Stupid Question but I'll ask it...

[pfcyoung]

I am a bit embarrassed to ask this but here goes...

I have been cracking whips for about two years now and only now do i realize that i am facing a dilemma regarding crackers...

I typically use mason twine which as far as I know is nylon, therefore ideal for cracking. I have wound it into a cracker many times and lasts forever but its very thick, pretty much thicker than the fall and it takes a little more effort to get it to crack. i take the same twine and spin it into 3 crackers and they are lighter and faster and sound like thunder in my hands! Only downside is... they blow out too fast. i have used a different kind of twine that is made of plastic and looks like bailing twine and it works nice and loud too, but it also blows out too fast.

so i guess what i am asking is... what kind of twine can i use that is thin and light, yet durable? I hear that there is polypro twine and kevlar twine and are they any good? And can someone tell me what kind of a store i can get them at? and is it also possible to include a picture of the crackers?

Thanks again!

Dan

[hollywood1340]

I've heard that using something TOO durable can cut right though your fall. I know some use spectra or kevlar. I'm still a fan of nylon upholstery thread. And a good cracker should last for a fair bit if you're not power cracking. But crackers DO wear out, it's what they are designed to do.

[Canuck Digger]

I go back and forth between poly bailing twine (the light stuff, not the heavy duty), and nylon mason line, and I've never had a cracker heavier than a fall... How do you do that?

Franco

[Cracker]

I'll second James' recommendation for the nylon upholstery thread. It can be tied as heavy or light as you like and produces a nice crack like the mason line, but without the problem of tangling you encounter with the mason line. Plus, it is quite durable.

Jim

[thefish]

I'm a big proponent of nylon upholstery thread as well, but I also use white nylon mason line.

I can crank out mason line poppers in nothing flat. (I have mine down to a system that I can get three out of a 3 foot strand of the mason line. Probably the same method PFCYoung describes.) That makes nice, cheap, fast poppers that "Fluff out" pretty quick and make REALLY loud bangs. They tend to knot VERY easily though, and if you're cracking outside, that fluffy nylon will snag VERY easily on sticks and leaf stems and junk on the ground. They also aren't as great for cutting targets, (if you're using the popper and not the fall itself on the target.

Upholstery thread require a little more work to make, (the way I do them does anyway,) but it produces a popper that tends to last longer than the mason lines ones, frays out JUST ENOUGH to make a loud BANG, but not enough to pick up all the stuff I mentioned above. They are prone to tangling and knotting, but not to the same extent as the mason twine ones are. They do a great job and cutting targets, and while mine typically don't produce the BANG that mason line does, they produce a good, sharp crack, along with a VERY appealing "Quip-Whoosh" sound you get before the BANG! They last a good long while too, if you're not power cracker, they can last a LONG time.

I really don't care at all for baling twine. I've used them and made them, and can see why they're favored by Australian competitive crackers. They don't tangle often, don't knot, and give a lound response. They wear down pretty fast though, ("Pretty Fast" is a relative term, though. If you put your whips through a pretty intense workout every day...and that doesn't mean power cracking....you might have to put a new one on once every two or three days, but I've had baling twine poppers last for weeks before pretty much wearing down to the end knot and just coming apart.) In writing this down, I've tried to actually FIND a REAL reason other than how they wear down to justify my distaste for them, but I don't really have one. I just don't like the "feel" and sound of the whip with baling twine poppers on it. So, my reasons are PURELY aesthetic. YMMV.

I do NOT recommend kevlar or dacron. I used this pretty extensively for a while, and it can be some caustic stuff! Now, it will last a while, but it does bite falls deeply, and can cut right through if you're not careful. It also doesn't "fluff" too awful well, (even baling twine will "fluff" a little bit, because the flat strands that make it up will split and fan out a bit.) The cracks you get from dacron and kevlar are sharp, bright, and not really so much loud and piercing. The one GREAT thing about kevlar and dacron though is that cutting targets with the popper with this stuff is a BREEZE. Yeah, you can cut paper, and vegetables, and all sorts of stuff with baling twine and upholstery thread, but the difference between them and kevlar/dacron is like the difference between cutting with a pair of safety scissors and cutting with a surgical scalpel.
So, that is something to bear in mind if you're doing fancy cracking where the whips are changing planes a lot, (Because when you hit yourself with the popper, you will most likely bleed,) or if you're cutting targets someone's HOLDING. Plus, you have the occasional problem where the popper tangles on the thong of the whip, or brushes the thong as it passes, and I've seen overlay strands get nicked and cut pretty badly with normal material poppers. Dacron and kevlar can cause abrasions that cut right through a kangaroo strand or weaken it significantly to cause it to pop down the line somewhere. So, to me, the risks greatly outnumber any benefits you might gain using kevlar to chop carrots and zucchini on stage.

[Marhala]

Some things I've found that influence the way a popper/cracker will perform, and summarizing a bit what Franco, James and Jim, have said, are:

1) Length of the cracker. Too long, it will knot. Too short, it may not crack properly.
2) Length of the fluff. Again, too long it will tangle. too short, it won't las that long.
3) Thickness of the cracker. Too thick, you need it to muscle it to crack, perhaps compromising the durability of the fall. Too thin, it may wear out pretty fast.

You'd have to make some experimentation, but the theory would go something like this: if you nail the right proportions for each and every part of your whip, there would be minimum wear and maximum durability and performance in the whip's life.

I myself have found that a good "all around" popper has a body length of 6in, and a fluff around two inches, perhaps a tad longer (2 1/4"). Of course, each and every whip is different, and I am a bit too obsessive about this, but you should taylor your whips' crackers to suit the job (multiple cracking, target cutting, etc.).

The fall usually influences the way the popper behaves. Too long, it may make the whip crack very lightly, and the fall may break down rather fast. Too short, it may put lots of pressure in the popper and wear it out too fast, too.

And I don't think this was a stupid question in any sense, Dan. You can see by the number of responses, that this is an issue regarding the whip's performance. When you make a whip, you must see it as a whole, and not just as pieces put together.

Just my two cents,

Aldo.

PS: I'm a fan of nylon thread too, and don't care much about baling twine.

[pfcyoung]

cool! This really helps. yeah i am not a fan of bailing twine either. thanks for all the tips guys!

[hollywood1340]

My Jacka came supplied with a poly twine cracker and it's the loudest thing outside of a rifle I've ever heard! Very different from my usual nylon thread. I took the poly off, but nylon on and the whip changed. Not only did it become quieter, but a few specific cracks became harder to get any sort of noise on at all. So now i"m on a quest to find poly twine domestically so I can keep these poppers on my Jacka. Next hurdle after that is replicating the poppers. Ah Venice!

[Cracker]

I may be totally off base here, but I think there is a difference in the polypro you find in the states and the polypro that comes from Australia. The crackers that came on my Bernie whip are a different texture than the poly bailing twine I have been able to find. What I have found is stiff and brittle, while the cracker on Bernie's whip is more supple and frays out very fine after a few cracks. And your right James, it produces a tremendous crack. It also lasts longer than what I have tried here in the states. I gave up on putting polypro crackers on my whips because they disintegrated after only an few throws. The one on Bernie's whip lasts a long time and actually was closer in feel to a mason line cracker without the tangling problems.

Jim

[Marhala]

I may be totally off base here, but I think there is a difference in the polypro you find in the states and the polypro that comes from Australia.
Jim

Never thought of that one, Jim. Might as well give bailing twine a second chance. Of course, if I EVER find that Australian twine.

Do you know if any of the Aussies sell it at their sites?

ATB,

Aldo.

[pfcyoung]

The bailing twine i have is literally "plastic string" i would have to show you a picture once i take one. I don't care for this stuff because it disintegrates as soon as you crack it.

[hollywood1340]

You can import it. I know Mike Murphy has it.

[Marhala]

Thanks James. Will try.

ATB,

Aldo.

[tym]

This is a great discussion. I have been cracking a bit as it's warmed up outside and have noticed that the nylon twine I've been using for crackers is a bit disappointing. They've had a tendency to knot, break, or fly off the end of the fall about once per session.

Upholstery thread require a little more work to make, (the way I do them does anyway,) but it produces a popper that tends to last longer than the mason lines ones, frays out JUST ENOUGH to make a loud BANG, but not enough to pick up all the stuff I mentioned above. They are prone to tangling and knotting, but not to the same extent as the mason twine ones are. They do a great job and cutting targets, and while mine typically don't produce the BANG that mason line does, they produce a good, sharp crack, along with a VERY appealing "Quip-Whoosh" sound you get before the BANG! They last a good long while too, if you're not power cracker, they can last a LONG time.

I'll have to give your technique a try: video.

[thefish]

That's not my popper video. That's Dan "Bullwhip" Borton, our gracious moderator in this forum.

Just want to give credit where it's due!

Mason line is simple, it's typically made up of three separate multithread strands. If you cut about a yard of it, separate the 3 strands out, double each one of those and twist it up, you end up with a good length of popper. There's already multiple filiments in the strand, so you don't have to make the loops needed for upholstery thread.

I'll try to do a mason twine video that demonstrates this, and also my favorite little portable "Popper Jig" tool:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RB02RI/ref ... nkCode=asn

This with a bit of bent paperclip where the bit goes, and you can turn out poppers in a FLASH!

Dan "thefish" Trout

[tym]

That's not my popper video. That's Dan "Bullwhip" Borton, our gracious moderator in this forum.

Oops! Sorry!

[hollywood1340]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK9TDrjyWY8

[Noah]

My Jacka came supplied with a poly twine cracker and it's the loudest thing outside of a rifle I've ever heard! Very different from my usual nylon thread. I took the poly off, but nylon on and the whip changed. Not only did it become quieter, but a few specific cracks became harder to get any sort of noise on at all. So now i"m on a quest to find poly twine domestically so I can keep these poppers on my Jacka. Next hurdle after that is replicating the poppers. Ah Venice!

Where can you get poly twine crackers?

[BullWhipBorton]

Thanks Dan,

I really only recommend using polypropylene bailing twine poppers as standard fair if your doing a lot of two handed whip cracking. I use it mostly on my match pairs, Because it’s stiffer it doesn’t tangle as easily as nylon if the whips brush in mid air, but the downfall is it wears down really fast.

I like the stuff I get from Mike Murphy because its thin and ideal for making poppers http://www.murphywhips.com/MW17A030PolyString.html
You can sometimes find this thinner more flexible polypropylene bailing twine, that works well for poppers fine at Home Depot stores. It comes in small bundles, is similar to the stuff mike carries and comes in various colors. It’s not as brittle as the more common thicker polypropylene twine. A lot of the heavier polypropylene bailing twine I’ve found has been more plastic like or too brittle for good poppers, so you might need to shop around a bit to find something more ideal.

You can really make poppers out of just about any thread or twine you have though. The white (pink or neon green) nylon mason twine is popular, but when you just double over one stand it can be a bit thick for some of the more finely made whips. Artificial nylon sinew and polypropylene bailing twine are other popular materials. Silk thread, horsehair and even just cotton thread will work in a pinch too, though proves not to be as hard wearing as nylon. I would avoid threads Kevlar, or spectra, they work well and make a good crack but they can also easily cut and nick leather if you make a mistake or get a tangle..

There are many types of heavy bonded nylon thread you can use, that’s what most of the professional whip makers use to make there nylon poppers and Most of them carry it in large spools, so you can make your own; you can sometimes find suitable stuff at Tandy’s Leather shops in North America too. What I’ve been using for years though is the Coats & Clark brand nylon upholstery thread. It’s a bit thinner gauge but works as well and allows me to easily control the thickness of the poppers plus it’s inexpensive and I can find it locally at my neighborhood Wal-Mart in many different colors

The way I make them in my tutorial video, they end up the same general thickness as David Morgan’s poppers, which I find ideal, but you could easily add or subtract a few loops though if you like them heavier or need them for a lighter whip or want to experiment to find what works best on your whips.

[tym]

^ How much does the Coats and Clark nylon thread fray and knot with use?

[BullWhipBorton]

Coats and Clark nylon thread poppers will fray out the same way as the other bonded nylon thread poppers made by companies like David Morgan, the Northern Whip Co., Midwestwhips, Delcarpio Whips, etc. Other then the strands being slightly thinner, it is essentially the same material.

Poppers are more likely to knot up while being used due to the way your cracking, rather then the material your poppers are made out of. However, With that said I don’t find that they are all that prone to knotting up while I’m cracking my whips.

Dan

[tym]

I just visited the local Jo-Ann and nearly all of their thread--including the Coats and Clark upholstery thread--is polyester. I did find some nylon overlocking thread by Gutermann. It's quite thin and not tightly woven, so it will fray quite easily. I might try Wal-Mart for nylon upholstery thread or just run with the overlocking thread unless there are specific technical reasons why a thinner loosely-woven thread would be a bad idea.

[BullWhipBorton]

I am not familiar enough with that brand, but as long as it’s a nylon type upholstery thread it should work just fine. I’ve seen everything from twisted yarn, to curtain cord, to cotton kite string used for poppers so try it and see how it works. You may need to experiment with a bit and adjust the number of strands you use per popper depending on the gauge of the thread. While im thinking of if, avoid nylon monofilament type thread. Its easy to confuse with upholstery thread but it doesn’t work too well for poppers and tends to bite into the leather.

The last time I was in a Jo-Anns fabric a few months ago, they no longer carried the coats and clark nylon upholstery thread, I was in a local Wal-Mart’s about a week ago though and they had a good supply of it in the thread section

[tym]

I usually avoid Wal-Mart like the plague, but the local one indeed had Coats and Clark nylon upholstery thread. The other thread from Jo-Ann didn't seem quite up to the task.