Club Obi Wan

I just got my Yojimbo Jones, literally 20 minutes ago. The first thing I did was open the box. Next I straightened out the bash, yeah it had the "Shippers Crunch" bash. I then thought of you guys, grabbed my #1 and camera for a few comparison pics.

#1 - 2006 AB from the notorious Ford Felt run. Steve originally bashed it as an Idol Grab. Since then I have worn the snot out of it, literally thousands of hours, sometimes 10-12 hours at a time. It has been in 100F temps, and it has seen -20F. I've worn it in blizzards, and heck, it even went through the remenants of Hurricane Gustav or Ike or whichever one it was that rolled through and dumped 12 inches of rain in 2 days. It has held up like a champ. It has never had a re-block or been cleaned, just take a look at the liner , other than an occasional brushing. It has faded to a nice reddish brown. It is a hat worthy of the name Adventurbilt.

Yojimbo Jones - After writing back and forth with Kurt, I decided on another Idol Grab, might as well start at the begining of the ROTLA hat lifecycle. I am from the Michaelson school of "I'll just wear my gear to distress it," so I had no distressing done. The first thing I noticed was how floppy and soft this hat is. I have never handled such a soft sweatband. The color is a nice deep brown. Kurt's stitching is very even and precise. This is a very well made hat. Now I'll start the true test of wearing it pretty much every day and everywhere I go, just like I did my AB. Kurt, this hat looks like a winner. And now to the pics...

The sun was very bright and harsh, both hats are darker than they appear. The AB is on the left and YJ on the right in all of the photos.








Kurt, hat is off to you.

Rick

Looking awesome there, Blooze. I love how evenly that AB has faded

-KB

Indiana Blooze,

Thanks for the comparison pics. It looks like there is another excellent choice available for those wanting an Indy Fedora. I think Yojimbo makes a fine fedora from the looks of the pictures. I will say I am glad to see a shot of a an AB that is aged and has had no maint. done to it. My AB is going on 1 year and it has been on my head everyday in multi environments and I too want to distress it naturally. I loved how your AB has formed its own character. I am sure the new one from Yojimbo will give you many years of head cover as well.

Thanks,
Beaverlid

Fantastic esp on the side profile. Is the crown taller on the Yojimbo or is it just the shot? Glad to see the AB is still in fine fettle after all that action

Ian

Appears as though technology has sped up the learning curve, no?

I would think that as a hatter, you might tend to face a dilema. That is, jmo, the felt that seemed to best reproduce the SoC look best was the old Christy's felt, before the newer felt they use today. Seems like the newer, thicker felt replaced the thinner felt, maybe 1-1 1/2 years ago, though someone may can nail the dates down better.

Thin felt will reproduce the SoC look better because you tend to get most of the eccentricities that was characteristic of the SoC: felt bulging above the ribbon due to heat and perspiration, etc. However, I would think that as a hatter, you can't offer the cheapest/thinnest felt out there because people expect a certain level of quality and durability, shrinkage and taper enters the mix, etc., so it would appear to be a compromise.

One solution might be to offer the thinner felt only for those customers that really want a SoC styled hat exclusively....?

I have a 2006 'Ford felt' as well, and mine hasn't faded quite as much as yours...but as you say, sunlight and photos can be deceiving.

VERY nice job with BOTH hats!

Regards! Michaelson

Both hats look great Blooze! It´s wonderful to seem them side by side and the AB has really turned into a great character hat!

Both hats look great (thanks for this side by side)! The AB has really worn well and you can tell it's a much travelled, much loved hat. YJ's hat looks great and like it's ready to handle adventures for the years to come.

Both hats look great! The AB is a nicely worn and faded hat. Have fun wearing both of them!

As a reference as to how much darker the hats really are, the YJ's color is spot on the color as his undistressed "Secret Chamber" hat on his web page. As far as size differences, I will make some comparison measurements on Friday, (it's much easier when Mrs. Blooze is at work, as she thinks I have really gone over the edge when I pull out my ruler and start measuring my hats )

Re my felt, see here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47464

cheers, Kurt

1 - 2006 AB from the notorious Ford Felt run. Steve originally bashed it as an Idol Grab. Since then I have worn the snot out of it, literally thousands of hours, sometimes 10-12 hours at a time. It has been in 100F temps, and it has seen -20F. I've worn it in blizzards, and heck, it even went through the remenants of Hurricane Gustav or Ike or whichever one it was that rolled through and dumped 12 inches of rain in 2 days. It has held up like a champ. It has never had a re-block or been cleaned, just take a look at the liner , other than an occasional brushing. It has faded to a nice reddish brown. It is a hat worthy of the name Adventurbilt.

Good to see the old AB has held up with all of that exposure to the elements. Back when I started my own hat line, I opted out for longevity over felt accuracy to the Raiders film. But, that comes from me loving stuff that is hard to wear out, more bang for the buck, so to speak. So, I made that tradeoff. And I would not change it, if I were to do it again today. If you post pics of the rabbit hat 4 years from now, and put it next to the pic of the 4 year old AB, you will see what I am talking about. And it will be obvious why I chose beaver over rabbit. This isn't a new revelation though, as any hatter would tell you the same thing. If you want a hat that will last you the longest, and keep the noggin dry, longer, choose beaver. If you want a hat that will nuance the Raiders film hat better, choose rabbit. But if having a hat as an old friend is your goal, beaver is the only way to go. I am all about durability with my own hats, being the penny pincher that I am. I want to always get my money's worth, and then some! A beaver hat will cost you more that is for sure, but over the long haul, it is cheaper to own, as they just last so much longer, and you don't have to rebuy, just reblock. Plus beaver felt ages so well, and just gets better with age, as it mellows out.

On your faded AB Blooze, when you get it reblocked, and if you want it back to the original color, just ask for it to be pounced. The outside of the felt fades, but under that faded felt is the original color. If you don't want the original color back, ask the hatter NOT to pounce it. Beaver is so dense that the only the outer layer fades, and what is under it, is not affected by the sun bleach effect.

Absolutely, and it just comes down to what your criteria for your hat is. For myself, I look at it like the jacket, I could go horsehide for the jacket, but the drape isn't ever going to nail the look or the nuances of the right kind of lamb jacket. It's the same with rabbit. Personally I spend my money the same way with both because compromise kind of defeats the point of going for the perfect replica.

Put that together with the fact that it's not like a beaver or beaver blend felted hat is going to be guaranteed taper-free, and to me it's a no-brainer that there's a place in the market for an accurate rabbit hat. Especially when I see that there are so many beaver hats that just don't look quite right to my eye. As one of my customers explained, it feels more like they are wearing a helmet. Sure it's tough, but not how they image the Raiders hat to be. Plus, given the beating the original rabbit felt hat took, looking at Desi's hat I think it has held up quite well - though it could definitely use a reblock!

Bottom line is, it's not like most people wear their hats every day, or abuse them. Much of what we end up discussing is overkill for many people - there are a lot of people that just want something that nails the look the closest to the Raiders hat, and have no desire to wear it in a thunderstorm or wear it 7 days a week. (Not that a beaver would beat such a drenching, anyway.) But that doesn't stop me trying to create the most hardy rabbit hat someone can get. Uh oh - I'm digressing again. For me, the accuracy vibe is where I'm trying to excel.

...Wow, I can go on. I'm starting to see why my wife got sick of me talking about this stuff a year ago!

OK, time for some comparison measurements. A caveat: I am comparing an old apple to a new orange. The AB has been worn for thousands of hours in all kinds of weather and temperature extremes. I didn't abuse it, I wore it. What effect this may have had on these measurements, particularly the crown, I don't know. Maybe Steve could offer some insight. Also, don't take these measurements as LLS accurate. I work for the government, so close is good enough. Different felts, different blocks, and different hatters, but two hats that are not all that dissimilar.

AB
Front Dent - 4 3/4"
Rear Dent - 4"
Crown (Bashed) - 4 3/4"
Brim Front/Rear - 2 3/4"
Brim Sides - 2 1/2"

YJ
Front Dent - 4 3/4"
Rear Dent - 4 1/8"
Crown (Bashed) - 5"
Brim Front/Rear - 2 3/4"
Brim Sides 2 5/8"


I've worn the YJ for five days now. It is by far the lightest and softest Indiana Jones Style hat I have ever had. It kind of reminds me of an old vintage Stetson fedora that I have. This light weight and softness took some getting used to. It seems to 'wear' larger than it really is. After a period of time, however, this feeling went away, and the hat became really comfortable. This is the first hat I have been able to put on, out of the box, and with a slight turn, get the Raider's brim swoop on the right and some brim curl on the bow side, without having to tweak the brim. I am sure this is a product of the hat's softness. How will it stand the test of time Beats me, but I intend to find out.

That whole bit about pouncing makes me wonder. Would pouncing not only bring back the original color, but get rid of stains on the outer layer of felt from the effects of sweat, something spilled on it, etc.?

Strider wrote:That whole bit about pouncing makes me wonder. Would pouncing not only bring back the original color, but get rid of stains on the outer layer of felt from the effects of sweat, something spilled on it, etc.?

Just depends upon how deep the stain sunk into the felt really. If it sank in deep, no amount of pouncing will take it out.

Yojimbo Jones wrote:Absolutely, and it just comes down to what your criteria for your hat is. For myself, I look at it like the jacket, I could go horsehide for the jacket, but the drape isn't ever going to nail the look or the nuances of the right kind of lamb jacket. It's the same with rabbit. Personally I spend my money the same way with both because compromise kind of defeats the point of going for the perfect replica.

Put that together with the fact that it's not like a beaver or beaver blend felted hat is going to be guaranteed taper-free, and to me it's a no-brainer that there's a place in the market for an accurate rabbit hat. Especially when I see that there are so many beaver hats that just don't look quite right to my eye. As one of my customers explained, it feels more like they are wearing a helmet. Sure it's tough, but not how they image the Raiders hat to be. Plus, given the beating the original rabbit felt hat took, looking at Desi's hat I think it has held up quite well - though it could definitely use a reblock!

Bottom line is, it's not like most people wear their hats every day, or abuse them. Much of what we end up discussing is overkill for many people - there are a lot of people that just want something that nails the look the closest to the Raiders hat, and have no desire to wear it in a thunderstorm or wear it 7 days a week. (Not that a beaver would beat such a drenching, anyway.) But that doesn't stop me trying to create the most hardy rabbit hat someone can get. Uh oh - I'm digressing again. For me, the accuracy vibe is where I'm trying to excel.

...Wow, I can go on. I'm starting to see why my wife got sick of me talking about this stuff a year ago!

Desi's rabbit Raiders hat would not be around today, if worn all those years. But as I said, rabbit felt makes the most accurate Raiders fedora, because that was the felt used in that film hat. I only gave the reason I chose beaver over rabbit for my main line of hats. Nothing more than that. I reckon I used beaver so as to make a longer lasting hat, as that was important to me at the time, having gone through numerous rabbit hats that just did not hold up to my outdoor lifestyle of that era. But remember, I came from a backpacking background too, and gear failure was in my mind when I started making hats. I was tired of rabbit hats that seemed better suited for file 13 way too soon.

I must also say that will all of the new additions of Raider fedoras I have seen here, I still have not seen one that really captured the original's looks of that first film hat. No matter what felt was used. That includes any that I have ever made. All seem to be "off" somewhere. Some are very close, sure, but then there always seem to be something missing. Perhaps it's in my mind though, so I will allow for that. But most just look too darn straight, too much of a good thing, or the top of the crown is just too full. I think it has more to do with the type of felt used in the Raiders fedora, because the right felt is really big in getting the hat to look right. So, one can have a very close block, but it will only do so much, because if the felt is not the same, the looks are not there. IMO.

The folks that think a beaver dress hat is like wearing a helmet, must have never worn a really stiff western hat, is all I can say. You would get the same feeling as a helmet from a heavy weight rabbit dress hat too. But there is a vast difference between a soft thinner rabbit hat and a beaver hat, UNLESS the beaver was a lighter weight felt. A lightweight beaver hat feels just like a soft rabbit hat.

On the taper issue, yes, even beaver will taper if exposed to the elements. But its on a different time scale than rabbit. I have never seen a rabbit hat that if soaked in the first rain, that would not taper pretty badly. It generally takes a few rains for the beaver to do it. Plus, if you wear your hats outside, all the time, you will still own your beaver hat a few decades from now, but doubtful the rabbit would be around. And as far as reblocks, beaver will take alot more reblocks than rabbit. Beaver felt is just alot tougher felt than rabbit.

Yeah, I guess when I decided to use beaver, it was because I personally like tough, long lasting things, so it's a personal deal with me. But you make the trade off between longevity and Raider felt accuracy when you do it. If you go with a really high quality modern rabbit felt, you get some of the characteritics of beaver felt, but most rabbit felt today is a loose felt, and not a tight felt. And a loose felt will leak pretty quickly. I guess felt choice really depends upon what you are gonna use the hat for. If just for dress up, it really doesn't matter. IF you are buying to wear outside, everyday, you will find that beaver will cost you less over the long haul, because you won't have to replace it like you will rabbit.

For my, I see a hat as protection, as well as looking stylish. And personally, I want the best materials used for those hats, because quality has always been important to me personally. But quality and film accuracy are NOT the same thing. In fact, they are opposite when it comes to the first 3 Indy fedoras. So, I will gladly pat our other hatters on the back for a job well done, in trying to get the right felt for the Raiders fedora as well as their efforts to excel in replicating that hat. They are purists, where I am not. I just want to make the toughest Indy hat is all. I just wanted to make real world hats, for out of doors people, and if the felt was better than the original Raiders fedora, but did not look as accurate, I was ok with that. It was something I thought long and hard about at the time. I opted for better, higher quality felt. Plus, I really love the feel that beaver fur brings to a hat. It feels expensive. And it is the traditional highest and most desired fur to use in a hat, if price is not important. You get what you pay for in felts. But most know this.

I agree with everything you say, Steve. You only have to read a few of my threads / posts in the jacket section to see that I'm a bit of a purist!

Having a few HJ's from the Raiders era and before, as well as newer off-the-rack modern hats, I can feel the difference between the 2. Without going into details of how I spec my bodies or process them, when they leave me, they're very close to those older hats - just a tiny bit softer.

cheers, Kurt.

Yojimbo Jones wrote:I agree with everything you say, Steve. You only have to read a few of my threads / posts in the jacket section to see that I'm a bit of a purist!

Having a few HJ's from the Raiders era and before, as well as newer off-the-rack modern hats, I can feel the difference between the 2. Without going into details of how I spec my bodies or process them, when they leave me, they're very close to those older hats - just a tiny bit softer.

cheers, Kurt.

Yes my friend, I know you are a purist, and thanks for that. That is a niche that you fit into really great. I have written before about that vintage HJ I used to own, that shared the characteristics of the Raiders felt. That HJ I had, started to bulge out on the sides, on its own, with no help from me at all. It just seem the felt was such, that gravity caused it. And to date, it was the only felt I have ever seen like that, outside of the film. This felt is tricky stuff. The variations from felt maker to felt maker is very noticable once you have looked at alot of different felt and worked with it. I am still amazed by this, as logically it should not be so! I really think feltmaking is more of an art than a science, and this is the reason for the differences that I see and feel in various felts.

And one of these day's I'll own one of these YJ hats, their lookin good so far. So I can do a side by side w/my AB which is in with Steve for a reblock.
Croft

muh

Is it just me, or am I the only one who doesn't like the way this particular YJ hat looks? No offense, Blooze, I am glad you're happy with your purchase! Maybe the angle is what's throwing me, but I look at it and go: "Meh. I like the AB better." Also, no offense to YJ, I know you do fine work. It's just that particular photo above that I'm talking about. Maybe the photo does not do the hat justice. Got any pics of the lid on your head, Blooze?

Strider wrote:Is it just me, or am I the only one who doesn't like the way this particular YJ hat looks? No offense, Blooze, I am glad you're happy with your purchase! Maybe the angle is what's throwing me, but I look at it and go: "Meh. I like the AB better." Also, no offense to YJ, I know you do fine work. It's just that particular photo above that I'm talking about. Maybe the photo does not do the hat justice. Got any pics of the lid on your head, Blooze?

I think Blooze's new hat just needs some wear to settle in. Looks very good to me. Fedora

Agreed 100%, Fedora. A hat really shouldn't be 'judged' until it's ridden on the brow of its owner for a few months.....THEN let us take a look-see and compare.

As it is, it's a very nice hat right out of the box....but we assume it will only get better with wear. The AB beside it only gives us a glimpse of what we can anticipate the YJ may eventually look like, all things being considered.

Keep in mind, though, that (if I understood the conversation correctly), YJ's is a rabbit, and the AB is a beaver. They WILL 'age' differently....but if both are beaver, then we're talking apples to apples comparison.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:Agreed 100%, Fedora. A hat really shouldn't be 'judged' until it's ridden on the brow of its owner for a few months.....THEN let us take a look-see and compare.

As it is, it's a very nice hat right out of the box....but we assume it will only get better with wear. The AB beside it only gives us a glimpse of what we can anticipate the YJ may eventually look like, all things being considered.

Keep in mind, though, that (if I understood the conversation correctly), YJ's is a rabbit, and the AB is a beaver. They WILL 'age' differently....but if both are beaver, then we're talking apples to apples comparison.

Regards! Michaelson

Yes, and I can tell Blooze's new hat, which is brand new now, will only look better with some wear. It takes me a while with a new hat before it starts to suit me. I don't like any hat, new right from the box. Just too crisp for me personally. But with that said, Blooze's AB has developed some taper on the back, which is normal, being that it is a few years old, and worn alot. And the good thing about beaver is the felt just gets better, mellower with age and wear. The reblocked ABs always look better to me than the original hat did. Age changes felt, for the better, IMO. But really, I think most folks don't really care about this facet, the longevity of a hat. I think you have to be a real serious hat wearer, like in the old days, to appreciate this. To me there is nothing more pleasing than an old, well worn, yet intact hat, and an old, well broken in pair of boots. Heck, I still own a pair of Pivetta hiking boots I bought in the mid 70's! Been resoled many times, with Vibram soles, and are saturated with boot oil, but boy are they comfortable for heavy mountain boots. Yeah, I like old stuff, probably because I am old!! A hat should last you long enough to show you its battle scars, that forever remind you of your adventures. Then with your grandkids on your knee, you can point to one and say....that little burn spot there was when my hat was grazed by a bullet as I was running for my life, as your great grand father was shooting at me for marrying your grandmother!

What 'scares' me is I have certain hats that have become my 'seasonal' hats that I commonly go to as the seasons roll around.

I don't think much about how long I've had them, until I look inside (most are AB's) and see I've had them for literally YEARS!

You don't realize just how fast time is going by until you see those dates written on the inside of a sweatband from year to year, Steve.

As you say, those old 'go to' hats are just getting better from year to year....

Regards! Michaelson

Strider wrote:Is it just me, or am I the only one who doesn't like the way this particular YJ hat looks? No offense, Blooze, I am glad you're happy with your purchase! Maybe the angle is what's throwing me, but I look at it and go: "Meh. I like the AB better." Also, no offense to YJ, I know you do fine work. It's just that particular photo above that I'm talking about. Maybe the photo does not do the hat justice. Got any pics of the lid on your head, Blooze?

yeah, it's just you. (no offense intended, but couldn't resist)

Oh, don't worry! Since you're diving under the Plymouth, you might be surprised to find me already under here, peeking out every so often to see what's going on! I drained some coffee from Michaelson's oil filter (that's what this car runs on), so if you want some, hold out your cup...

So THAT'S why the car has been lurching lately!

Regards! Michaelson

Oop! Did I say that out loud? Dang, there goes my spot to sleep when it rains AND my supply of free coffee! Me and my big mouth!

Strider wrote:Got any pics of the lid on your head, Blooze?

They will be coming. My computer with Photoshop is down, so it may take me a couple more days.

As promise, here's some new pics





I have had it for two weeks now, and it probably has 40 hours of wear time. It has been in a lot of heat and humidity, but no rain. This is the first hat I have ever had that I have been able to get the brim distortion without tweaking it a'la G-Mann. All I have done bash-wise, is define the side dents a little more. I measured again, a little more carefully, from the bottom of the ribbon and got the following measurements:

Front - 4 3/4"
Rear - 4 1/8"
Side - 4 3/4"

I think maybe part of the reason it looks taller than the AB could be due to the slight taper the AB has aquired over the years. In person, the YJ crown is noticably fuller. It's hard to say, becuase as I said before, one is an old apple, and one is a new orange.

Really like the shots of the hat on - as mentioned somewhere else, the nice thing is that there's no exaggerated bulging of the crown, and the brim looks to do what it should for a Raiders hat. The back still seems just a schmekameter too tall to me, but as we all know, that varies between scenes in the flick. (I've never been able to get one as low in the back as it appears in the Cairo scenes.)
Does it have a custom liner/ sweat or are they the stock Christy's?

WyoWilliam wrote: Does it have a custom liner/ sweat or are they the stock Christy's?

I'm not familiar with a stock Christy's, however, the liner is a plain white one, and the sweat is embossed "Schubert Hats, The Australian Model." Yojimbo Jones has a picture of the sweat as his avatar.

DIGGIN' that side view! Front looks good, too!