Club Obi Wan

I thought it was time to take this to COW and see what many expert opinions thought...

The more I crack my whips and the more I try, my technique changes. That's not to say my technique is sloppy, so completely remove that idea from your head. Recently I received a 4'6" bullwhip and it's very well balanced. I am one happy camper and enjoy using it. I recently picked up another whip I have (which I love/hate) which is 6'. What was once noticeable, is extremely noticeable now. It was made by a decent whip maker but you can tell it's off balance.

I've attempted to change the balance somewhat to at least make it more tolerable.

So here's my question...what do you do to balance a whip and make it proportioned? I know a lot of our wonderful whip makers and whip artists will have good answers.

Let's use a 8 foot and 6 foot Indiana Jones whip for an example. What type of fall would you use for both and how long would you personally make the fall? For the cracker, how long would you make the cracker? How much fluff (inches) and how much of the braided portion (inches)? Would you make it light weight or with a bit of a bulk?

Now I know that it won't drastically change the whips bucking motion, but it could still help somewhat. These whips were never loaded with dressing which can cause the whip to buck. This is also assuming we aren't looking for a quiet popper like some people use to not disturb others. We are looking for maximum balance and efficiency.

Whip dude,

let me start by saying that the following comments are only my personal thoughts and are by no means meant to be taken as the only way to do things.

There are actually two main points in the feel of a whip, one is balance yes, but the other is the shape of the thong, or the rate of taper if you prefer, and this in my mind is a very important point which is too often forgotten.

Balance is to a greater or lesser degree a matter of preference. I personally like my bullwhips to be balanced as close to the ring knot as possible, while other folks like to feel the weight in the thong a bit more. But all things being equal, balance is meant to compensate the weight of the thong with the weight of the handle. The purpose behind this is to have the handle generate enough inertia so as to eliminate (+/-) the pull of the thong as it cracks. This is often achieved by using a large nail or spike as the base for the handle and if further added to by wrapping a strip of lead sheathing or lead tape, around the base of the handle. This is then reinforced with tacks and some sort of strong binding, such as artificial sinew, and then covered with a braided turk's head of some sort. How much lead is put into the butt end of the whip is up to the whipmaker and the client's tastes.

As for the shape or rate of taper, this means how fast does the thong of the whip taper down from the handle to the point. This may seem like a linear taper, and in the hands of a master whipmaker, it feels like it. But it rarely is. A well-made whip will almost crack itself and indeed would if it only could send itself through the air, which is where you come in. A good whip needs only minimal effort on your part to crack nice and loud, and this is due to how the whip is built. Too much weight down the front of the whip and it will feel like trying to crack a motorcycle chain. On the other hand, too little weight and it will require a lot of muscle on your part to have enough energy and speed built up to crack. The shape of a whip and how it feels is a whipmaker's trademark, and no two whipmakers make their whips the exact same way, which is why people collect a wide variety of whips (they are also beautiful art pieces).

The same can be said of the fall. Some people like a very heavy fall, others a light one. I tend to go for something in between, with the accent placed and the rounding and shape of the fall as well as a fine point. A quick guestimate of how to choose the right fall for a given whip is to measure the tip of the thong just before the fall hitch, turn the thong 1/4 of the way and measure it again. Take those two numbers and add them and then divide it by two, then do the same with the thick end of the fall; measure its width and then its thickness, add them and divide that by 2 and if the result is equal or a bit under what the number for the thong was, then it's probably a safe bet that this fall will fit well with this whip. When in doubt, I tend to go for a slightly smaller fall then the thong, this way the energy of the thong is not slowed down by added weight in the fall at that point.

As for length of fall, that too is up for debate, but I like a long fall; a good 30"-33" is standard for me. The best falls end with a tip that is barely larger than the cracker I put on it. But this doesn't always happen nor is it necessary for a fall to perform well. The important thing with whips is everything must always taper, stick to this and you'll be fine.

Now for the crackers, I like a moderately long cracker of about 5 1/2" of twisted cracker and about 3 1/2" or fluff. That's just me and it isn't set in stone.

You'll find that all these points are variables that all combine to give a whip a unique feel. How you combine these will affect how the whip feels and behaves. Try out different things and see what you like best.
Good luck,

Franco

Franco, thanks for your information as it will all be duly noted.

I do understand the importance of taper in the thong. It's not something I brought up because I was specifically looking for something I can change to better the overall balance of this particular whip. The taper on this particular whip is okay, but it could be better. The whip was bought when I was starting out. The more years that passed, I could spot out the issues. Some even plaiting along the handle, slightly off balance, etc. It's served me well but now I'm really feeling that bucking feeling.

Well you can take a pig and dress it in a ball gown, but it's still a pig.

I do understand what you are saying. But I thought it would still help some to figure out my best options for fall and cracker. At some point in time I see myself selling this whip to a new whip enthusiast to learn on. I've said this before but have some reasons to wait it out.

Hey WhipDude, Franco's advice is dead on! I especially enjoy the way he explains things, neither too many words, nor too little.

I have some observations though:

- You must bear in mind that the way David designed his whips, the last 3ft of the thong are always the same. That is, at least for the 8-12ft range (I'm not really sure if the change in taper would be absolutely necessary for the 6-footer, and have not seen one of his), the taper in those last 3ft is always the same. So theoretically, the fall could be the same for those 3 models. The same could be said about the cracker.

- In theory too, if the whip's taper changes, that is, from one model to another, falls should be different, suited for each taper. A whip with a long thin point would have a shorter fall, than a whip with a thicker point.

- I myself differ here with Franco, and as he said, "the following comments are only my personal thoughts and are by no means meant to be taken as the only way to do things." I prefer a fall around 2ft (for an 8 foot Indy style bull), perhaps a tad longer, and a cracker around 6in + a 2 1/4 - 2 1/2". That prevents the whip from tangling. I'm pretty sure both ways work really great, but as in most crafts, it comes down to personal preferences, and use. So that wouldn't exempt you from trying out what works best for you.

One thing you didn't mention was whether the whip we're talking about is "nose-heavy" or "butt-heavy". That would certainly change some of our comments.

All the best,

Aldo.

I'd agree Aldo, Franco is all business from what I can tell.

On your first point, this isn't a David Morgan bullwhip. This was by another maker and I won't name that maker. This is a 6 foot whip.

Correct on your second point. This something I didn't simply state. When I began this thread, I only asked my questions. I figured I didn't need to go into great depth for people, such as yourself, would know this already. But it's my mistake to assume you'd know what I know.

Thanks for sharing your personal thoughts on the fall and popper. I know it's bit of a preference, but hey, it's help.

Thanks again.

WhipDude wrote:

On your first point, this isn't a David Morgan bullwhip. This was by another maker and I won't name that maker. This is a 6 foot whip.

I myself didn't specify where my comment on David came from. When I mentioned David in my post what I really meant was: "If you are talking about Indy bullwhips, I assume the maker is aware of the proportions Morgan uses in his whips, and tries to reproduce them as close as possible". So I thought I knew what you knew.

ATB,

Aldo.

That makes more sense.

At the risk of drawing much ire from D.M. fans, I would like to add my two cents....not about the fall and cracker, but dealing with lead loading.
*Disclaimer*-This is just my opinion based on personal experiences.
I feel that wrapping lead around the butt knot of a whip serves no purpose. A whip whose thong is heavy near the handle (as with a shotbag) distributes the weight down into the thong and thereby adds the extra speed as the thong uncurls during a crack. This speed is increased as it moves down the whip due to the taper and the fact that the thong is becoming lighter and more flexible near the end. I have cracked whips of all types with all types of cores, rolled leather, greenhide, rawhide, shotbags, etc. I have also had the opportunity to work with whips with lead loaded handles and those without. I simply don't see the need for this added weight at the end. I'm not saying that it is detrimental, just that it doesn't improve the whip in any way as far as I can see. Your mileage may vary

Chris

The lead loading in the back of a whip makes the throw so much easier! All that weight in the butt gives you a very precise aim with a feel like no other whip. Putting the weight higher in the whip makes it less of a throw and more of a point. Different strokes I guess but I'm not sold on the weight above the handle yet, no matter how it's added. I'd have to see some more evidence on the acceleration of the loop as well, as handle length and how the whip is thrown are IMO more of an issue on how "fast" the whip is.

And then there's the other variable- arm, wrist, and grip strength. These alone are enough to cause a person to prefer a certain style whip.

Chris

early2rise wrote:And then there's the other variable- arm, wrist, and grip strength. These alone are enough to cause a person to prefer a certain style whip.

Chris

So very true.

Aldo.

I spoke with Joe Strain a bit ago about the "top heaviness" of the Indy Jacka... The common complaint is that they are "Monsters, heavy, even painful to handle for very long". While I haven't personally handled one, Joe seemed to think much of the perceived functional "problems" with the design could be alleviated by adding some counterbalancing weight in the butt. The whip wouldn't feel so heavy, and would not require so much muscling to do its job, hence: longer, more comfortable cracking time... Thoughts anyone?

Guys


For me one of the most importants points in whip balance, is the size and density of the thong, after the ring knot.

We have god whips, with perfect proportion and balace, like Joe Strain, and Bernardo Delcarpio whips. And obvious, Morgan and Jacka.



Gaucho

I think the biggest thing with a Jacka is it's NOT a Morgan. Everything I've read is that it's a monster to start but once broken in is a very nice whip. You have to be patient and understand a whip when your using it. Even my Jacka is a year away from being the whip I think it could be. I have to remember this when I use it and keep using it. A lot of what people say are "bad" about something come from not understanding the reasoning behind it, not having handled one or used one, or not taking the time to figure it out.

One of the great things about making bullwhips the way I do is that when I make them I get to crack them before and after I put lead in the handle. You'd be amazed at the difference it makes once I tack that lead into place!

Also read Whips and Whipmaking 2nd ed page 97, David has a ton of great insights there.

Another thing to consider is that a lead loaded handle is not needed or probably desired in every whip because of length. Personally I'd probably never use lead in the handle of anything under 6 feet long...but I couldn't image not having lead in the handle of a 12 foot whip.

At the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference of the bullwhip userr and / or the whip maker how they like their bullwhips to handle...and based on what the majority of whip buyers are asking for over time it would help shape a lot of the characteristics of the whips on the market.

I'd be curious how many requests that other whip makers get for shot loaded bullwhips a year. I get about one per year.

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

pmgilmer wrote:I spoke with Joe Strain a bit ago about the "top heaviness" of the Indy Jacka... The common complaint is that they are "Monsters, heavy, even painful to handle for very long". While I haven't personally handled one, Joe seemed to think much of the perceived functional "problems" with the design could be alleviated by adding some counterbalancing weight in the butt. The whip wouldn't feel so heavy, and would not require so much muscling to do its job, hence: longer, more comfortable cracking time... Thoughts anyone?

That is very true when talking about bullwhips, but it's another story (at least from my limited experience in whipmaking) with stockwhips. When I got back to making whips, I'd load the handles with lots of lead. The subsequent stockwhips had less lead every time, until I decided not to put lead, because they behaved almost exactly the same. Some other whipmaker told me that with stockwhips at least, the deal is in the length of the handle, not too much about loading. I mean, lead is good in them too, but not absolutely necessary. There is barely a difference when you get a loaded / unloaded stockwhip handle, than a bullwhip (of which I have handled with perfect balance, no lead, or too much of it, which is like night and day).

ATB,

Aldo.

Another great COW discussion! My only contribution, slight at best, might frame the weight/balance question in terms of a fulcrum ( that being the user's hand) and its associated lever, the handle and thong. The energy necessary to create movement in the lever is lowest when its total weight is evenly distributed on either side of the fulcrum. So a 50%-50% split, say, a pound on either side of the handle, is a logical point to begin exploring how the whips' "handling" is affected by it's weight distribution, keeping in mind, obviously, the exponential increase in required energy relative to desired speed and power.

In my experience, such as it is, the 50/50 split significantly boosts speed and, although not as dramatically, power for targeting. I also hazard that use fatigue is forestalled with a 50/50, as it was, at least, for me.

As an more radical experiment, I also built a little 5', 3-belly lash with an 80-20 weight split (80% butt, 20% thong) and the little monster is bloody lightening quick and darn powerful - kinda scary actually.

Of course replicating an 80/20 split on a 10 foot, 6-belly bull isn't practical (the butt would have to weigh at least 4 lbs.) and, in any event, many very skilled whipcrackers prefer more weight in the thong and get inhuman performance with 40/60 splits, etc. But I at least wanted to describe a few of my results, even without having a real "preference" yet myself.

Peace, Keith

Most illuminating, Keith. Thanks!!!

Aldo.

Now is there a way to add weight to the handle of a finished bullwhip?

I have on of Todd's whips, which is great for the price, but it doesn't crack as nice as the nylon bullwhips I make. I know part of it is because of the heavier weight of my nylon whips. I would like to somehow add some weight to the handle, if I had some leather I would redo the heal knot with added weight.

The best way to add weight to a whip is pay more for it.

Hi Fuzz,

You can always try adding weight with solder... heavy, inexpensive and precise.

Good luck.

KeepaySF wrote:Hi Fuzz,

You can always try adding weight with solder... heavy, inexpensive and precise.

Good luck.

Good idea, thanks!

I might also try some lead tape, that's what I use to balance adjust weight on my tennis rackets.

-Scott