Club Obi Wan

Yep I am finaly taking the plung and ordering my very first Indy jacket I have chosen a Wested *ducks as Rundquist swings* I know we had long conversations about this but economically it is my best option. Later I will get a FS. So my question is this, since it will be my first I know I want the Raiders style with gussets and the new rectangel buckels. I have a question about the zipper though. What is "screen accuret" and is it a good zipper? I have read posts where people did not like them and wanted new or different ones, why? Second, I read about the new goat that Peter has and has any one seen it yet? I refer to

"A year is a long time my friend and things change.I beleive that my new goatskin is the finest I have had tanned and will be even greater when it comes in the Authentic Fiim colour to match my Authentic Lambskin which is terrific.
Cheers
Peter"

I like the suppleness of the lamb but I also like the durablility of the goat. I live in So Cal and it's hot most of the year. What would you reccomend? Also, is there advice you may have before I order as to measurments? (I know about the 1 inch longer sleve) Or just some good old opinions. No bashing though!! Both are fine jackets and it was a tough call. Since I could drive to FS

Cheers,
Jeff

In my opinion, the FS nickel zip looks just like what you see on film. However, the Wested nickel zipper looks a bit to nickelish or shiny, or whatever you may call it. I have the standard zip on my Wested but the nickel zip on the FS goat.

As for the hides, the new goat is spot on with the lamb. whipwarrior and I compared them last Spring with Indydawg and Dakota Ellison. The goat is amazingly thin and has great drape. In fact, in my experience, the new Wested goat drapes better than the FS goat. Again, that's my experience. I understand there are some other batches of FS goat out there that happened to be thinner but I just haven't experienced them.

I think you should got with the Wested authentic goat rather than the lamb b/c it will last so much longer and you can go on a real adventure and not have to be concerned about whether you are going to snag it on a twig or something.

You may want to check out these two threads---
http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3180
http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3996

Cheers!

I.J.

Here's my .02...

Zipper topic:
The zipper color was originally supposed to be the brass. So Peter (or the costume dept.) painted the nickle zipper to a brass color. However the paint kept rubbing off to reveal the nickel color underneath so this color is debatable. You are right either way!!! In my opinion, I went for the nickle since the nickel goes better with the buckles of the MKVII and the gun belt. We have to coordinate the esemble. )

Sizing:
Please, please measure everything. If you wear a 42R, tell him. But measure the arm length three times. I basically ordered my sleeve length that way I normally wear a suit coat, first knuckle on the thumb, with your arms normally hanging down. Also make sure you have the total length measured right. On a Raiders jacket, you don't want it too low, but you do want the jacket hem to ride below the belt line. I don't think you sag, so that shouldn't be a problem. ) The usual rule of thumb is 1 inch below belt line. But it depends on your preference. You need to measure that right, so go to his web site. In fact I just came from there. It's not clear how to measure the hem line. I would measure it from the bottom of your arm pit.

Leather:
I am very biased. Lamb is the least durable hide. Yes it drapes well. Yes, it's probably the most appropriate leather for Southern California. But I do not know anyone that has bought Lamb and has not torn it. I hear the horror stories all the time. And it's not that people dragged themselves behind a truck. It's just a matter of time, when you snag your hand or arm and split.... I would recommend instead Peter's goat or his lambtouch, cowhide. Both drape very similarily to the lamb, but they are much more durable.

Other Suggestions:
I would call Peter personally. Get one of those cheap calling cards and talk to him. Write all your measurements down and tell him "how" you measured. You want to make sure he gets right the first time, so you need to talk to him. You want to avoid sending the jacket back for a redo, because it's a logistically nightmare trying to avoid paying customs AGAIN. Before you hang up from him, make sure to get the "order number". After you talk to him, I would fax him your measurements, just to have it writing, WITH YOUR ORDER NUMBER. I have ordered twice from Peter using the above process, where I leave no ambiguity on what I wanted. For the most part he followed all my instructions, with exception of gussets for both my jackets. Gussets make a world of difference as far as fit and comfort.

Anyway, that's my .02....

The process has started, so remember it's not always the destination, but the journey...

-Sergei

Sergei wrote: Leather:
...I hear the horror stories all the time. And it's not that people dragged themselves behind a truck. It's just a matter of time, when you snag your hand or arm and split.... I would recommend instead Peter's goat or his lambtouch, cowhide. Both drape very similarily to the lamb, but they are much more durable.

And yet I have been hard-pressed to find anyone with any REAL war story regarding their lamb. If I did hear of any, they were almost glad it happened. Character built into the jacket, I think was their thinking. Before opting for my lamb (had a goat prior that didn't fit to my liking - my fault), I searched and searched and asked and asked - put out a specific thread asking for these stories, and nothing. I asked, directly, one of the more established and experienced here about what he had heard, and he didn't have anything either. Band Director Jones did have his dragged under a bus and it suffered only a small hole, I believe he said. The most I could really ever deduce was the perceived notion (and probably true...I'm really not griping here) of the lamb's weakness compared to the goat or other skin or hide.

I am pleased I opted for the lamb this time. Only having it for a few days now, it's not seen much action. And maybe I'll rip it tomorrow. But if I do, I will be sure to post. I would also encourage others (again) to say exactly why not to get the lambskin and relate their actual bad lamb experiences or the ones they know about.

I agree on the color. I had the authentic goat, and the color is the same as this authentic lamb I have on now. The goat was shinier, new, but it subsided fairly quickly.

Hope everyone's weekend was what you hoped for. I bid you a pleasant and fruitful week.

Cab

Brass zip. Brass zip. Im with Sergei here.

Can anyone that owns the newer thicker authentic lamb comment? I agree the old dark brown lamb is a little thin, and my goatskin jacket is super tough. Hey, you could always ask Peter to send you a swatch of both, and make your decision that way...!

I J

Thank you all, this is helping me quite a bit. Keep `em comming.

Cheers,
Jeff

My 2 cents:
Many people seem to waiver between the authentic lamb (because its the actual jacket) and the goatskin (because its the most durable)

I say go the cowhide (I did)
I haven't heard anyone say the goatskin looked better than the cowhide (I could be wrong, anyone?) but many people pick it due to the 'extra toughness' ?

The only thing I've read about the cows durability here is people complaining in the gear distressing section that it is very difficult to artifically age - which to my thinking means its pretty tough !

Cabinetman wrote:

Sergei wrote: Leather:
...I hear the horror stories all the time. And it's not that people dragged themselves behind a truck. It's just a matter of time, when you snag your hand or arm and split.... I would recommend instead Peter's goat or his lambtouch, cowhide. Both drape very similarily to the lamb, but they are much more durable.

And yet I have been hard-pressed to find anyone with any REAL war story regarding their lamb. .Cab

Well in my memory I know that within a few hours of wearing their brand new Wested lambs NeosMatrix and Koreana Jun ripped theirs. I know MK and Indiana Joe ripped their lambs.

Just doing a few searches here:
http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=lamb+rip

http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=lamb+rip

http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=lamb+rip

This version of the IndyGear forum board has not been up for very long, but I knew at IndyFan there were stories. So there are more than you think. I know Jun was really, really mad. So was Neosmatrix.

Just something to consider.

-S

Good threads, Sergei. Thanks. Apparently I didn't look quite as extensively as I had thought. I do remember when Neos originally posted that. It made me sick, too. I have seen Canasta's repairs. Really, they look good. I may regret not getting the goat this go around. Nah. I won't. I made as informed a decision as I felt I could at the time, so a regret really isn't allowed. We'll see, I guess. Steady as she goes...

C

I've had my authentic lambskin since last April. Am wearing it today. No regrets or problems what so ever to date. Regards. Michaelson

Dont' get me wrong Cabinetman. I find lamb to be a great looker. But you did put up the challenge you couldn' t find any REAL war stories. )

I just shook my head when I saw that. It's just people need to be fully aware of what they are potentially getting themselves into with a particular hide. It's just plain physics. Different hides are ranked by a durability quotient that is due to the way the fibers are structurally organized. The labs rank the following leathers from higher to low:
- Kangaroo, Goat, Deer, Horse, Cow, and then Lamb is way at the bottom

-Sergei

Not at all...I appreciate you posting those threads as you did. Good information.

I never thought lamb wasn't the weakest or least durable. It was never a question of hide strength. I just couldn't get anyone (for the most part) to step up and tell their story.

Cab

The first choice for an Indy jacket should always be goatskin in my opinion. If you buy a Wested, lambtouch cowhide is just as good a choice. I love lambskin in an Indy jacket and I've never torn mine, but it's not as durable as other leathers, plain and simple. Cheers

PS - Contrary to what people may think, I've always said that everyone should own a Wested . I just don't think that owning a Wested should stop anybody from owning an Expedition.

Indiana Joe wrote: In fact, in my experience, the new Wested goat drapes better than the FS goat. Again, that's my experience. I understand there are some other batches of FS goat out there that happened to be thinner but I just haven't experienced them.


I.J.

I have a friend that owns both the Wested & FS Indy jackets in goatskin. From his experience, initially the Wested goatskin does drape better than the FS goatskin. Then the Wested goatskin starts to loosen up and loose it's body. Then the pleats start opening up and start staying open all the time. An FS goatskin Expedition will start to drape better, but it does take some real wear time for that to happen. Cheers

I know it has been said before by many more learned members of this board than myself, but it depends what you are going to DO in your jacket.
My opinion is that the lamb is great for wearing to the office, out at night etc., is very very comfortable, drapes well and looks authentic. I happen to think the authentic lamb IS pretty durable, to a degree - I mean it's not exactly tissue paper or anything, it is leather.
But for adventures, it is the goat - am getting one myself soon for that very purpose -camping, hill walking or finding lost treasures... Plus, it has additional waterproof qualities, is warmer than the lamb and Wested tell me the colur is an EXACT match. Sounds good to me.

Regards

Alan

Just to agree, and restate what I've said for years....lambskin is for the 'urban archaeologist', great for going to the mall, out to dinner and a movie. I would not wear it in the woods, though I know of a jacket or two that HAVE gone to the field, and are breaking in nicely, thank you very much, with no problems at all. For all around strength, goatskin, hands down. All that said, to address one point you did ask in your opening post, goatskin IS warmer than lambskin to wear. It's in the mid 60's here in Tennessee today, and I STILL opted to wear my Wested lambskin over my FS goat due to it's warm characteristics, especially during this WONDERFUL Fall time of cold air outside the car, baking your brains out INSIDE the car, type temps we enjoy. The lambskin can deal with those shifts in temps better than goatskin, in my experience. If you are concerned about that, it is something to think about when ordering. As an aside, I do believe the FS lambskin to be completely different in feel than the Wested. It may be that it has less of a 'drag' feel to it, due to being tanned in New Zealand, where the Wested lambskin is Italian. Not sure, but it's something I'd suggest you take a look at too. Regards. Michaelson

Another thing to keep in mind about the zipper is that the screen-used jacket had a zipper that went almost all the way down to the bottom of the jacket hem, whereas the Wested (and FS) stops about 2 inches short. This could really bug you if you are into screen accuracy, but other than that it's no prob. Something to keep in mind at any rate...

-John

I don't think the zipper leangth would bug me. As far as the jacket, I am leaning towards the Raiders Authentic Goat, brass zipper, rectangle buckels, gussets, cross stiching, extra inch in the arm and front with a taper to the sleve and umm...what else should I be aware of? I think the problems that plegued the jacket in the past have been hammered out, right? Any one...

Cheers,
Jeff

I've had an Avirex Cowhide A-2 for about 16 years now. That sucker is near indestructible...multiple trips to Asia, Europe, around the US. No question for me that cowhide is tough as nails. It's also very warm...AND heavy as a brick. Therefore, I went with Wested authentic goat for a lighter jacket. Hard to believe Peter can get goat that thin. After wearing the cow A-2 for so long I have to keep checking the Wested goat to make sure it is there. How durable will it be? We'll see....

My Avirex A-2 is 18 years old now...and is now the property of my youngest daughter who STILL puts it through it's paces. Don't worry, the goatskin, ANY goatskin, is equal to the job that our old Avirex's performed all those years. Regards. Michaelson

Mine (or I should say my fathers, as I grew out of it after two years) is 16 years old. Avirex used to make really sweet jackets. Mine was in cow hide too, as I couldn't afford the price of horsehide. I finally got a horsehide A-2 in 1990 from Flight Suits (that doesn't fit anymore either ). Cheers

Michaelson wrote:

Don't worry, the goatskin, ANY goatskin, is equal to the job that our old Avirex's performed all those years

.....now I'm REALLY looking forward to my new goat arriving....

Well, that's always better than waiting for some OLD goat to arrive. (whoops, sorry, didn't mean to speak ill of our friend Indiana Jess again. ) High regards. Michaelson

Just pitching in my two cents here, my FS goatskin jacket is now 15 years old and going strong....


FWIW...

-L

I appreceate the input fellas. Since I am less then a week from ordering what things should I know about the details? I remember problems with pocket placement and other such things. Do I need to be specific on these or has it been worked out? I know other people get very specific when ordering. Since it's my first and it has been a long time in the savings process I want to make sure I do this right from the start.

Cheers,
Jeff

Michaelson wrote:

Well, that's always better than waiting for some OLD goat to arrive

Good luck with your jacket Jeff, I'm sure it will be ace!

Regards to all

Alan

PS - With both my wested orders I did not specify any particular pocket placement etc. I am not too obsessed with 'screen accuracy' myself, although some folks are and all power to them for that, but on my new jacket I HAVE asked for gussets, the smaller raiders collar and an extra inch at the front - it's all about personal preference. This is your jacket - decide what you would like, how you want it to fit and email / call Peter with your requests, he (and all at Wested) are great to deal with and can best advise you on any aspect of the jacket production. By the way, from your order going in to production starting is usually a short while, so don't be afraid to contact Peter after emailing your order with any questions or changes. With my new jacket, I even changed the HIDE three days later, much to Wested's mirth........phew, that was some P.S.!

I'd see if I could get Peter to shave a 1/4' inch to a 1/2' inch off the regular Raiders collar. The collars on Wested jackets are a little wide for an Indy jacket in my opinion (no matter which one you order). Cheers

PS- See if you can get him to give you two piece gussets instead of a one piece gusset.

Hi Rundquist

Whats that I hear? 2 piece gussets are better, with mine already ordered and all........... :

Could you explain what the difference is please?

Cheers,

Alan

The two-piece gussets are more authentic is all. That's what the original had. They look like a pair of puckered lips. Cheers

Well I guess the last thing is to get measured up. I went to a local men's suit store to conferm that I am a 44 short. I know this has been asked before but can some one point me in the right direction as how to measure myself? or should I use FS system to do it? I just want to be as spicific as I can so the fit will be spot on. I will have my girlfriend do the actual measuring.

Cheers,
Jeff

PS- I was thinking of having my name or initials on the inside. What looks nicer, my initails JKJ or my name J Jackson or my full name Jeff Jackson? any input would be nice.

I just ordered mine.

I got the my full name, situated just below the wested label
on the upper inside of the jacket.

You're getting a fully personalised jacket, (to me at least) it just seems right to get your full name in it...

Gobler wrote: PS- I was thinking of having my name or initials on the inside. What looks nicer, my initails JKJ or my name J Jackson or my full name Jeff Jackson? any input would be nice.

I'd keep it simplistic being careful not to get too many letters in there..."Indiana T.X Girl" (notice the one period...sorry the Grammar Girl in me took big notice of that)

Unfortunately, when my authentic lambskin was made last Spring, his lettering machine was down, so I didn't get my moniker in my jacket. Oh welll Regards. Michaelson

I asked for my name on mine too; not terribly sure how they are going to put it on there though. Either way, I concur with "getting a custom jacket might as well get your name on it"

Not to be contrary, but I don’t really see the point of requesting your name be monikered on the inside of your jacket except maybe for ego reasons. After all, I know who I am. Of course this may one day become essential as I reach a certain age and have trouble remembering where I parked my car as a certain member here has at times pointed out. When that time comes it might help to take a peek inside your jacket every once and a while. ...just to make sure.

Having your name inside your jacket sure wouldn’t protect it from being stolen when it’s hanging on some office hanger or in some waiting room. But then I’m sure this extra step in personalizing your jacket is..., well, personal.

Rixter wrote:Not to be contrary, but I don’t really see the point of requesting your name be monikered on the inside of your jacket except maybe for ego reasons. After all, I know who I am. Of course this may one day become essential as I reach a certain age and have trouble remembering where I parked my car as a certain member here has at times pointed out. When that time comes it might help to take a peek inside your jacket every once and a while. ...just to make sure.

Having your name inside your jacket sure wouldn’t protect it from being stolen when it’s hanging on some office hanger or in some waiting room. But then I’m sure this extra step in personalizing your jacket is..., well, personal.

I had my name embroidered in my Expo because after I saw the mass ammounts of hats and jackets being passed around @ the QM, I was surprised everyone got their own stuff back! Of course most people on this board (except Chamorro) could probably use my jacket as a tent, but I digress.
I would go with a nickel zipper on your Wested Gobler. The Antique Brass one that my Lambtouch has isn't even close to screen accurate. Your choices of everything else looks good though.
PBG

Hey Gobler,
I just got both my authentic lamb skin and Cabinetmans authentic goat this summer. Both were ordered about the same time and I have to tell you the color is pretty much the exact same on both. The goat has a bit more shine to it and as expected is a little stiffer. The lambskin is great for looks but I feel so much better when out hiking, or fossil hunting in the goat. If seen the thorn bushes just brush off to the side as I go past them in the goat and I really wouldn't want to chance that with the lamb. i do have to say that the lamb looks incredible but if the jackets for real abuse and adventure go goat.
Lindiana
Lindiana

Lindiana wrote:Hey Gobler,
I just got both my authentic lamb skin and Cabinetmans authentic goat this summer. Both were ordered about the same time and I have to tell you the color is pretty much the exact same on both. The goat has a bit more shine to it and as expected is a little stiffer. The lambskin is great for looks but I feel so much better when out hiking, or fossil hunting in the goat. If seen the thorn bushes just brush off to the side as I go past them in the goat and I really wouldn't want to chance that with the lamb. i do have to say that the lamb looks incredible but if the jackets for real abuse and adventure go goat.
Lindiana
Lindiana

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I love my Wested authentic goat!!

Rixter, you make a point.

Having a name inside the jacket isn't really a theft deterrent. I find that you either are in a place with TONS of westeds (ie a Summit) or in a place where yours is the ONLY wested, so it's fairly easy to spot it in the latter.

Mostly ego, what can I say I've never had a tailor made jacket before and I'm thrilled skinny about it!

Being one with a name in her jacket, I think it really boils down to personal preference. For me it's just a neat feature to get that you can't with most any other piece of personal clothing. So why not get it? Before you start saying that those with it do for their ego, you might want to take a moment to realize that there are some out there that don't get it for their ego. Please don't group all of us who want our jackets personalized with an embossed name tag into the same category.

Indiana Texas Girl,
I think you misunderstand. Ego isn't a bad word. Everyone has an ego.
Letting your ego 'get out control' is bad.

I like the idea of seeing my name in my jacket, thats why I asked for it to be put in there. Its my personal preference.

I think he just means, if it doesn't serve a functional purpose (which it really doesn't) its an ego thing, ie. just because you like it

My apologies Rixter and SAB. SAB, when Rixter originally posted, it didn't come across that way but in reading it with your perspective, that's probably what he meant. If that is the case, then everyone can just disregard my statement above. He told me offline that he meant it as a joke, but I didn't take it that way if that is the case. It's really tough, at times, to decipher on a forum when someone is joking. I guess with the forum climate we've had recently, I have just gotten tired of personal attacks and took it as such. Rixter and I have spoken offline, and now it's clear we've misunderstood one another just a bit. I probably came across harder than I meant to because it was late when I wrote it. So my apologies as well.

Well, I personally think that our good friend Rixter has completely overlooked one extremely important reason for a name being inside the jacket....ego aside, occasionally I need a solid reminder of who the heck I am during those brief but terrible senior moments. If I had it put in my jacket, all I'd have to do is pretend to stretch, glance down, see my name, then continue my nomal conversation as if nothing had happened. As it is now, all can now do is look confused for a couple of seconds, then move on. So, my good Rixter, there could very well be a good reason for those names in the jackets besides ego or theft protection.....it's there to help folks remain a functional part of our community. Ok, ok, I'll go quietly now, just make sure you put my name inside my strait jacket, if you please....and make sure the action pleats are working...... High regards, Michaelson (looking for his morning cup of coffee!)

I'm glad to know I'm not the only coffee addict around here....


-L

Yep, there are a BUNCH of us around here, my friend! (grins) Regards. Michaelson

Indiana Texas-girl wrote:... He told me offline that he meant it as a joke, but I didn't take it that way if that is the case. ...Rixter and I have spoken offline, and now it's clear we've misunderstood one another just a bit. I probably came across harder than I meant to because it was late when I wrote it. So my apologies as well.

What??? He wasn't joking? Did Rixter use the "Good Fellas" dialog on ya?? Because if he did.... Oh, man, what till I get a hold of him... Did he?

-Sergei
p.s. Did I do that right, Rixter? ) Gottya!!

Little off topic.... but here's my ego at ya!

Michaelson is correct.

After a heavy drinking session, when trying to explain what happened, the police generally frown upon people who cannot remember their own name.
Soon I shall have my Wested and this will be a thing of the past.

Ahh, I just wish I had a digital camera. On my G-1 there is a name tag with Lt. Comdr. blah, blah. (my full name). Now that’s ego. Of course I could have chose an even higher rank, but thank goodness I was able to show a bit of restraint. No sense overdoing ego, right???

Anyway, as long as folks are apologizing, let me add mine. To all those with embossed name tags on the inside of their Wested’s that I may have unfairly lumped together as having ego’s, please consider yourselves now, ...er, unlumped! I deeply regret any pain or anguish this may have caused those with small ego's, huge ego's or no ego’s. (How’s that for sincerity)

ITG, I agree that in this 2-dimensional media you allude to, it’s easy to overlook the sensitivities of each and every individual personality that makes up any group, but on-the-other-hand, it would be a pretty dull forum without any humor, IMHO. Obviously I may have crossed that line with you, however unintentionally. (Deja Vu-gie all over again).

Now Michaelson, excuse me, but I don’t really believe that you have yet suffered from any senior moments, but I do see your point such as it is.

...oh, and Sergei, why whatever do you mean?!?! <feigns ignorance>

Here's the problem. After I get squared away with the bills and get ahead I'm getting a lambstouch for Solera, my wife (She named her self after the cat). Now... we'll have two lambstouch about the same size. Who's is whos?

Also, I do indeed have a big ego. We keep it in the basement and feed it two meals a day of pride and arrogance...