Club Obi Wan

So I'd like to start by accentuating the positive:
1) I worked with plaster for the first time and actually produced a shape of some sort.
2) Subdued sense of accomplishment.

As for the negative, well:
everything else

Originally I was going to go for the Brody prescribed method of making a wood block by stacking several ovals. Seems like a good idea. Then I read an old post by Nicholas Jones about making a plaster block with a tube shaped like an oval. Seemed like an even easier idea! I drove around for an hour or more collecting supplies and FINALLY the nice lady at Michael's hooked me up with some plaster.

I had my measurements taken with a little bit too much hair and got just under 59cm. I measured my poster board before coiling it and marked it at just under 60, then coiled it to that point. Maybe I should have cut it at the point so there would be no awkward seam?

Here is where I think I went wrong:
1) I used duct tape around poster board because I couldn't find a suitable flexible yet rigid plastic sheet. The places where the tape overlapped made stripes in the walls of the block. [see pictures]
2) I made an oval cut-out to fit the top so it would keep its shape but failed to make one for the bottom. Disastrous results. The Base is a circle the top is Oval-ish. [also visible in pictures]
3) I ran out of plaster halfway though and had to make a hour round trip to get some more and finish the block. As as result the walls were pitted and crumbly in places.

Now I'm left having spent $30 in gas and plaster, 3-4 hours of my life, and all I have to show for it is a a lump of plaster suitable for little more than a garden gnome in sitting position.

Well, that and the experience.

So I'm left wondering, do I buy a hat and wait on the professionals, or get back on that horse and ride? Assuming I get back on, does anyone have any advice to share, maybe you've been here before or know something that would make my life easier?

Thanks

http://img685.imageshack.us/i/dsc0458sg.jpg/
http://img25.imageshack.us/i/dsc0457h.jpg/
http://img163.imageshack.us/i/dsc0456gc.jpg/
http://img229.imageshack.us/i/dsc0455d.jpg/

Well, I have to say, the idea to use posterboard to make a tube is pretty clever On some block related thread, I read the suggestion of using insulating foam to make the block. Apparently it's stiff enough not only to form the block, but also rough enough that you could use excess insulation to sand the block. I imagine it'd be easier to cut the insulation than wood (though I must admit, I'm not entirely sure what the exact insulation to be used is). However, the posterboard tube might be able to be corrected if you used properly shaped ovals as endcaps on the tube, to make sure that the tube stays oval all the way up. Foam board might be good for the endcaps

-Daryl

Ah, yes. The memories. I'm just really not sure about the whole plaster thing. At one stage I tried to take a reference mold of a brim. It's messy, your wife gets upset with you messing up the kitchen and wrecking her assorted utensils / trays / bowls (of course -I- would never do such a thing! ) and takes just as much effort to deal with as working with wood does.

The other advantage of wood is it allows you to make the excuse of going outside to work. You just end up with sawdust rather than a big pile of powder, and a "real" block at the end of your work. You can then lacquer it and it looks cool.

That's the thing my friend. To do it right it will cost you a lot of money. I made many hats and messed up many expensive raw bodies trying to learn. If you are doing it just to make a hat or two for yourself. It's not worth it just for that. If it's about learning. Be prepared to spend lots of money.

It's like any hobby I guess. It comes down why you're doing it. For those of us who have spent years doing up old cars, you know the thing has cost you far more than you could ever make by selling it. It's the same with making hats.

To me it's not so much the money but the time. It cost me all of $30 for the timber that I used to make my Raiders block, but the time...? Man, it was like easy 8 hours a week for about 2-3 months to get that thing right. I believe in measure twice, cut once, but I admit I am a neurotic freak.

As long as I could make myself a hat for less than or about the same as it cost me to buy one of the high quality Penmans or Adventurebilts, and I learned a new set of skills, had fun figuring things out, and could proudly say the hat on my head was made with my own hands, I was a happy camper. It was all about the challenge, and that was worth my time and money.

You could try what I did and make it from styrofoam. It's pretty much the same process as the tutorial for making it from wood.

That actually sounds like a block that would work for me as my head is wider from ear to ear and I need a bit more of a circle to get the fabled "swoop". I turn all my hats completely sideways to get the swoop but I lose crown shape and definition as a result.

So I'm left wondering, do I buy a hat and wait on the professionals, or get back on that horse and ride? Assuming I get back on, does anyone have any advice to share, maybe you've been here before or know something that would make my life easier?

I would just watch ebay for a block in your size. And one that looks like it has little taper on the sides. I own probably over a hundred vintage blocks from ebay, and many pull of the Indy look well. Plus, they come with the right differentials for regular ovals and you can even find long ovals there too. That is how I started, and then either sanded off some of the block, or added bondo to build it up. Still have my very first block that I made, using a vintage block as the starting point. There are easier ways to acquire a hat block than making one yourself. I am a skilled woodworker, and making one completely by hand is a challenge even to an experienced person, if you want it to be symetrical in all areas. And very, very labor intensive and time consuming as well. I think you can still buy those plastic blocks online too. Just don't do like Rick 5150 and bake it in the oven!!! Sorry Rick, I have never forgot you telling me about you doing that!

Making your own hat block can be rewarding, but frustrating and expensive as you climb the learning curve. Sometimes it is just cheaper to buy one.

Yojimbo Jones wrote:It's like any hobby I guess. It comes down why you're doing it. For those of us who have spent years doing up old cars, you know the thing has cost you far more than you could ever make by selling it. It's the same with making hats.

To me it's not so much the money but the time. It cost me all of $30 for the timber that I used to make my Raiders block, but the time...? Man, it was like easy 8 hours a week for about 2-3 months to get that thing right. I believe in measure twice, cut once, but I admit I am a neurotic freak.

As long as I could make myself a hat for less than or about the same as it cost me to buy one of the high quality Penmans or Adventurebilts, and I learned a new set of skills, had fun figuring things out, and could proudly say the hat on my head was made with my own hands, I was a happy camper. It was all about the challenge, and that was worth my time and money.

I went a different way. Went with blocks that was already made and had them changed to what I thought it should be. Never trusted myself with making blocks. I wanted to fine tune skills at hat making. I spent many hours each day, every day for months trying to get the finer details down because I wanted more than a hat. I wanted one that was well polished. The small details of hat making was very important to me. It wasn't good enough just to have a finished hat that looked good in a photo. It had to have those small details done very well.

I think his question is a smart one. If he is asking is it worth it? I would say to him no. If you have to ask the question, the answer is automatically a no.


If you are doing it just for a hat or two. It's not worth it. You have to ask why you are doing it?

I know for myself it didn't matter that I would wreck hat body after hat body. Trying to get a pounce job a certain way. If you guys knew how much money I tossed a side in raw bodies, you would most likely think I'm mad.

BendingOak wrote:If you guys knew how much money I tossed a side in raw bodies, you would most likely think I'm mad.

Think you mad? Not hardly.

In order to be the best you can be in your chosen craft, it requires practice practice practice. You can't make an omelette without breaking an egg....and you can't become a master hatmaker (or master ANY thing for that matter) without going through the required learning curve.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:

BendingOak wrote:If you guys knew how much money I tossed a side in raw bodies, you would most likely think I'm mad.

Think you mad? Not hardly.

In order to be the best you can be in your chosen craft, it requires practice practice practice. You can't make an omelette without breaking an egg....and you can't become a master hatmaker (or master ANY thing for that matter) without going through the required learning curve.

Regards! Michaelson

I treated the materials mostly the raw bodies as if they cost me a dime. In fact they cost a lot more but like you stated. You got to break some eggs. I never added up the total but my accountants knows and she's told me when I asked her " don't ask if you don't want to cry" so, I never asked.


I don't think people know what it will cost to do things right. It's more than pulling a raw body over a block, cutting the brim, hitting it with sand paper and sewing parts on.

The cost and time that I estimated was way, way , way under what it has turned out to be. You know what the funny thing is. I could have had more hats if I didn't learn to make hats.

If you get frustrated easily, hatting is probably not for you.

I say get back on the horse, you haven't sacrificed a raw body yet! I made one block out of styrofoam, and made myself a "Man in the Yellow Hat" hat, and it was such a blast. Now I'm working on a wooden block for the kids before I tackle my own. I think it's worth it, just for the experience, but you'll probably want an expert hat too I do it out of necessity. I want more hats than my wife allows, but I can make as many as I'd like

BendingOak wrote:If you have to ask the question, the answer is automatically a no.

That's a very good point. But like I said, it depends on what payoff he wants from it. If he's doing it purely to save a buck, he has to have a healthy idea of what his time is worth, not just the materials.

oh yes....the first hat....always a disaster if you are picturing what you want to get out of it in the end. there are alot of things to learn and skills to acquire. what the hatters here taught me was "don't give up yet".....if you really want to sport a fedora and tell people you made it....then watch them taunt you in disbelief....it was worth all the effort in the end.

i think i'm bucking for my next great close enough....still got some junk in the basement

call ohio jones.....if you really, really, really want a perfect hat block

G, Great to see you posting and thank you for the compliments. Glad you liked the block/blocks I made you!

Yes yes...first block I ever made I thought was so great....wow..was I wrong..lol...but after lots of practice....I got it.

I would say a wood block is the only way to go. I tossed around the idea of plaster only because I thought it would be quicker. But sometimes the faster you go the farther behind you get. I would never consider anything but wood. Its A LOT of work...but even if you mess up.....you can add back to it...maybe not with wood...but with bondo...then you just stain the whole thing and it looks pretty good.

Good luck in your block making.

If you want to save some money in the long run. Get one from ohio jones. He does fantastic work. You might spend some $$$ up front but will save yourself time and money in the log run.

Yojimbo Jones wrote:

BendingOak wrote:If you have to ask the question, the answer is automatically a no.

That's a very good point. But like I said, it depends on what payoff he wants from it. If he's doing it purely to save a buck, he has to have a healthy idea of what his time is worth, not just the materials.

I think you missed my point. I myself never had to ask that question. I never had any doubt in my mind. Its like going though the testing for the FDNY. If you have any doubt or have to ask that question, you will never make it. You have to be hungry, very , very hungry.


sloan,

This is the best advise I can give you. If you just want to make a hat for yourself to wear to save money. don't do it. You can not make a hat for yourself that is of any value with just a few attempts. If you want to make hats for the joy of doing it, then money and time shouldn't matter. If you want to make yourself a hat that you can be proud of. Get ready to spend more money and time then you can get your mind around.

Thanks everyone for all of the excellent assorted advice. I'm still processing it. Block buying might be a good move...

Is it silly to want to build a hat just for yourself? I think that with all of this input I’ve arrived at a place where I can comfortably say it really is all in what you expect to get out of it. I hold no delusions of pulling a museum piece off the block. I’d be somewhat pleased to pull a Dorfman off the block, to be honest (now that I think about it, wool might not be a bad practice felt).

I think my mindset when it comes to all things IndyGear is still wedged where it was when I last left as a sophomore in high school circa 2002. I lurked a lot on the old board but back then I interpreted everything to be very do-it-yourself. If you wanted a hat your options didn’t include some of the more popular offerings that we’re lucky to have today. The only things I purchased were those that I simply could not make (I still have my letter, hand-signed by Noel Howard from buying one of the last MK VII’s in his stock). For everything else I wouldn’t trade those hours distressing leather and painting my own lucky charm lighter for anything – and if you saw my lighter you really wouldn’t know what I had to be proud of.

College put me off and on and all over the place for a while but now I’m back to my roots and a few weeks ago a sudden desire to finish what I started years ago came over me. We all have our reasons for collecting and creating this stuff and for me, I just can’t get over the character. Indy resonates with me now just like he did when I was a 14-year-old. In a way this gear takes me back to those first times I ever watched the films.

If I do keep trying with this hat-making endeavor, I hope I don’t end up with just a couple of nice hats preceded by a ton of ruined felt (or, perhaps the more likely scenario of a mediocre hat preceded by a ton of ruined felt).

What I’d really love is for someone, in the end, to ask me what I gained from it and for me to respond, with enthusiam, “Illumination!”

Thanks again, guys for the encouragement/rationality

I have always been a fan of DIY... Not for the sake of saving money, but for the learning experience. Learning something new is always worth the time, effort and money.

BendingOak wrote:

Yojimbo Jones wrote:

BendingOak wrote:If you have to ask the question, the answer is automatically a no.

That's a very good point. But like I said, it depends on what payoff he wants from it. If he's doing it purely to save a buck, he has to have a healthy idea of what his time is worth, not just the materials.

I think you missed my point. I myself never had to ask that question. I never had any doubt in my mind. Its like going though the testing for the FDNY. If you have any doubt or have to ask that question, you will never make it. You have to be hungry, very , very hungry.

I got your point - I wholeheartedly agree. I was just allowing for the passion to grow from the experience. Sometimes you don't "cowboy up" to a challenge until it has punched you in the face a bit. I don't think any of us here would have expected to become as obsessive about getting things right when we started coming to COW.

Indiana Sloan wrote: If I do keep trying with this hat-making endeavor, I hope I don’t end up with just a couple of nice hats preceded by a ton of ruined felt (or, perhaps the more likely scenario of a mediocre hat preceded by a ton of ruined felt).

What I’d really love is for someone, in the end, to ask me what I gained from it and for me to respond, with enthusiam, “Illumination!”

i have about over a dozen 'junked hats'.....maybe close to 20.....abominations of my early days and stepping stones for honing each individual skill. i have 3 nice hats that i can wear in public.....and then there is my last hat.....i can honestly say "illumination" to that question

i have materials (other than a hat body) to make one last perfect one....which i am saving to do for a rainy day

I was just wondering... how ruined is ruined when it comes to hat bodies? Are they literally ripped apart from pulling or are they just misshapen?

I don't even want to count how many hat bodies that have died a horrible death in the pursuit of learning. I treat raw bodies as if they cost me a dime. I keep most of the ruined bodies in my garage, not my shop. Dont want to know the cost. There are so many I could stack them up and they would be taller than my ten year old.

Short answer to you would be.............. ruined as not able to be used for a customer.

BendingOak wrote:
Short answer to you would be.............. ruined as not able to be used for a customer.

But good for experimenting on????

Some are still good for that but a lot had to be tossed.

To follow-up on where Ohio Jones seems to be going...

perhaps there's a secondary market possibility for reselling 'ruined' hat bodies for those that are wanting to experiment/learn. The hatters could recoop some of the cost of the original body and the customer could get a hat body to practice without having to spend quite as much.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Indiana Jeff wrote:To follow-up on where Ohio Jones seems to be going...

perhaps there's a secondary market possibility for reselling 'ruined' hat bodies for those that are wanting to experiment/learn. The hatters could recoop some of the cost of the original body and the customer could get a hat body to practice without having to spend quite as much.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Great idea!

Indiana Jeff wrote:To follow-up on where Ohio Jones seems to be going...

perhaps there's a secondary market possibility for reselling 'ruined' hat bodies for those that are wanting to experiment/learn. The hatters could recoop some of the cost of the original body and the customer could get a hat body to practice without having to spend quite as much.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

It wouldn't really work because you wouldn't be working on a true raw body. I will never let any of my ruined bodies see the light of day. I rather throw them out.
There is only one way to learn it all and that is by doing it over and over again with high quality raw bodies and that costs. There is no way around it.

Indiana Jeff wrote:To follow-up on where Ohio Jones seems to be going...

perhaps there's a secondary market possibility for reselling 'ruined' hat bodies for those that are wanting to experiment/learn. The hatters could recoop some of the cost of the original body and the customer could get a hat body to practice without having to spend quite as much.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Oh...I just meant that after reading Oaks comment about the bodies in his garage that he might have used them to hone a particular skill or try something totally off the wall before he does it to a new raw body. That's all. I have tons of blocks, various hat tools, and heck even longbows that i have made that didn't work out. I keep them in back of the shop just to have in case I need to prototype something, and I can use them before I go ahead.

Thanks for the kind words to Oak...they are much appreciated!

Ohio Jones wrote:

Indiana Jeff wrote:To follow-up on where Ohio Jones seems to be going...

perhaps there's a secondary market possibility for reselling 'ruined' hat bodies for those that are wanting to experiment/learn. The hatters could recoop some of the cost of the original body and the customer could get a hat body to practice without having to spend quite as much.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Oh...I just meant that after reading Oaks comment about the bodies in his garage that he might have used them to hone a particular skill or try something totally off the wall before he does it to a new raw body. That's all. I have tons of blocks, various hat tools, and heck even longbows that i have made that didn't work out. I keep them in back of the shop just to have in case I need to prototype something, and I can use them before I go ahead.

Thanks for the kind words to Oak...they are much appreciated!

You deserve them my friend.


Thats exactly what I do. I still use them for some testing pouncing, distressing, or to test a block shape.