Club Obi Wan

Hi all,

I thought COW would enjoy a first look at an item we have in our Prop Store company collection.

This is the actual M1 Carbine that Harrison Ford used in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. This weapon was rented to the film production by a Hollywood armory. The rifle is seen in the film when Harrison Ford whips it away from a disguised Russian soldier, and then uses it to threaten Spalko.

Working with one of the on-set armorers, we were able to identify this exact weapon from his set notes, and confirm it as a screen match using the Blu Ray. Note the scratches in the wood on the left side of the weapon.











http://propstore.com/img/products/916/I ... bine_7.JPG

http://propstore.com/img/products/916/I ... bine_8.JPG

http://propstore.com/img/products/916/I ... bine_9.JPG

http://propstore.com/img/products/916/I ... ine_10.JPG

http://propstore.com/img/products/916/I ... ine_11.JPG

http://propstore.com/img/products/916/I ... bine_5.JPG

http://propstore.com/img/products/916/I ... bine_4.jpg

http://propstore.com/img/products/916/I ... bine_1.jpg

Best,
Brandon Alinger
The Prop Store of London
http://www.propstore.com

Looks great, other than the mag... thanks for sharing.

It appears to me that the top picture of Harrison Ford shows a selector switch at the front of the receiver
which would mean his was an M2 carbine. The one in the other pictures shows an M1 carbine. I could be wrong.

Very cool.

After looking at the pictures again, I would say definately different carbines.

Good observation Terry!

During filming, this rifle had an full-auto sear installed, making it an M2 carbine. As this type of firearm is far more difficult to transfer, the M2 sear (which is registered on its own, with its own serial) was removed from the piece.

Every other part of the rifle - the receiver, wood, and barrel - are exactly as used in the film. The wood retains the cutout where the fire-selector would be installed, and the barrel is threaded for a blank adaptor.

The matching marks in the wood are distinct and match up nicely.

Regards
Brandon Alinger
The Prop Store of London

So stipulated..

Very nice! Thanks for sharing! This carbine wouldn't happen to be for sale, would it?

Hi all,

This piece will not be for sale as it is part of the Prop Store Company Collection. Please see here for more of the collection:

http://www.propstore.com/collection.htm

Regards
Brandon

Thanks for thinking of us Brandon!
R/S
Fritz

Brandon knows his props.

Indy also seems to have the M2/M3 round bolt versus the WWII M1 flat bolt pictured. Interesting to see M1 parts on a M2/M3. Most of those were phased out and replaced. Especially the squared off op rod. Nice piece!! Love those carbines.

Sean

IndianaSean wrote:Indy also seems to have the M2/M3 round bolt versus the WWII M1 flat bolt pictured. Interesting to see M1 parts on a M2/M3. Most of those were phased out and replaced. Especially the squared off op rod. Nice piece!! Love those carbines.

Sean

Correct: the bolt has been changed out too. The serial number stamped into the stock indicates the carbine is what we call an 'import', in that the US gave it to a foreign country. Years later, that country finished with carbines and put them up for sale. An importer purchased a lot and sold them here in the US. The country that stamped the stock with the serial number was Israel. The Israeli carbines are well thought-of and generally in excellent condition. A permanent mark is required by the government on imported weapons, and on these carbines it is usually found on the barrel, behind the sight on the under side. The mark consists of the name and address of the importer and is usually as small/light as possible to disfigure the carbine as little as possible, although the 'Blue Sky' company deeply stamped theirs on the side of the barrel - sometimes so deeply struck that it indented the bore. This carbine is pretty much a typical import with a mix of early and late features. Before being released by the government, it was rebuilt during the major rebuild/update program of 1949 and most likely used in or during the Korean conflict. It would have appeared in the time frame of the CS movie exactly as it was portrayed, either as an M2 or M1, except for the stock serial number and the import mark (which would not have been seen in the movie even if that area had been shown - sometimes you really have to look close to see them).

Cool little rifles, but have the loudest 'bang' of any short rifle I've ever fired in my life! The .30 cal. is a real ear splitter!

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:Cool little rifles, but have the loudest 'bang' of any short rifle I've ever fired in my life! The .30 cal. is a real ear splitter!

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson,
Try a spanish FR8. It's a 7.62x51 flying out of a 17.75" barrel!!! It was the trainer when the Spanish started to convert to the CETME. It's a mauser bolt action with a fake gas system. That dog is loud!!!

High Regards,
Sean

Hey Michaelson,

Take that 30 carbine round and put it in a Ruger Blackhawk. The wildest thing I ever shot. Recoil
like a .357 Mag. shock wave peels your eyelids open, feels like you get hit in the face with a pillow and
you can feel the ground in front shake. WILD!!!!!!

Would you mind revealing who the manufacturer of this particular carbine is? The rear sight will obscure it, but if you use a light and look from the side you will be able to read it. It could be a Winchester, or at least the barrel could be. I see no barrel markings. WRA's barrel marks are obscured by the bayonet lug, so that could be the case with this gun. It's probably a mix-master though, so who knows if the barrel is original. I'm curious as to the manufacturer though.

Indiana wrote:Would you mind revealing who the manufacturer of this particular carbine is? The rear sight will obscure it, but if you use a light and look from the side you will be able to read it. It could be a Winchester, or at least the barrel could be. I see no barrel markings. WRA's barrel marks are obscured by the bayonet lug, so that could be the case with this gun. It's probably a mix-master though, so who knows if the barrel is original. I'm curious as to the manufacturer though.

Just curious..why do you think it's a Winchester? My money would be on Inland. They produced the most carbines. Then Winchester. What would be rare is a Rock-Ola. But I would agree with you that this thing is probably a hodge podge of parts.

High Regards,
Sean

IndianaSean wrote:

Indiana wrote:Would you mind revealing who the manufacturer of this particular carbine is? The rear sight will obscure it, but if you use a light and look from the side you will be able to read it. It could be a Winchester, or at least the barrel could be. I see no barrel markings. WRA's barrel marks are obscured by the bayonet lug, so that could be the case with this gun. It's probably a mix-master though, so who knows if the barrel is original. I'm curious as to the manufacturer though.

Just curious..why do you think it's a Winchester? My money would be on Inland. They produced the most carbines. Then Winchester. What would be rare is a Rock-Ola. But I would agree with you that this thing is probably a hodge podge of parts.

High Regards,
Sean

I'm basing that on the lack of barrel markings. WRA markings are almost always obscured by the bayonet lug. Of course it could be a WRA barrel on some other receiver. Highly unlikely it's all original. Plus if it's a Winchester, I don't have to buy another carbine to match Indy's!

It's hard telling what it could be. Unfortunately there is no clear shot of the barrel behind the front sight nor the rear portion of the receiver. I could not locate any stock cartouches either. It appears to be a WW2 stock. You can see where the hacked wood came off that covered the op rod. Very common. Also it does not have the characteristic hump on the lower portion of the stock forearm area to accept the M2/M3 full auto selector and respective parts. Interesting.

Sean

Take a look at these three photos. They clearly show no markings on the barrel and that the stock is an M2. The "hump" on the lower part of the stock wasn't to accept any full auto parts, it simply made the stock stronger to handle the full auto fire. The only changes to the internal cut out was on the side to make room for the selector and other such things. This stock wasn't a cut down high-wood either, it's clearly an M2.

http://www.propstore.com/img/products/9 ... bine_7.JPG

http://www.propstore.com/img/products/9 ... ine_11.JPG

http://www.propstore.com/img/products/9 ... bine_5.JPG

Hm, interesting. This carbine has a push button safety.

Well not to keep beating a dead horse, but I disagree. None of those photos provide a clear shot of the barrel behind the front sight or any angle to observe any markings. Especially if they weren't struck deep enough. As far as the stock..we are debating the same point. Your right in the fact that it was for strength, because material has been removed in the forearm area for the full auto parts. It is in the field manual. They even explain where the wood has been removed to accept the full auto parts during conversion. Which includes converting M1's to M2's. Again, very common. And this photo you can clearly see where they hacked off the high wood. You right with the push button safety.

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz25 ... bine_8.jpg

But after all...its just a movie gun. Shoot they didn't even keep some of the parts. The bolts are completely different. Who is to say its even a real M2 and not some hastily put together clone because some movie advisor says they were using M2's by that time period? The only way for us to know for sure is one of us win the lottery and buy the darn thing to analyze. Then of course..shoot it!!

I'm not trying to create waves Indiana. You are more than entitled to have your opinion. I just don't put much stock in movie guns. To me a movie gun is relative. I mean look how long it took the Indy community to figure out that Indy wasn't using a MkVI in the movies? Anyhow, I'm not trying to step on your toes. We all have the right to disagree. That is what makes us COW'ers great. So many ideas and opinions.

High Regards,
Sean

No waves here, just trying to figure this thing out.

You agree it's an M2 stock though? I think that's pretty obvious. Being an M2 stock, it never could have been a high wood, hence the spot you're seeing is just from general roughness and abuse to the stock--not from being cut down.

Looking at the pictures a 2 is visible where the serial number is. Considering it is pushed all the way to the side of the receiver I believe it would make it a 7 digit serial number, therefore putting it into the 2-million range. Inland, Underwood, and Standard Products all made large numbers of carbines with serial numbers in that range, so I'd say it's safe to assume it is of one of those three makes. Underwood made the vast majority of carbines in the 2-million range, as well, but there's no way to know for sure without more pictures.

Indiana wrote:No waves here, just trying to figure this thing out.

You agree it's an M2 stock though? I think that's pretty obvious. Being an M2 stock, it never could have been a high wood, hence the spot you're seeing is just from general roughness and abuse to the stock--not from being cut down.

Indiana,
That's good. We should work together to figure this out. Now that I'm curious as heck. As far as the stock, I am still unsure. Lets forget the idea of the high wall. The high wall stock was early production. They began manufacturing the stocks without the high wall. The fact that a lot of M1 stocks were converted adds to that possibility. So it is indeed either a legit M2 or a M1 convert. More than likely an M2.

It was also stated that he had to remove the sear. That is unnecessary. It is not restricted. This gets me to thinking that it is not the same gun. Or they took unnecessary precautions. The gun Indy has is clearly an M2 but the one in the photos has all M1 components. Did he swap out the bolt, op rod, trigger guard, mag release, and sear? None of those are considered Class 3 and can be in the gun. What is restricted is the selector, disconnector, selector spring, and disconnector lever. All they had to do was remove these parts. And all of these parts would have to be together in order for the M2 operate in full auto.

The gun is definitely in the 2 million range. It's hard to make out that 2, but it's there. We need more photos!!

Sean

By removing the sear I'm going to assume he meant it was a registered Class III M2 trigger group which would consist of all the full auto parts. My guess is that the prop guys just took an M1 carbine from the prop room and put the trigger group in it. The replaced the flat bolt with a round one to keep the rate of fire under control. Chances are that the prop company just has everything needed to convert an M1 to M2 and when they need to they swap parts out and make it M2 and then once the shoot is over they swap it back to M1 configuration.

BTW, that stock is definitely an M2, just look at the forward end of it!

Hi guys

It's really hard to read the manufacturer under the rear site. It looks like it starts with "UNC" and ends with "OD". Not sure if that makes any sense.

If you'd like to know anything else about it, just let me know and I'll be happy to try and help.

Regards
Brandon

BrandonA18 wrote:Hi guys

It's really hard to read the manufacturer under the rear site. It looks like it starts with "UNC" and ends with "OD". Not sure if that makes any sense.

If you'd like to know anything else about it, just let me know and I'll be happy to try and help.

Regards
Brandon

Hi Brandon,
It would be safe to say your carbine was made by Underwood.


High Regards,
Sean

Yup, she's an Underwood. Good deal, I still don't have to buy another carbine to match Indy's! I've got an Underwood, too!

Are there any markings on the barrel? Perhaps if you loosed the bayonet lug and slide it forward they may be there, if there are none visible.

Call me crazy but didn't Indy use the Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle?

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Yeah, but he shot his eye out:

Well played. Well played indeed.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Point goes to Zee!