Archive Jacket Used as Basis for LC and CS

[CM]

Can someone post a photo and confirm what it looked like?

I have heard (I think Michaelson may have said this - apologies if I'm wrong) that some people think the archive jacket was a Cooper job. The archive jacket is meant to be Lee's though, isn't it?

The archive jacket has double stitching in the shoudlers like some Cooper jackets. Did Lee's have this type of stitching too?

[Castor Dioscuri]

When I first saw the title, I thought I saw "Archie Jacket Used as..."



boy must I be tired! lol

Yup, sorry this is a complete unproductive post...

[coronado3]

hmmmmm

[Michaelson]

I have heard (I think Michaelson may have said this - apologies if I'm wrong) that some people think the archive jacket was a Cooper job. The archive jacket is meant to be Lee's though, isn't it?

That story of it being a Cooper has been around for quite a while, so yes, I've posted it many times. The Keppler connection was only made within the past couple years.

Regards! Michaelson

[knibs7]

hmmmmm

???



Kyle

[RCSignals]

the jacket in that photo looks like it is made of CS leather, does not appear to be goat

[CM]

Okay. So this is the jacket... thanks.

RC it looks like a goat jacket I have but no on can actually tell from a photo - that much I have learned from this site and an independent leather craftsperson and jacket maker over here.

So if it is a Cooper, is it a standard Cooper from the rack or one made for a special purpose?


If it is a Keppler is it from his goat or his horse range?

Do the double stitched shoudlers mean anything - a Cooper thing?

[RCSignals]

I'm just saying in the photo it presents like the CS leather. Some goat may be able to be tanned to look like that, sure. Look at photos of CS jackets and see if you agree it looks like the CS cowhide in appearance/colour/hang.

One way to find out about that jacket would be to contact Bernie Pollak

[Holt]

its cowhide

[Baldwyn]

Well...this IS the jacket that Tony copied for CS, so it's not surprising that the CS leather looks similar

I saw some similarity in texture to this shot of TN's vintage goat:

[RCSignals]

Well...this IS the jacket that Tony copied for CS, so it's not surprising that the CS leather looks similar

I saw some similarity in texture to this shot of TN's vintage goat:

Is it the jacket Tony copied? Or are you saying it is the jacket Tony made?

What is so special about the jacket in the photo that it had to be accompanied by a 'guard' to Tony's shop who stayed with it?

I don't see the similarity in Tony's vintage goat other than it is smooth appearing.

[knibs7]

Ya I don't see what's so special about the jacket either

Kyle

[Baldwyn]

This is the jacket Tony copied. I guess it needed a "guard" because it was from the Archives, and Tony hadn't charmed everyone yet to have them trust him.

Tony said to me that when he handed them the first Indy jacket he made, they thought he was just giving them the same jacket back.

I see similar grain, although I know that TN's vintage goat drapes completely different (but the vintage goat drapes different from most goat). Also the discoloration is somewhat similar. I just agree with those who say you can't tell from a photo. I think it's especially hard when the jacket isn't "broken in".

[Texan Scott]

Lee made two jackets and recognizing the same address for both jackets, realized they went to an important place. Obviously this must have been a look-see and if it passed the QC test, he was offered the opportunity to make the LC jackets, which he was.

From the other thread, my scenario was based on new info. that has recently surfaced, that if a Cooper was used as a Hero jacket in Raiders, (a Hero meaning the possibility of a Cooper and a LC/Wested) then either it was kept by the archives, or is in HF's possession...?

The comment was independent of the Last Crusade scenario, though these events are somewhat loosely connected. All of that to say that the LC jacket is a modified Raiders jacket. Lee helped Wested to 'jog the memory' ie get the details right for the LC film jacket, yet the LC film jacket is a modified version of the Raiders jacket (wider collar and storm flap, larger pockets, etc.), and Lee was using movie stills etc., of Raiders to produce his version of the Raiders jacket with the help of FS. As we now know, the Raiders jacket, made by Cooper and Wested/LC is based on the pattern and proto. of the WC mock-up. The WC mock-up was the first functional, non-leather Raiders jacket that actually saw screen time. All versions, etc are derivatives of the same source....the WC mock-up pattern.

[CM]

its cowhide

Yeah? Source?

[CM]

I'm just saying in the photo it presents like the CS leather. Some goat may be able to be tanned to look like that, sure. Look at photos of CS jackets and see if you agree it looks like the CS cowhide in appearance/colour/hang.

One way to find out about that jacket would be to contact Bernie Pollak

Hey RC -any leather c an be tanned treated to look any way - so the resemblence to the CS leather is irrelevant in my opinion. I had a lamb leather jacket in teh 1980's that was a thick as cow and a dead ringer for the CS leather. You need to see leather in person to knwo what it is.

As for Mr Pollack - would he really know? _ has mentioned a company that sold A3's in steerhide as horse and no one including experts knew the difference.

[crismans]

Lee made two jackets and recognizing the same address for both jackets, realized they went to an important place. Obviously this must have been a look-see and if it passed the QC test, he was offered the opportunity to make the LC jackets, which he was.

From the other thread, my scenario was based on new info. that has recently surfaced, that if a Cooper was used as a Hero jacket in Raiders, (a Hero meaning the possibility of a Cooper and a LC/Wested) then either it was kept by the archives, or is in HF's possession...?

The comment was independent of the Last Crusade scenario, though these events are somewhat loosely connected. All of that to say that the LC jacket is a modified Raiders jacket. Lee helped Wested to 'jog the memory' ie get the details right for the LC film jacket, yet the LC film jacket is a modified version of the Raiders jacket (wider collar and storm flap, larger pockets, etc.), and Lee was using movie stills etc., of Raiders to produce his version of the Raiders jacket with the help of FS. As we now know, the Raiders jacket, made by Cooper and Wested/LC is based on the pattern and proto. of the WC mock-up. The WC mock-up was the first functional, non-leather Raiders jacket that actually saw screen time. All versions, etc are derivatives of the same source....the WC mock-up pattern.

A couple of points (that might not even need to be made ). If memory serves, while not concrete, it's the opinion of several members here (including myself) that the Cooper jacket is probably the Imam's house jacket (the timing is right for this to be the case). Several people have went through stills, painstakingly, that show the the Imam's jacket is the same jacket that was used in the Hawaii scenes. George grabbed this jacket in Tunisia, took it to Hawaii for those shots, and, presumably, this jacket now resides at his ranch.

You're correct in that the LC jacket is a modified Raiders jacket. Some modifications have been said to be intentional (the wider pockets, for instance, so that they could hold Henry Sr.'s diary) and some might just be the result of LC/Wested's notorious inability to consistently produce the same jacket. There is a story floating around here on how Lee added the snaps to the storm flap for the jackets. I remember bits and pieces of it, but I'm not 100% sure I've got all the details right. Does anyone else know the story I'm talking about?

[Texan Scott]

[RCSignals]

I'm just saying in the photo it presents like the CS leather. Some goat may be able to be tanned to look like that, sure. Look at photos of CS jackets and see if you agree it looks like the CS cowhide in appearance/colour/hang.

One way to find out about that jacket would be to contact Bernie Pollak

Hey RC -any leather c an be tanned treated to look any way - so the resemblence to the CS leather is irrelevant in my opinion. I had a lamb leather jacket in teh 1980's that was a thick as cow and a dead ringer for the CS leather. You need to see leather in person to knwo what it is.

As for Mr Pollack - would he really know? _ has mentioned a company that sold A3's in steerhide as horse and no one including experts knew the difference.

I disagree. Some people can tell hide from a photo.

I have an A-2 in steerhide. I also have and have had A-2's in Horse hide. Steerhide is not so hard to tell from horsehide. I'd wonder about any 'expert' who couldn't tell the difference.

[CM]

I'm just saying in the photo it presents like the CS leather. Some goat may be able to be tanned to look like that, sure. Look at photos of CS jackets and see if you agree it looks like the CS cowhide in appearance/colour/hang.

One way to find out about that jacket would be to contact Bernie Pollak

Hey RC -any leather c an be tanned treated to look any way - so the resemblence to the CS leather is irrelevant in my opinion. I had a lamb leather jacket in teh 1980's that was a thick as cow and a dead ringer for the CS leather. You need to see leather in person to knwo what it is.

As for Mr Pollack - would he really know? _ has mentioned a company that sold A3's in steerhide as horse and no one including experts knew the difference.

I disagree. Some people can tell hide from a photo.

I have an A-2 in steerhide. I also have and have had A-2's in Horse hide. Steerhide is not so hard to tell from horsehide. I'd wonder about any 'expert' who couldn't tell the difference.

Well RC, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Can we get back to my question? Did Lee's jackets have double stitched shoudlers?

[RCSignals]

...............

Can we get back to my question? Did Lee's jackets have double stitched shoudlers?

I didn't think it did. My impression was that it was like the LC jacket in that regard.

Maybe the jackets he sold to LFL were different from his others? Perhaps Lee will chime in.

[RCSignals]

hmmmmm

what jackets are in the other photos laid out in front of the wearer of that one? They look a bit like similar but different jackets. Hard to tell.

[CM]

Is Lee able to tell us this jacket is his and what hide it is?

And if it isn't, Michaelson, can you tell us the basis of the Cooper version of the archive jacket?

The jacket also appears to have wear - why if it was bought new?

[RCSignals]

Does this jacket have wear or is it the leather it is made from? As I've said it presents like the CS leather which has a used/worn look. The jacket in the photo does not show the typical arm/sleeve wrinkling and wear of a worn jacket, it looks more as newly made.

I don't think any one here has an answer to the question.
Bernie Pollak may be able to tell if that is indeed the jacket he wanted copied, whether it came from the archive or not. That would be helpful even if he did not know the original manufacturer of it. Although would the jackets Lee sold not have the labels in them if they were sourced directly and not specifically made for use in a movie?
If it isn't the jacket he wanted duplicated he may be able to say just what it is, whether or not it is one of the jackets submitted by one of the manufacturers vying for the job. Perhaps someone has contact with him, if he isn't too busy to be bothered with such an inquiry

[Michaelson]

Is Lee able to tell us this jacket is his and what hide it is?

And if it isn't, Michaelson, can you tell us the basis of the Cooper version of the archive jacket?

The jacket also appears to have wear - why if it was bought new?

Not sure I understand the question. Basis? I've posted what I've been told by various sources and contacts over the years, just like everyone else, so there's nothing I can really add to the muddied mess than is already out there.

Let's face it, it's all theory, conjecture, and word of mouth, and nothing will change this. We've had folks who have HANDLED some of these items over the years that haven't been believed, or the debate just continues after their observations were posted, so though always an interesting discussion, there's nothing I can add but what's already posted, or already housed in the archives.

Regards! Michaelson

[CM]

Is Lee able to tell us this jacket is his and what hide it is?

And if it isn't, Michaelson, can you tell us the basis of the Cooper version of the archive jacket?

The jacket also appears to have wear - why if it was bought new?

Not sure I understand the question. Basis? I've posted what I've been told by various sources and contacts over the years, just like everyone else, so there's nothing I can really add to the muddied mess than is already out there.

Let's face it, it's all theory, conjecture, and word of mouth, and nothing will change this. We've had folks who have HANDLED some of these items over the years that haven't been believed, or the debate just continues after their observations were posted, so though always an interesting discussion, there's nothing I can add but what's already posted, or already housed in the archives.

Regards! Michaelson

What I meant was for those who say it's a Cooper, is there a narrative to explain it? Surely people didn't just go "it's a Cooper" without a backstory to explain it being there? Just about everything on this site has a story behind it, like teh Lee Keppler version fo the archive jacket. Like how TN got the screen used jacket. Like how Peter got the Noel Howard jacket, etc.

[coronado3]

So, if I had bought one of Adventure outfitter jackets from the ad in SoF in around '86, it would have been the exact pattern as this one - ie. short collar stand, snaps, etc?
...And nobody around here ordered one back in the day and still has one of these AO jackets that we could photograph?????

[Michaelson]

The backstory discussion goes clear back to the days of Indyfan.com, and came back to surface when _ wrote of how Neil Cooper was tagged by Speilberg to create the hero jacket before the first shot was made for Raiders. Reports later came that there were several backup jackets made by Cooper as well. Were they used? Who knows? Anytime anyone tried to explore that path of research, the faithful of other jacket makers lit torches and grabbed pitchforks and chased the individual out of the village.

We had reports from the warehouse eyewitnesses at the time, and scenes seen in the Skywalker warehouse 'walk around' video shot back in the middle 90's, there are racks of Indy jackets hanging there and boxes full of hats stored in the warehouse, all mixed together. The Keppler FS is there as well.

Claims have been made all these years it was one jacket and then another that was pulled from the rack that the LC and CS jacket was created. Until someone can actually lay their hands ON that one jacket, all anyone can do is continue to observe and read/listen to the discussions and draw their own conclusion. It won't be right OR wrong. It's all subjective, but it IS known that all three versons in multiples of the jacket (with the exception of the one Keppler) are hanging at Skywalker, and that one was chosen by Spielberg and Ford when they chose a jacket for LC and CS, and rumor has it that it was the same jacket both times. Was it? That's the rumor/story.

Was it a Cooper? There is one one group that states categorically it is, and yet another thread states it's Lee's FS jacket. Maybe it was....but (and this is STRICTLY my observation at the moment) I find it extremely interesting that of all the multiple jackets hanging on those racks in that entire warehouse, the one they pull out not once, but twice, was the very same jacket, and was the ONLY example of that maker in the entire warehouse. It was also based on the fit, and NOT the appearance, so it didn't stand out from the rest.

Could it happen? Sure. Did it happen? Maybe....and maybe not.

Like I said, it's all subjective, and all fuel for the debate.

Regards! Michaelson

[Texan Scott]

30 years +/- is a long time. Best to simply state what we know to be the truth about the history, then add to the information as other issues exit the fog.

[Michaelson]

True, but I've learned after all the years I've been involved in this hobby, the only people who KNOW for sure about things are those directly connected with LFL, and those makers of the gear we have here like Steve and Marc (CS hats), and the late Tony Nowak (CS jackets). So, our history is as 'WE' see it, but it's a slippery slope, as things I KNEW to be 'truth' back in the middle 90's have been pretty much blown apart over the past few years.

Everything else is based on observation and opinion. In many cases over the years, those who DO know and HAVE hard core proof have just sat back and watched us spin theories. It's a hobby. Why kill the debate or discussion by giving up the absolute proof of anything?

You're essentially killed the goose that laid the golden egg. So, they just sit back and watch, as much of the updates and changes we've seen made TO our gear has come directly from these types of discussions....

Regards! Michaelson

[Texan Scott]

I see the 'sport' in it, the 'hobby' in essence, i really do; but if you see a man spinning his wheels in the mud, would you normally just sit back and watch him spin his wheels and get deeper and deeper in the mud (the observation and opinion side), only to get covered up by it? Or would you simply throw him a chain (or a snake in this case) and pull him out. I potentially see the fun it in, but I also see that the other side is to some degree sadistic, with the back and forth posturing, flame wars, vendor camps, etc., that have sprang up as well.

[Michaelson]

Tex, folks have been doing that in this hobby since it began. So, the answer to the first question is 'yes', and 'maybe' to the second. I've seen it time and time again, but not necessarily for the reasons you THINK it's happening.

Sometimes help IS offered, and ignored, and using your example, that individual buries their vehicle up to the roofline when there was someone standing by the sideline WITH the hook and chain.....but the driver of the vehicle keeps saying to themselves and anyone who can hear them "there's no one standing there...and they do NOT have a way to help me....."

More often than not, the legalities of some information disimination keeps them from saying anything due to contractual binding agreements.....the infamous 'NDA'.

Regards! Michaelson

[Texan Scott]

...reminds me of a joke.

...the guy stranded on his roof top from a flood...

[Michaelson]

LOL!!! I had the exact same joke in mind when I replied!

Regards! Michaelson

[Indydawg]

Thinking about all the iterations and transmutations this jacket "seems" to have undergone over the years....I get the image of this one "standard" jacket in the middle of a circle on a page (ok...this is the writing teacher coming out) with all these other little offshoot circles around it (the "spider" brainstorm, ya know?) and the ONE jacket in the middle is the "mother" of all the others...with all of their varying strap configurations, back lengths, yoke sizes, shoulder seams, etc.

If you take what _ has proven with documentation, that Cooper WAS the one picked by Spielberg to make THE jacket for THE first movie....then any way you cut it...ALL other jackets are, in a sense, Cooper jackets...because even if they weren't made by Neil...those other folks were using patterns he'd already created to offer their own interpretation of the original.

Shout it down....burn me for a witch....but I think it's pretty safe to say that if it weren't for the original Cooper jacket, in a real sense, none of the other jackets would be here in the configurations we all know them.

Just my .02 on a muggy Thursday FAR too hot to wear ANY jacket!


Later, y'all!
Indydawg

[Texan Scott]

Just for discussions sake, let me interject something here in all fairness...it's my understanding that Cooper and Leather Con. were working independently of each other, and that these guys were basing their work on a jacket, mock-up, however frajile it was, from one already produced by WC? The A-2 likenesses from Wilson's couldn't be used, because the gun and whip got hung up on the normal hem of the jackets, so WC modified the design by making action pleats and straps, etc., no? So they borrowed the overall design of the A-2, pocket and pocket flap config, storm flap, etc., from regular A-2 jackets as we know them, then altered a standard design A-2 to include the action back and straps, no? I wouldn't say Cooper was the innovator as such, he just followed suit with what they wanted and had invisioned...? But based on current info., the Cooper was produced first then the LC/Wested, several days later into filming...? We skip some days to the third order, and then we have the three jackets for the stuntmen.

In this process, my question has been...did Cooper produce just one jacket or a few, for Raiders, and what happened to the sub-standard jackets of the second order?

[Indydawg]

Archives, maybe?

[RCSignals]

The A-2 likenesses from Wilson's couldn't be used, because the gun and whip got hung up on the normal hem of the jackets, so WC modified the design by making action pleats and straps, etc., no?

I'm not sure the WC mock up didn't come first.

Nadoolman has been criticised, but if you read her interviews she is quite consistent when talking about the jacket and timeline.

[CM]

Claims have been made all these years it was one jacket and then another that was pulled from the rack that the LC and CS jacket was created. Until someone can actually lay their hands ON that one jacket, all anyone can do is continue to observe and read/listen to the discussions and draw their own conclusion. It won't be right OR wrong. It's all subjective, but it IS known that all three versons in multiples of the jacket (with the exception of the one Keppler) are hanging at Skywalker, and that one was chosen by Spielberg and Ford when they chose a jacket for LC and CS, and rumor has it that it was the same jacket both times. Was it? That's the rumor/story.

.Regards! Michaelson

Wow. Thanks Michaelson. That's what I meant. So in your view, is the jacket in the photo above the famous archive jacket (which led to the LC) or is it just one of the archive jackets? And is Lee able to identify this jacket as his?

I guess that would answer some questions - for me anyway.

So am I to undertand that for those who think the Cooper is the key archive jacket - it was made at the time of Raiders?

[RCSignals]

Did Lee's jackets have the zipper pull on the left side?

i still think Bernie Pollak could shed some light on the jacket in the photo, if someone here knows how to contact him.

[knibs7]

30 years +/- is a long time. Best to simply state what we know to be the truth about the history, then add to the information as other issues exit the fog.

It's not the years, it's the mileage

Kyle

[Indydawg]

I'm not sure the WC mock up didn't come first.

Nadoolman has been criticised, but if you read her interviews she is quite consistent when talking about the jacket and timeline.

Well....I think it's a given that the WC mock up came first....otherwise, Cooper would have had nothing from which to construct his leather version

As to Nadoolman...from what I've read, from what I've gathered through conversation with people who KNOW (and are not just speculating), she has not just been "criticised." Her credibility has been shot all to pieces. Anything she says, or has said in the past, is tainted with the skepticism that should accompany the narrative of anyone with an axe to grind....consistent mis-statements and partial truths are still what anyone has to call them...lies.

The FACT is that Cooper was given the goose that lays the golden eggs. His design was chosen and given the most screen time as the "Hero" jacket, as it's come to be called. After that-it's all conjecture and pandering to say that "Joe Blo" made the jacket that appears in this many scenes, therefore THAT jacket is more "screen accurate," and so forth and so on....it's chasing a mirage.

Sure...the WC designed mock-up actually came first....but, Cooper made the jacket that got the blessing. All other jackets, therefore, could be considered copies of that original jacket.

At least, from what I've read, been told, and can logically deduce to making sense, that seems to be the most reliable scenario.

Besides....doesn't it just have a ring of something solid, real, and true? Doesn't it make more sense; seem more likely to be the way things actually happen in real life?

In my experience, the simplest explanations are usually the right ones. It's not usually as complicated and serpentine as we try to make it.

But....what do I know? I'm just a country boy trying to make his way in the world

Later!
Indydawg

EDIT: Oh...and let me be perfectly clear that I do not, in any way, feel like the Cooper jacket being the "mother of all jackets" in ANY way takes away from ANY other jacket in its essence. At that point, any jacket being "better" than any other comes down to quality of construction and wearability...nothing more, nothing less.

They are ALL symbols of that very American spirit of "rugged individualism" from which our hero, Indiana Jones, was born. In a very real way, then....simply wearing the jacket at all is tapping in to that symbolic adventurous spirit that we all have to admit overcomes us when we slip our arms into those sleeves and pull that collar up around our necks.

Just typing these words as I gaze out my window at the forest outside makes me want to do exactly what our Dr. Jones does in LC, leave my squabbling students outside my office door and slip out the window looking for adventure....man wasn't made for a box.

[Indydawg]

Sarge wanted me to post this after he read through this thread....I told him I would.

Well said ... That is the bottom line.
Regards,
Sgt. Hack
PS Please post.

Done, Sarge!
High Regards!
Indydawg

[Texan Scott]

Sure...the WC designed mock-up actually came first....but, Cooper made the jacket that got the blessing. All other jackets, therefore, could be considered copies of that original jacket.

EDIT: Oh...and let me be perfectly clear that I do not, in any way, feel like the Cooper jacket being the "mother of all jackets" in ANY way takes away from ANY other jacket in its essence.

Contradictory. The WC was the 'mother' or the 'daddy' of all jackets, whichever you prefer. If the WC was the first iteration, then the Cooper & LC/Wested were both the second iteration, because they were both working independent of each other, from the working copy. No evidence to say that once Cooper finished his jacket, he gave it to LC/Wested so he could copy it. Subsequently, all jackets of the IJ series are copies and derivatives of the WC. Some faithful, some not always so...seems at though it goes back to the lineage.

Let's be careful to guard what things spin off from such painstaking research, etc. We finally obtain some measure of truth, only to in essence revert back to the spin doctrine.

[Indydawg]

Well, I think that's splitting hairs, personally....but conceptually, you're right TS.

The WC cloth mock-up, from some particular set of patterns made up at WC, I would assume, was the standard by which Cooper made the leather version which got Spielberg's nod for the first film....

But...really, now...was it Indy's jacket until it was made in leather and approved?

This isn't about "spin doctrine," or any kind of takeoff on existing research. It's just fact.

Can't get much plainer than that, can it?

Regards.
Indydawg

[Texan Scott]

'Indy's jacket' was also used in the Hovitos chase scene because it held fuller's earth better, though it was apparently cloth. Not so much splitting hairs as it has been 30 years and there is a necessity to get down to the truth. Some have researched it for 30 years only to come away empty or hit a road block. They deserve as much, a pure attempt at boiling these mysteries down. There are some things we can never know, or may never know, but maybe we can make our best run at it.

[Indydawg]

'Indy's jacket' was also used in the Hovitos chase scene because it held fuller's earth better, though it was apparently cloth.

Point conceded!


But...wasn't the original topic about the pedigree of the archive jacket? I don't think we're talking about the WC mock-up, are we? I thought we were talking about the source of the jacket in the archives....

Indydawg

[RCSignals]

I'm not sure the WC mock up didn't come first.

Nadoolman has been criticised, but if you read her interviews she is quite consistent when talking about the jacket and timeline.

Well....I think it's a given that the WC mock up came first....otherwise, Cooper would have had nothing from which to construct his leather version

....

My post was is being quoted out of context of the post it was a reply to. Obviously the cloth mock up came before the 'Cooper' jacket which copied it for Raiders.
My point was that the cloth mock up existed even before the 'Wilson's' jacket.

as for Nadoolman, not everything she says is inconsistent. She is consistent in her story of the jacket, and it does not dispell Cooper making one.

Why are we discussing Cooper and the cloth mock up jacket in this thread? Because it has been suggested that the 'archive' jacket used as the basis for the Crystal Skulls jacket may have been a Cooper. It may well have been, but some people are thinking that would be the jacket Cooper made for the Raiders movie, when it may well be another jacket made by Cooper altogether. A prototype for Temple of Doom, a prototype for Last Crusade...there are a few possibilities.
It isn't the same as the jacket in Raiders.

On the other hand it may be the jacket Lee Keppler sold, although there are details of it that are or may indicate it is not.
I keep saying, since the photo is attributed to Bernie Pollak, he should be able to shed light on what exactly is in the photo. Even if he doesn't know the original maker of the jacket he at least should be able to indicate if it is the jacket he wanted copied, or if it is one of the jackets submitted to him, or another.

[crismans]

Someone please clarify this for me. I have had in my mind that the addition of the double seams on the shoulder was an addition of Tony's to make it more durable. One of the differences between the LC and the CS jackets usually mentioned is the addition of this double seam. Yet, in the picture being identified as the archive jacket, we see a double seam on the shoulder. Is it the case then, that this double seam was always there and the maker of the LC jacket (purportedly Wested) ignored this in their recreation and Tony included it?

[RCSignals]

.

Contradictory. The WC was the 'mother' or the 'daddy' of all jackets, whichever you prefer. If the WC was the first iteration, then the Cooper & LC/Wested were both the second iteration, because they were both working independent of each other, from the working copy. No evidence to say that once Cooper finished his jacket, he gave it to LC/Wested so he could copy it. Subsequently, all jackets of the IJ series are copies and derivatives of the WC. Some faithful, some not always so...seems at though it goes back to the lineage.

Let's be careful to guard what things spin off from such painstaking research, etc. We finally obtain some measure of truth, only to in essence revert back to the spin doctrine.

Yes lets be careful

There is no hard evidence that people worked independently from each other to produce a jacket.
There is no hard evidence that the Cooper jacket, (we also don't know that there was only one) was not given to another maker to produce a copy.
In fact given the visual evidence there is more indication that the jackets either came from one maker and more than likely if two makers were involved they worked from the same set of patterns. Note I say same set of patterns not independently produced a copy of an existing jacket.