Club Obi Wan

Hi all,

Steve suggested I have a go at matching what comes off of my Raiders block to the Hawaii shoot, so as the hat below the collage is currently morphing its way from a Temple / Well of Souls hat to a Tunisian hat (and it's bash is pretty much "stuck"), I thought I'd break out my test body and start from scratch.

All I've done is block the body, pin a band around it, bash it into roughly the right shape, and take the photos. You'll notice I SHOULD have pinned the band tighter, as the bottom right hand side sticks out a bit far. No bearing on assessing the blockshape, though.

Anyway, I think the key to this process is that it triangulates at least 3 points on the hat, plus camera position, focal length, and lens distortion. If things line up, between the original film grab and the test hat overlay, it's correct. Of course, you also need to get the other angles to show it's not just an illusion of a one-off angle. Especially when it's compared to these other shots viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44705&start=0 where the same block is tested using a completely different bash, that breaks at different points on the curvature, thus effecting the radial angles.

I thought I'd put this in a new thread to share what I found in the process. MAN, this bash is shallow! I mean, it's barely there at all. Especially the top. Unlike the other hats, the top measures close to 4 5/8", and the back measures 4". Much taller in real terms that affect the look. That's why it's so square-looking. The Herman-munster-topped blockshape combined with the lack of top bash. And as LLS has mentioned before, very "short" side dents. Anyway, this further confirms my thinking that the "Head German agent" in Tunisia has a hat with the same blockshape. I'm obviously not the first to think that, of course. But this process has just made me think it's just IT to a T, (just with even LESS of a bash) though I'm yet to do the photo comps as I'm working on checking the bash details of the Clipper hat for somebody first.

Looking very, very good! I think that you are really on to something with this block you've developed. And you're right that it does tie in nicely with what LLS has come up with on the specifics of this hat, for example, the shallow side dents.

Thanks Yohimbe for the time and effort! And very, very interesting! The more that I look at your blockshape and your overlays the more it drives home just how important the felt was in achieving the look of the Raiders fedora. The Raiders felt was able to exhibit such character that we all associate with this fedora. You did not see this in the other film hats, and is another thing that separates the Raiders fedora from all the rest.

Your hat matches exactly what we see on the film, yet, it still looks off, when we know it isn't. The difference is the felt. I find it odd that felt matters so much, with this one fedora. But, a regular non gear head would not notice it.

I would love to see you source some of that good Portugal felt, pure rabbit, in the right weight with no stiffener in the crown, but just a hair in the brim. I am sure most here have seen that series of film stills when fighting around the Flying Wing, he gets knocked on his tail and you can see the brim actually move downward and spring back up. Not much stiffener there, at least by this point in the film. MK, used to say, if he could find a hat that had a brim that acted like that, he would buy it. This was eons ago now.

As I said before, this is impressive work you have done. I bet it was a load of fun, and when you got the block right, the feeling was great! Job well done! Fedora

@ Crismans, thanks mate.

@ Fedora. Thanks. With respect though it isn't the felt - this hat body is vintage European felt, and completely without stiffener. I am aware of what you are talking about with certain felts, so to ensure complete accuracy when making the block, I only used vintage felt to test the shape. That way I couldn't get false impressions as a result of the way the felt was reacting.

But what you are seeing here and in the other shots LITERALLY comes down to lighting and camera lenses and angles, and film shutter speed of motion picture film. But 99% of what you mention is really LIGHTING. Ford wasn't sitting in my office with an Ikea desklamp 80cm above him to light the action.

When it comes to the hats I'm selling, of course the Akubras aren't floppy in the same way, but the European-derived ones are. They have "THE LOOK" (and the feel) in spades. Though I'd take a stiffer/sturdier hat like the Akubra - or a beaver felt one - camping for around a fire, etc. I grab my thinner-felted hat every other time because of this. (And frankly often when camping as well.) But it was just a differentiation I thought I'd offer as people do like that quality with the Akubras.

A few other shots that my wife coincidentally transferred off of her iphone today. This is from just after I had blocked this hat and hadn't bashed it "hard".
As soon as I saw the pics I immediately noticed the "Hawaii look" from a few angles. See the shallow top and how different it looks in this light.









And when overlaid with this shot, the outline matches perfectly:

Hey, that last shot you have there of Indy by the river shows what I was talking about in regards to the felt. Notice the way his felt allows the small indents contained within the front creases.(most felt just appears smooth) As the film progresses, this type of felt just gets worse, or better depending upon you view. To me, it looks better. It is able to get that look we see in hanging off the truck and the SOC scenes. The thinner HJ felt I used to get in was sort of like this felt, use in Raiders. But apparently wasn't if they only had a couple hats for Ford to use in that film. The HJ felt today, the stuff I used to get in would not have lasted a day without tapering god awful badly. So apparently the Raiders felt was really good rabbit felt, yet porous and fairly soft too. If you could find that sort of felt, perhaps from Portugal, by working with their specials guy, you would have the ultimade Raiders fedora. Now, from another discussion on another thread here, it was said that fawn was the original color. But, that pic by the river sure looks brown to me!! I think I would stick with brown. Fedora

Ah, ok, I get what you mean now. Wouldn't that be incredibly irritating for the average wearer, though? I mean, to me I'd prefer to have the best of both worlds where the hat is soft yet moldable, and then holds its shape reasonably well without correcting imperfections every 2 minutes. I like fidgeting with the bash as much as the next hat guy, but I'd want my hat to put up at least some sort of struggle!

Re colour, yeah, me too. The more I see it in different lighting conditions, once you take into account the film's film stock and colour grading, it's sable / light sable. Though interestingly, a brown Akubra I have matches the colour almost dead on if you literally compare it next to the TV monitor.

Ah, ok, I get what you mean now. Wouldn't that be incredibly irritating for the average wearer, though? I

Sure, if it was like the rabbit Optimos several of us bought here years ago. That felt was too soft to where a falling leaf would dent it. I don't think the Raiders fedora was actually as soft as those Optimos though. Probably would need like a 110 to 120 gram body instead of a hundred gram. The extra thickness over the Optimo would be soft yet not too soft to hold the creases, well. There is a certain weight/softeness that would match the film hat, it just needs to be made, which Portugal can do. Now, I have seen this type of felt in vintage hats, and the Christy felt is kinda close to what I am talking about, if one could get that in a raw body form so the hat could be made proper and stablized better than the factory that makes it does currently.

But no doubt, your block and some Raiders accurate felt, and you would have all bases covered. Just really thinking out loud what I would do, if I were to do it over. In order to sell hats with others already in that ballgame requires something no one else is doing, IMO. And who would have thought anyone would be saying this, 10 years ago? Back when it was hard to find a straight hat! Boy have times changed! Today the fans have alot of choices, and a new one needs to be real special, IMO. The right felt would certainly do that. Just trying to help out Yohimbe. And IF I were getting into this, this is what I would aim for, as a plan. It's advice, that costs nothing and is worth exactly what you paid for it. But seriously, I do feel this is what is missing so far in the Raiders fedora that folks make and sell. No one is using the right felt, IMO. Fedora

Thanks Steve. I really appreciate your advice.

I agree. What I'm offering at the moment is hats with the Christys-sourced felt, but stabilised on this Raiders block. The only felt I've handled / blocked / etc. that is closer is vintage, thus unobtainable short of the sort of thing we're talking about. If I got enough orders at the $399 price point, I'd seriously look into sourcing them.

Otherwise, for the moment what I'm doing is offering new Christys that I purchase and reblock for far better stability for $280us delivered. (edit - the details of offerings are now here -
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=44764 )

That way people can experience the accuracy and quality of my hats at a really good price for a handmade hat and (hopefully) share their experience with others. Then I'll see where things lead. (I am doing the same thing with Akubras should people want that style of felt instead.)

I wouldn't even try to compete with your efforts with your great beaver hats, and yeah, this whole project started because I was looking for something that couldn't be purchased from anyone. Absolutely, the sort of thing we've got here is an entirely different animal. ...pardon the pun!

I agree the Christy felt is as close as we can get currently. A great choice to use too.

You know, when I look at the Raiders blockshape, I always look to the top radius on the sides, to determine accuracy. This is the area that has to be right, to pull off the look from the front. And yours is dead on, could not get any better, IMO. For a long time, I thought this radius started higher up on the block, but that was a mistake. All one has to do is to look at the opening scene hat, as he walks away and you see the shallow top crease as well as the radius on the top/sides, and that it starts lower rather than higher. That is one of the keys to this blockshape. You got it right. Fedora

Thanks Steve.