Club Obi Wan

OK folks, it's time for my first fedora!

Mitch's... Just because: hats, Hats, HATS! http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46878 thread has inspired me.

Let me preface this with: I have never been what you would call a hat wearer. I’ve worn the occasional army surplus hat as a sun hat when camping but that’s about it. I have no idea if I will like wearing a hat regularly or if a fedora will look good (heck I’ll settle for little kids not running in terror) on my big ol’noggin. I like the concept / idea of it but not sure if the reality will work for me.

Now having said all that I do want to give myself the best shot at wearing whatever hat I do get. I’ve researched the various offerings that I think are reasonable starter hats and, of course with upgrade-itis, moved up to a possible custom hat. I’m not, at this time, considering an AB as I don’t want to invest that time or money into something that may only come out when I’m in full gear. Now IF a fedora works for me... but that is still a ways down the road.

Hats I’m considering:
Todd’s Uptowner / Downtowner
Akubra Federation IV
Henry
Penman custom – this would be the upgrade-itis option (Dang Penman's post'em up thread)

Is a fedora wearable in the summer? (Think 30C / 85F with humidity) Is it wearable for rain or snow? Research has lead me to mixed reviews on these points. I think this will probably come down to the weather proofing of the felt and the quality or type of felt, beaver vs. rabbit.

Is it something I can use as a “beater” yard work hat if I decide I’m not a daily wearer? Think of it as natural distressing.
For any jacket guys in here can I BEAT THE @%&# OUT OF IT like I can my TN CS jacket which I do wear daily or at least until it hits about 20C / 77F.

Any of them have a more CS vibe then the others? I think from my research that would be the Henry or Penman custom.

Is having a larger than normal head size at approx. 63cm, going to lead to trouble? I’ve noticed on some websites sizes can be limited.

Any other comments or suggestions are welcome.

Cheers all,

Swiftfoot / Patrick

Swiftfoot wrote:OK folks, it's time for my first fedora!

Excellent! Excellent!

I’ve researched the various offerings that I think are reasonable starter hats and, of course with upgrade-itis, moved up to a possible custom hat.

That's good. I recommend NOT going custom for your first hat, but there's no reason you can't get a decent one.

Hats I’m considering:
Todd’s Uptowner / Downtowner
Akubra Federation IV
Henry
Penman custom – this would be the upgrade-itis option (Dang Penman's post'em up thread)

As much as it HURTs to say this - don't get the Penman... yet. Like I said, don't go custom for the first.
Of your list, I think the Akubra is the most bang for your buck. Excellent, proven hats, good price (even with overseas shipping). The Henry is probably a good choice, but it costs almost the same as a custom rabbit felt Penman, so...

Is a fedora wearable in the summer? (Think 30C / 85F with humidity) Is it wearable for rain or snow? Research has lead me to mixed reviews on these points. I think this will probably come down to the weather proofing of the felt and the quality or type of felt, beaver vs. rabbit.

A felt fedora in humid summer temps is not a great idea, but some do it. Better in dry heat, and if you must, take out the liner. Rain and snow, for a good felt hat, is no problem. I don't know the quality of Todd's, but the others on your list should be fine in wet conditions. If in doubt, a little spray of Scout can't hurt.

For summer, I recommend straw.

Is it something I can use as a “beater” yard work hat if I decide I’m not a daily wearer? For any jacket guys in here can I BEAT THE @%&# OUT OF IT like I can my TN CS jacket which I do wear daily or at least until it hits about 20C / 77F.

The Penman and the Akubra, yes. The others... not sure.

Any of them have a more CS vibe then the others?

Only the Todd's can be removed from the list for sure. The Henry - I don't know. The Fed IV was recently modified to more CS-like specs, and a Penman can be whatever you want.

Is having a larger than normal head size at approx. 63cm, going to lead to trouble?

Yes. The Akubra is one of the few hats available in sizes over 61.

My overall feel is that the Akubra is, with few exceptions, the perfect hat to start with. It's well worth the $$$ and easy to service or resell later. They are the only off-the-rack hat I trust in bad weather.
I wish you great luck.

Heeeeyyyyy! Penman post 'em up thread!!!

That's a good thread, I'll have you know!

You can go the close enough route and buy 2-3 hats before you get to the coveted goal...fine, soft felt that only gets better with age, the best of materials & the best most SA ribbon out there, or simply...go there!

The Henry costs around $300, possibly $250 without the box, and what you will get is the best factory hat on the market, 80/20 rabbit to beaver blend felt, SA ribbon and bow work.

Fedora is currently making a $300 Raiders custom rabbit hat that will be delivered to your door in no later than 6 weeks.

Penman makes a custom, pure rabbit Indy for $275, beaver for $375.

If you want A hat, they're out there...but if you are looking for a GREAT hat that approaches the real deal, and candidly, is now made better than the real deal Raiders, I'd go with one of these above. Why buy multiple copies with your hard, earned money when it is easier and better to simply do it right the first time...?

I'm going to have to echo everything Chewbacca Jones said. Everything he said is great advice.

My own experience:
My first hat was an Akubra Fed IV and it really was the perfect starter hat. Once you get your hands on it and put it through its paces, you get a good feel and better understanding of what goes into being a "hat wearer," and from there you can make a more informed decision as to which direction of "upgrade-itis" you'd want to take.

Be warned, this hobby is addicting and once you get one hat, you will inevitably get more... (I think I'm up to 7 with 3 more on the way?) lol.

If you want to beat your hat up like that, then go with the Penman. I have four and two of them are used as dress hats, the others are beat up. My Raiders hat has been beat up quite a bit and looks better than the day I got it. If you are concerned with 85f degree weather, in Miami, it routinely reaches the upper 90s and with like humidity. I wear my hats year round, rabbit or beaver. The Penman is miles above the other hats you listed. Only one choice, go with the Penman.

Dave

I do agree with most that was said here, but with a little addition: The Henry is a tough hat. I've been, well, abusing it (wearing it in all weather types, sweating profusely while doing so, sitting on it in roller-coasters, wadding it into a ball, wearing it in caves etc.etc.) for as long as I had it back from getting it resized (yes, it was my first fedora and I made a mistake). This boils down to some serious abuse during a one-year period and it's holding up like a champ.

Just wanted to ad this, as chewie wasn't sure if it could take abuse. It can

Regards, Geert

Swiftfoot wrote: Let me preface this with: I have never been what you would call a hat wearer. I’ve worn the occasional army surplus hat as a sun hat when camping but that’s about it. I have no idea if I will like wearing a hat regularly or if a fedora will look good (heck I’ll settle for little kids not running in terror) on my big ol’noggin. I like the concept / idea of it but not sure if the reality will work for me.

Based on this alone, Patrick, I'm inclined to vote for the Akubra. Yes, the Penman is a fantastic hat, (as is the Henry, by other's accounts) but you said up front that you are not sure about liking a fedora. Because of this, I'd save some money and go with a hat that has proven itself to be a "best bang for the buck" for years. Look at it this way, if you DO find that you enjoy wearing a fedora and that it looks good on you, you will likely go on to purchase another hat down the road anyway. At that point, then you could go the Penman or Henry route. With the Akubra, you'd be starting off with a quality hat that would still be worth wearing and holding on to (as opposed to starting with a Dorfman). I'd hate to see you spend the money on a Penman or Henry only to decide to keep it in the closet. If you come to enjoy a good fedora after getting the Akubra, then you will truly appreciate a finer hat when you get there. Plus, you'd then have two hats—one for casual, one for best!

Well said Bink. I should have stated that clearer in my own post, as opposed to only stating I agreed with that what was said above

Regards, Geert

Of course, there is nothing that says you can have a very practical 'beater' or 'honey do' hat that is great for the summer and is made for that purpose:
http://www.henschelhats.com/breezer.php

...AND find a nice Indy style hat. Keep in mind that any close-enough under $200 is going to be just that...so the color won't be quite right, the ribbon will not be exactly what you have seen on screen, etc., the bow work is usually horrendous, etc. If you are working outside, the head needs to breathe, since most body heat escapes through the top of the head, anyway. Densely felted hats will not provide that.

Since you already have a TN jacket, I wouldn't waste my time with 'close enoughs'.

But that misses the point, TS. He stated from the beginning what his concerns are, as well as an idea of his budget by listing the hats he's looking at. He's done his homework already. The crux appears to be that he doesn't know if he'll like wearing a fedora, period, not whether he should get the most SA hat out there just yet.

I’m not, at this time, considering an AB as I don’t want to invest that time or money into something that may only come out when I’m in full gear. Now IF a fedora works for me... but that is still a ways down the road.

He already wears his jacket on a daily basis, but that doesn't mean he'll do the same with a hat, regardless of the maker. My vote in this case is still for the Akubra.

Why don't you let the author decide what he wants to do?

..could have chosen any jacket, yet he went with a TN, the high end jacket. If I had time for only ONE Indy hat, it would not be a close enough. You may pay a little more, but the commitment to excellence and highest quality are what these guys (John & Steve) have always striven for, AND the quality materials and workmanship is the BEST there is.

I've had most all the current offerings, yet the two that I will hold on to from now on is the AB Henry and the custom job. Those two are keepers.

Well, he asked us

Regards, Geert

I'd say go with the Penman for a couple of reasons. In hindsight, I wished I had from the get go for a couple of reasons.

1. Fit: I went with a Keppler the 1st go around. My big complaint was that it didn't quite fit and. I was having to fiddle with all types of material to put in the sweat to get it to fit. I could have put that $175 or so to better use with a custom. And with your hat size, I think you will be happier with a custom.

2. Durability: The beauty about John's & Steve's hats are that they are truly "built to last". And if you need to have it cleaned up or repaired, those guys will do it for you and have it looking better than ever as they are always striving to improve their product.

3. Customer service: With a custom, its exactly that. John & Steve will make your hat any way you want and won't stop until you are 100% satisfied. This is from personal experience . And if your looking for a "CS vibe", which I have done a couple of times, Steve made the hats for CS and John has just updated his block to look more screen accurate than ever.

Hope this helps you make your decision.

Matt

Swiftfoot wrote:OK folks, it's time for my first fedora!
Hats I’m considering:
Todd’s Uptowner / Downtowner
Akubra Federation IV
Henry
Penman custom – this would be the upgrade-itis option (Dang Penman's post'em up thread)

i have both the up and downtowner hats from todds. and for the price you get a great hat in either hat you choose, the downtowner is a bit stiffer than the uptowner. i love both hats and if you look at the threads for both hats you will see great photos of each of the hats and i'm sure todds will have your size and the shipping is about seven days , where some of the others may take awhile .

Everyone has been So focused on what hat he should buy but no one answered his question about his size. 63cm is a large size and should play a factor in making his choice.

there aren't going to be to many custom hatters with blocks to make this size. I have only made one to date and I have made a lot of hats these past two years. Not as many as the machine known as Delk but I have already passed some well known hatters. I have been putting the time in. I had to useca old hatters trick to pull it off without buying that size block.

Ok now onto the question. I never liked how everyone calls the akubra the best bang for the buck. It's the best bang for the buck under $200.00. I know what hats are the best bang for the buck It's a very good hat and priced very well. I think it's a good starter hat because of what you get and the great price. You make an small investment and get a good hat that can stay in your stable even when you move up to the high end stuff.

I think it's a good idea to look on how much money you think you would like to invest and how much you really have in the long run.


If you just want to spend under $200.00 to try out hats and think if you do get into hats you don't mind spending more money to move up the the ladderv( there's the firefighter again). Then get the akubra. If you how limited amount of dollars then save up get a high end hat so you only have to buy ounce. In the long run you will have saved money.

Texan Scott wrote:Why don't you let the author decide what he wants to do?

My point exactly.

BendingOak wrote:If you how limited amount of dollars then save up get a high end hat so you only have to buy ounce. In the long run you will have saved money.

OK, John. Be honest. Even YOU haven't been able to "buy once," and you only buy the best!
Unless you know yourself very well, from similar experience, don't tell yourself you can "buy once." Greater men have tried and failed. Swiftfoot already sounds like he's pondering the next hat. All hope is lost!

I didn't want to speak to big sizes regarding custom hatters because I just don't know. But I did mention that Akubra sells those big sizes. Also, so that everyone understands my own use of the "most bang for your buck" in this thread - that's based on Swiftfoot's situation as a beginner hat wearer. Basically, it's the perfect serious starter hat - price, quality, dimensions, reputation, and the customer service to back it up.

As Oak says, there are better deals out there at a higher price point. But since price is often a large part of our decision making, it can be hard to walk off that cliff from the start. This is why I HATED not saying "get a Penman" right from go. I know it's the better deal, and a far better hat.

(I know, Oak. You were not plugging yourself, here. I'm just stickin' with the fact of the case. )

binkmeisterRick wrote:But that misses the point, TS. He stated from the beginning what his concerns are, as well as an idea of his budget by listing the hats he's looking at. He's done his homework already. The crux appears to be that he doesn't know if he'll like wearing a fedora, period, not whether he should get the most SA hat out there just yet.

I’m not, at this time, considering an AB as I don’t want to invest that time or money into something that may only come out when I’m in full gear. Now IF a fedora works for me... but that is still a ways down the road.

He already wears his jacket on a daily basis, but that doesn't mean he'll do the same with a hat, regardless of the maker. My vote in this case is still for the Akubra.

This is why getting "the best" doesn't always work for me. Stuff I know will get serious use warrants more effort and expense. I have ABs and Penmans, Magnoli clothing, but a cheap K-Mart gunbelt, "imperfect" clearance Todd holsters, and the like. My first whip was an IAOB because I wasn't sure if I'd use it much. Now I have a Joe Strain. Did I spend more? Oh, yes. But I'm happier knowing that I took it slow and responsible-like, for each piece of gear.

Patrick, if I'd spent the money to buy the best jacket I could buy in a TN, I would want the best hat I could afford, even if I only wore it occasionally, etc. jmo.

DR Ulloa wrote: I wear my hats year round, rabbit or beaver.
Dave

Dave,

Do you take the liner out in the summer?

No I don't. It is a little cooler, but my philosophy is this: If it is going to be hot, humid and I will be sweating more than usual, I want to keep the extra dirtyness off the felt and definately have that liner there. Liners can be replaced easily but cleaning a hat body requires time and money, usually a reblock. The difference in temperature inside that hat is not great enough, for me anyway, to take that liner off and soil the felt. Ask John how my liner looked when he reblocked it on his new (old now, I guess) Raiders block about a year ago. All that gunk that gets on your liner would be on your hat. Now, what I would recommend is cutting the plastic lining on the liner, if it has one. I did this on a Christy's and it was noticebly cooler. On vintage hats, though, keep that plastic in place as it helps preserve those beautiful old hatters crests.

Dave

Thank you all very much for answering my questions and expressing your opinions. Which is exactly what I wanted, opinions from people who are into hats and know way more about the subject than I do.

Chewbacca
A name I recognize from the dark, er, jacket side. Great post to get me started. Very clear and concise and very much appreciated.

Texan Scott
Another Jacket guy I recognize. I hear exactly what you are saying about quality and going through a few hats to get what you want. At one point I thought my jacket was going to be a Wested until hours and hours of research cured me. That alone was worth venturing into the Jacket Forum Battlefield.

Hulkamad
Thanks for the Fed IV vote. Addicting hobby, oh ya, I'm wondering if there is such a thing as a leather jacket I can wear all summer long.

Dr Ulloa
Hot weather info. Thank you! It's not always that hot here but humidity can be a stinker here in SW Ontario.

Gwyddion
Here's another Jacket forum name, you posted in my TN Jacket thread way back last October and mentioned saying good bye to my wallet. You sir, are a Prophet!

Bink
Woo Hoo! I bagged my first moderator.
Very compelling logic for the Fed IV. You are the voice of reason... or my conscious?

Matt
Good points all. Hindsight doesn't help the original person but does help those of us that follow.

Indyclone
Thanks for the Todd's view. right back at you!

Bendingoak
Thank you for the custom hatter sizing info. I always thought my hat size could be an issue but I'm glad there seem to be a work around. I've read enough posts from yourself and other vendors in the Fedora Forum to respect your work and your posts and know you're not just pushing for your own sale.

OK I"m going to ponder all of your excellent info for a bit and may have follow ups once I narrow the field a bit again. I'm still open to any other opinions so don't feel you are late to the party.

Thank you all again for the great info!

Cheers,

Swiftfoot / Patrick

PS. I've dug enough! I've finally made it to Archaeology Student! Finally I get to... what's that?
Get back in the hole!? Whaddya mean Archaeology Student = Gloried Dig Worker ... sigh...

Swiftfoot wrote: Chewbacca
A name I recognize from the dark, er, jacket side. Great post to get me started. Very clear and concise and very much appreciated.

Uh-oh! I'm known and memorable from the jacket section! I'm in trouble now.

Uh-oh! I'm known and memorable from the jacket section! I'm in trouble now.

In a good way

I love all the info over there, great threads, awesome posters that led me to Tony's Jackets... but, man it get nasty over there. Now I'll need to

You wont go wrong with the akubra. You will get your money worth. Just remember what ever hat you get it sitting next to a Nowak. I wouldn't go lower down the ladder than that.

BendingOak wrote:You wont go wrong with the akubra. You will get your money worth. Just remember what ever hat you get it sitting next to a Nowak. I wouldn't go lower down the ladder than that.

Oh you just had to go and say that, didn't you?

Tongue was firmly in cheek as I wrote that.

Thanks Michael. Good tip on shape of face. I recall reading about head shapes, ovals, long ovals etc. but wouldn't have thought about the face. I'm definitely tall and probably closer to round then thin. I'll check with the wife on face shape

Cheers!

I'm not really a prophet, but I do know how addictive buying gear can be

Though that list might be of great help, it is more important what you like to have in a bash, especially if you go the Akubra route and would have to bash it yourself. Don't worry about bashing though: it is easy and Bendingoak has some great tutorials posted here in the fedora section

Regards, Geert

If you're really not sure about how you'll like wearing a fedora there's also the option of buying used from another member. There are great lids that people pass on for a variety of reasons and at very attractive prices. I know that your hat size may be limiting in terms of how likely it is that one will be available at any given time, but I've always preferred to let someone else take the depreciation hit, especially for "maybe" purchases.

LJ

All my hats are custom made and I do not have a standard crown height or brim width. All are custom done according to head size shape.

It bears mentioning that both John and Steve are very concerned with how a hat looks on their customers and won't stop until you look good and you are happy with the way it looks. Both men make sure the hat fits the man, though I don't think the Indy dimensions work well with everyone. Every hat I've received from John was made for me and me alone, completely custom. The one I think captures the Indy look best on me, my second AB. It has a 5 3/4'' crown and 3 1/8'' brim. Steve really nailed it for me. It was blocked on his CS block but looks like a Raiders hat on me, dead on. If you go with John, as I know you aren't looking to invest in an AB right now, you will get the same treatment. If you have any sort of trepidation stepping into the hat world, the Akubra will serve you fine. I sold all my other hats (excluding vintage ones) after getting one of John's and each one I've bought since then has been custom and handmade or vintage. Now, I only buy from Steve or John. It costs a bit more but is worth it in the end. Just my two cents. If you went all out for a Nowak, I think you'll end up kicking yourself for not going for the Penman right away but only you can decide which hat is best for you.

Dave

Long John Tinfoil
I've been watching the Bazaar like a hawk for 4 months now. The closest to my size that came up was a 62cm Fed IV. Every time I see a nice hat go up I end up muttering to myself about people's "tiny heads".

Tundrarider / BendingOak / Dr. Ulloa
You guys make excellent points about the scaling of the hats. This was a concern then it slipped it to the back of my mind but now it's back in the forefront, thank you, thank you, thank you. I can't wear baseball caps. Well, I can, but they sit so high on my head they look ridiculous.

Texan Scott / BendingOak / Dr. Ulloa
I think you've made good points on the quality of custom made vs mass production. The absolute joy I have for my TN jacket I'd like to get in a hat even if it's just a few times a year (worse case scenario).

So after processing everything you fine gentlemen have posted...I think we all see where I'm headed. I'll be going custom made for sizing, scaling and quality and to give myself the best chance to become a "hat" guy. If I don't become a hat guy at least I'll have a piece of art to hang on the wall along with my whip as a static display.

So I'm now down to the following: Rabbit or Beaver?
My understanding is beaver is stiffer(holds a bash better?) and better at naturally handling the elements.
Rabbit does better with certain screen looks for it's floppiness. ( I'm sure there is a better hat term then "floppiness")
Weather? Rain, snow or humidity in the summer? I think Beaver for rain, snow. Rabbit to be cooler or will it just get limper with humidity?
I'm going for a CS look. Is one felt better than the other for it? Again, I think the answer is beaver.
Anything else I need to consider concerning the felt?.

I think what I'm wanting is a CS Beaver felt fedora. But I want to make sure I'm not missing anything hence all the felt questions above.

Thank you all again for the great info you've provided and helping a fedora newbie along. I'm almost there.

Tundrarider, I was referring to the list you posted and wish to make clear that I didn't think it was useless or something at all, on the contrary

Swiftfoot, floppiness might not be the most elegant looking term, but it is the one we use

You are right on most of the felt questions. I wear beaver just as much as rabbit during hot and humid days though, and I can't say it makes a lot of difference to me. Off course it depends greatly on the circumstances when the hat is worn and the preferences and such of the wearer.
Right now it is 77 Fahrenheit here, at 90% humidity, and I am wearing an AB Raiders beaver with no problems. Another person could easily find it way too hot and would grab a rabbit hat. the question is: are you feeling hot easily, or can you stand heat like a champ?

Regards, Geert

As you know, the CS fedora was made of beaver by a couple of obsure guys in the forum, whom I can't think of at the moment....

In effect though, the CS bash and LC bash are similiar in that you have a lower bashed crown and a loose front pinch. Tundy, through Penman, has replicated the LC look quite well, as others have, meaning that it is possible to have that style in the Henry, the 80/20 blended felt, or the custom. With either, you get the look and the beaver felt, though the Henry is a blend and a fine hat as well.

Hi Patrick,
It's the weekend and I'm just now catching up on some long overdue reading here at C.O.W. - point being, before today I'd simply been following up on existing Threads I'd already been posting to (and hadn't been reading any new Threads)
I just wanted you to know that this is the only reason I hadn't posted here before now.


Anyway, I just wanted to say "Wow, I'm really glad - and very flattered - that my 'hats, Hats, HATS!' Thread served as inspiration for you to get your first fedora!"


As I'm sure you've discovered, trying to decide "which one ('first' OR 'at all')?" can be a bit like opening Pandora's Box... but I'm happy to see that you've been given a lot of great advice, opinion and conjecture from some very wise and level-headed Members in the posts that followed you starting this Thread.


Also glad to read that you've almost got it all figured out. I'm curious to find out which way you'll go this first time out of the gate.

A sincere "Best of Luck!" to you with this, Swiftfoot
Mitch

Patrick, I will always recommend beaver. I have a few hats, both rabbit and beaver. The floppiest one I own is my beaver Raiders hat that John made me. Those beaver hats will become very floppy and will move with the wind but it takes time to get it that way. The felt is much more substantial and will weather the elements better than anything else. Rabbit, when pounced out nicely, will look and feel great and it has its advantages. If you are looking to artificially distress the hat, then I'd go with rabbit. But, if you are looking for a real world adventure hat that will probably outlast you, go with the beaver.

Dave

As my American wife said: "Come on, you're Canadian... It has to be beaver!

She is so wise.

Thanks again everyone for your help.

Penman Crystal Skull beaver it is assuming my hatter thinks that style will suit me.

Cheers all!

Just ask John what he thinks about which style would suit you better. The CS dimensions doesn't suit me nearly as well as the Raiders dimensions. But, I think the CS block looks better on me than the Raiders. You might want to go with a style like that, where it is a truly custom Indy hat.

Dave

Patrick, you have chosen wisely.

So be it... Jedi.

Seriously, though - John will do you right.