my vintage band blocks feature a 1 1/2 inch differential. I use the rounding jack to do the first cut of the brim with the band block inside, and then do the dimensional cut while the band block is still inside the crown. What this does is to slightly elongate the dimensional cut.Indiana Jeff wrote:Beautiful!
Question though on the block sizes that will show my ignorance about hat making.
If you went down a block size for each hat ordered for the film, wouldn't the hats be too small for the person for which the hat was being made?in order to make the block work better, I always used the next smaller size to make the film hats. So, for a 7 3/8 hat size, I used a 7 1/4 block, and so forth.
If answering that would give away your final secret (so many of which you have so generously shared) then I understand .
Regards,
Indiana Jeff
Plus even in a another Indy film fedora, not the CS, if a guy has a regular oval head, but a thin face, if you don't drop down one size in block size, the hat ends up wearing the man instead of the man wearing the hat. I have seen some hats here that the crown was just too full and large for the fan, and they look like kids wearing their dad's hat that is too large for him. Even though those hats actually fit the head size. They fit the head, but not the face, so its something the old hatters always did, to get a better hat/face proportion. And vice versa by the way. If the face is too full for a hat made on the right sized block, you can step up a block size to bring the hat into proportion with the wider face. It's just an old trick of the trade, that I learned about years ago from an old hatter. There are alot of trade secrets involved in hatmaking, and in the past hatters kept their own little secrets to themselves. It was tradition to do so, or so I have read. Yet, I have always shared most of those so called secrets here, to help others out. Its the way I started out, partly because I was mad at the secretness I ran into while trying to learn the craft, and I wanted to spill the beans, and the other reason was, I wanted to help other guys out here who were considering making their own hats, or even hats for others, to sell. Why not tell them the proper ways, so they could make decent hats? I saw no need for secrets.
The little so called tricks that I used, were NOT really done to make this hat harder to replicate, that really was not my intention at the time. Some of those tricks I was already using on all of my pre CS hats, and were of course carried over to the CS hats. When Marc and I were discussing this on the phone, I think he was the one that said, "well, no one will be replicating this one "exactly" for a long time, and we had a laugh about that. But he said it for a good laugh. And, he wasn't using my techniques at the time as he had developed his own, more traditional hatmaking techniques. I think he still hates how he has to make the CS hats, because it takes more time to do them that way. Its a pain in the rump, is what I mean.
When it comes to how I put in brim breaks, I just did what I had always did in all of the hats that I make. I have always set the shape of the block into the felt, pounced it, and then pulled it off the block. The hat then goes on the appropriate sized vintage band block(sweatband block) and at that time I define the brim break. This takes longer, but its the way that I do it, and have done it since day one. But this method of making the brim break isn't the other secret, although I guess it really is one of the so called secrets, just never thought about it til now.
Bink, you figured it out!!!!! Just kidding. The final secret was done because of the creased heights Bernie was insisting upon. If creased with these specs, I would not have had much of a top crease at all, using this vintage block he had chosen. So, in order that I could present a deeper top crease, ala the other film hats, I had to come up with a solution to this.
Which I did, and that is the secret I won't share, except with John P and LLS, when I retire, so that these guys will be able to replicate with 100 per cent accuracy my film hat. I say "my" film hat, because while Marc made some of the hats, I actually designed it, working with Bernie. It was my own tricks, that Marc has knowledge of, and uses, that defines this particular hat. But, I have given enough info really, on this last secret so that a good hatter could figure out what I actually did to get a deeper top crease, when the blockshape would not have yielded it using Bernie's creased height specs. At the end of the day, the CS film hat was just made completely differently than a regular hat is made, and because of that, replication is difficult UNLESS you know exactly what I did, and my pecular manner of making hats. And the closer I get to retirement, the more apt I am to spill the beans. I sure don't want this one Indy film hat to die with me, I want it to outlive me, and to be produced exactly the same way as I produced them, and showed Marc how to produce them.
So I can see LLS me and John getting together in the not so distant future, and showing them start to finish what makes the CS hat special, or different. And then take a cussing when they find out I just created more work for them, with each CS hat they make!! And hopefully they will pass on the torch when they retire, so fans will always be able to own this one hat, and that it will be accurate to what you see on the film. Swales really took his own secrets to the grave and I do not want to do that. And won't. I got into hatmaking for the fans, and the fans are what matters to me.
I will post pics of the CS hat using Ford's block later on today, and nuance it a bit differently so you can see how these nuances occured in the film, and how it changes up how the hat presents itself. Since the above hat was a 22 3/4, I used a 7 1/8 block, but Ford's used a 7 1/4 block as his head is actually a 7 3/8, so a larger block. I always love making hats that use his exact same vintage block. Brings back memories of 07.
Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Thank you so much for all that info Steve! Maybe you should write a PhD thesis on this, Dr Delk.
Ian
Ian
Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Yes, like the Raiders, TOD and TLC hats, this one has its own look, while still looking like something Indy would wear. Since it is a straighter hat, it moves towards the Raiders fedora more than the tapered hats in the other films, yet to me shares some commonalities with the other film hats as well, if you ignore the taper issue. And at the end of the day, it is what Bernie personally wanted, although I did do things to correct what I percieved as weak areas, to bring the hat closer to my vision as well as his. I think costume designers want to add their own personal touch, and he certainly did, but I snuck in some things as well, that he apparently liked and agreed with. So in reality, I could never really say this was "my hat" as I was working within his parameters, and he chose the blockshape, not us. Heck, we were trying to push the Raiders block on him, yet he liked the look of this vintage block better, probably because it was so versatile. The height of the front and back, higher or lower, can drastically change the look of this hat. It is the nature of this particular vintage block and its shape. Even how far you push back the front creases does things to the look. Course other hat blocks do this as well.....but perhaps not so much as this one does. No matter how far you push back the creases on this hat, it will still appear straight, or how deep you put in the top crease for that matter. It's gonna be a straight hat regardless, although you can vary the degree of straightness which is what he did when he pushed the front creases backward another 1/2 inch from the way he originally told me to crease them prior to shipping them to him. And actually, him pushing back the length of the front creases, was genious. The hat looked too blocky, but he tweaked that with the crease length. And it worked. And it gives this hat it particular look as well.Bemo wrote:Great pics Fedora, can clearly see the character of this hat and how it's different from the Raider's. And it makes the wait that much harder!
- Indiana Jeff
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Steve,
Thanks for the detailed reply in regards to block sizing. You always comment on how long your posts are, but most here wish they were longer still.
Regards,
Indiana Jeff
Thanks for the detailed reply in regards to block sizing. You always comment on how long your posts are, but most here wish they were longer still.
Regards,
Indiana Jeff
Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
I just wish Mr. Swales would have come here and shared info with us, before he passed on. I am just making sure the fans have the knowledge of what makes the CS hat, the CS hat. But, I never was a short, laconic poster. I try to empty my brain with my posts, so as to make room for more stuff. But when talking about techniques and such, it really does require alot of words, to explain. If you guys were here when I made a hat, it would be easier just to show what so many words take to explain. But also, I am old these days, and you know how old guys are. They keep repeating the same thing, over and over, and forget that they already told that same story countless times! It used to irritate me a little with my own grandpa, and here I am, exactly like he turned out to be! I turned into my grandpa. Pity my dad did not live long enough to reach that stage though. Then I could have been irritated at him!Indiana Jeff wrote:Steve,
Thanks for the detailed reply in regards to block sizing. You always comment on how long your posts are, but most here wish they were longer still.
Regards,
Indiana Jeff
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Steve,
I think you would be the very last member here that would be told to tone down the length of their post.
I think you would be the very last member here that would be told to tone down the length of their post.
- binkmeisterRick
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Especially since they're chock full of great content!
- Mitch LaRue
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
As the others have said, Thank You Steve for these wonderful shots and really informative data you share with us about your process and (most of) your Secrets!
And Hey, at least YOUR lengthy posts really DO say something! Just remember that guys like myself who drone on and on usually[REMAINDER OF POST DELETED DUE TO LACK OF WORTHWHILE CONTENT]
And Hey, at least YOUR lengthy posts really DO say something! Just remember that guys like myself who drone on and on usually[REMAINDER OF POST DELETED DUE TO LACK OF WORTHWHILE CONTENT]
- Mitch LaRue
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
WHAT the?!!!
- Indiana Jeff
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Nicely done, Mitch!
Regards,
Indiana Jeff
Regards,
Indiana Jeff
- binkmeisterRick
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Indiana Jeff used to be "Indiana Jeffery" until we shortened it for him.
- Mitch LaRue
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
Cheers, fellas.
- Indiana Jeff
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Re: Crystal Skull fedora, revisited
It does make for less typing.
Bink, take letters from my name, just leave my wallet alone!
Regards,
Indiana Je
Bink, take letters from my name, just leave my wallet alone!
Regards,
Indiana Je