Club Obi Wan

I have a nice fur felt Biltmore fedora, and I have been trying to keep it nice all these years...It's finally showing some weathering, but really, I have no experience to say what's gonna happen to the shape and finish if I wear it out in a blizzard (such as the one we're experiencing now).
In short, I've always been afraid to wear my "nice" indy hat for the purposes it was made, for the purposes that fedoras were made, I imagine; keeping the elements off your head and face, and so forth.
When I get back from walking to the store in this blizzard, is my hat gonna be a floppy mess? Or is it gonna keep its shape and do the job i surmise it's supposed to do?
Any advice on hats in the snow/rain would be appreciated
THANKS!
Ravenswood

a little moisture shouldn't harm it...but if it get's "wet" that will. the hatmaking book i have from the early 1900's talks about the winter months being the slow time because people "STOP" wearing their hats because of the foulness of the weather. i don't think their design was meant for much more than keeping the sun out of the eyes and fashion.

now beaver is different and could probably weather the storm no sweat...

but someone with more authority than myself will probably speak up soon with a more definitive answer.

In my experience, the felt absorbs moisture and becomes stiffer and heavier and, like a canvas tent, more water repellent...up to a point. Dunking in a river or spending enough time in really heavy rain to completely saturate the hat may cause it to sag from it's own weight. Generally, though, if you don't fiddle with it the bash and brim won't change.

Once it's thoroughly wet you need to be careful handling it, and let it dry as you'll find described in lots of other threads.

LJ

Thanks!
I'm diving in.......
.....to the threads, that is
Ravenswood

Just....enjoy....your hat.

They're made to be used. Unless it's made of cardboard, or an extremely cheap felt, it was made to be used. A misting of water proofing is always recommended, but if you're going to worry about it getting wet when out in weather, it just takes the fun out of owning one.

Personally I wear my hats year round, and in all weather conditions.

Wear it, and enjoy life rather than sweating about these type details. Once you're home just let it dry correctly at room temperature, and go on.

Regards! Michaelson

I echo Michaelson's sentiment. Hats were meant to be worn. The current blizzard is just calling me to go out and play in the snow with a good fedora on my head. My Adventurebilts love this kind of weather!

Michaelson wrote:Just....enjoy....your hat.

They're made to be used. Unless it's made of cardboard, or an extremely cheap felt, it was made to be used. A misting of water proofing is always recommended, but if you're going to worry about it getting wet when out in weather, it just takes the fun out of owning one.

Personally I wear my hats year round, and in all weather conditions.

Wear it, and enjoy life rather than sweating about these type details. Once you're home just let it dry correctly at room temperature, and go on.

Regards! Michaelson

Well spoken, because in the end you can't take it with you, so you might as well enjoy!

Ok. So I'm going to buy either an Uptowner or a Downtowner from Todd next week.

I've heard that the Downtowner's hold up well in the rain. But I think I prefer the photos I've seen of the Uptowner. How does that hold up? And if I would need to waterproof it, any recommendations for waterproofers?

Regarding Biltmores - I agree, one should try to simply enjoy one's hat. But I also think you should be aware that what you have is more for show than function. It will serve you as a hat and all, but do not judge other hats by the Biltmore's durability or lack thereof. Some people have had very bad results with them. If you end up being one of them, don't let it sour you to rabbit felts entirely, or to hats in general.

BaptisteTheFool wrote:Ok. So I'm going to buy either an Uptowner or a Downtowner from Todd next week.

I've heard that the Downtowner's hold up well in the rain. But I think I prefer the photos I've seen of the Uptowner. How does that hold up? And if I would need to waterproof it, any recommendations for waterproofers?

I've worn both in pretty good drizzles, mild rains and snow storms, but have avoided the heavier downpours we've had in So.Cal lately.


If you're looking for a costume piece that's near bullet-proof, the downtowner is the way to go. I've worn my downtowner in jeans and working with horses, camping and other stuff. It's a fun hat for sure with a real Raiders caricature look (Definition: A caricature can refer to a portrait that exaggerates or distorts the essence of a person or thing to create an easily identifiable visual likeness.)
That's exactly what the downtowner does.

The Uptowner is a nice, do all hat that is a real bargain. Looks great for the costume, but fantastic as an every day hat, can be dressed up with a suit, etc, etc. and really looks good any place...cocktail lounge, swing club, theatre or just walking down the street. I wear mine everyday and get a lot of compliments.

my recommendation would be for the uptowner, but then again if you're still in H.S., the downtowner might fit better with the Trilby style the kids are all wearing...hard to say.

RaidersBash wrote:

BaptisteTheFool wrote:Ok. So I'm going to buy either an Uptowner or a Downtowner from Todd next week.

I've heard that the Downtowner's hold up well in the rain. But I think I prefer the photos I've seen of the Uptowner. How does that hold up? And if I would need to waterproof it, any recommendations for waterproofers?

I've worn both in pretty good drizzles, mild rains and snow storms, but have avoided the heavier downpours we've had in So.Cal lately.


If you're looking for a costume piece that's near bullet-proof, the downtowner is the way to go. I've worn my downtowner in jeans and working with horses, camping and other stuff. It's a fun hat for sure with a real Raiders caricature look (Definition: A caricature can refer to a portrait that exaggerates or distorts the essence of a person or thing to create an easily identifiable visual likeness.)
That's exactly what the downtowner does.

The Uptowner is a nice, do all hat that is a real bargain. Looks great for the costume, but fantastic as an every day hat, can be dressed up with a suit, etc, etc. and really looks good any place...cocktail lounge, swing club, theatre or just walking down the street. I wear mine everyday and get a lot of compliments.

my recommendation would be for the uptowner, but then again if you're still in H.S., the downtowner might fit better with the Trilby style the kids are all wearing...hard to say.

High School? Haha, I'm about to graduate college!

Yeah, I want a more every-day kind of hat. While I'm collecting the full get-up one piece at a time, I really want pieces that I can wear outside of gear as everyday attire which is why I'm not quite sure that the Downtowner is the right hat for me.

What about water-proofing the Uptowner? How well would that protect it?

Sorry Baptiste, I misunderstood "senior" from your earlier post. congratulations on getting near your degree.

I'm sure waterproofing would do wonders. I've read steve and others saying it's a must do for any hat. I've never added any to mine, which is in part why i've avoided any "extreme" water

RaidersBash wrote:Sorry Baptiste, I misunderstood "senior" from your earlier post. congratulations on getting near your degree.

I'm sure waterproofing would do wonders. I've read steve and others saying it's a must do for any hat. I've never added any to mine, which is in part why i've avoided any "extreme" water

No worries. And thanks much! Looking forward to getting out...


So has anyone waterproofed one of these Uptowners? Thoughts?

I don't have an uptowner, but I did it to my Christy's hat. After spraying with scotchgard, I waited for the chemicals to settle and dry then I just brushed the hat. Although, my hat has never seen any foul weather except the heat in my country... but no rain showers whatsoever. That is why I wouldn't know how effective the waterproofing is...

I forgot to take pictures, I know, I'm sorry, but I wore my Akubra Federation in the snow (I'm talking several hours, and it's still in good condition), and it did snow on it, but unfortunately, I know nothing about the quality of a Biltmore vs. a typical Akubra. I'm afraid I can't be much help there.

My Penman has been soaked with snow, sleet, rain, dirt, dust and God knows what. It just adds character to it. It makes me love it more. When my hat is protecting me from the elements (what it is designed to do...) that is when I am most at peace.

Travis

If you REALLY want to know how a particular brand will hold up to the elements all it takes is leaving the hat in a summer hot car for a couple of hours. If the hat tapers and shrinks, don't wear this brand in the rain!

A quality felt will NOT shrink and taper in a hot car. I have owned some brands, that tapered while on my head, in the heat of the South.

Any hat that you are to wear in the rain, has to have regular water repellant treatments. The key to this is to keep the core from getting saturated with water. Water repellant, regular treatments, will minimize this from happening. Also, never dry a wet or damp hat in a hot room. Put it somewhere where the temp is not above 75 degrees. So that it will dry very slowly. And punch it out to open crown when drying.

Another benefit of the repellant treatment is it works like Scotchguard. It resists stains. That might come in handy if you want to keep your lighter colored hats, stain free. Fedora

This one is primarily for Steve. What type of Scotchgard would you recommend? How much do you apply from a can and how (layers or once)? Do you apply to both sides of the hat? Do you need to protect the ribbon? Thanks again for the great info.

Matt

This one is primarily for Steve. What type of Scotchgard would you recommend? How much do you apply from a can and how (layers or once)? Do you apply to both sides of the hat? Do you need to protect the ribbon? Thanks again for the great info.

Not sure on the Scotchguard. I used to have the old kind, but I heard they changed the mix. But basically, on repellant treatments, I suggest spraying the hat, on the outside, with one coat, and rub it in with the fingers. Let it dry. Then come back and spray once more, and this time, let it sit on the surface. Too much repellant will act like shellac and make the hat stiffer. So, use just enough to do the job.

I spray my ribbons to help stop dye bleed.

Another good repellant is oil. Defracturnated coconut oil.(has no scent) Use a thick pad of cotton, apply enough oil to get the pad wet, and then heat the pad and oil up on your iron and rub into the felt. Beavers stay dry, but only because they treat their underfur with a natural oil they produce. The felting process removes all of the natural oils. So, it helps to put an oil back in. Just not anything critters might find eatable! Wool too has a natural oil that once removed, won't keep the feet warm if wet, in socks. So never wash your wool socks in detergent! Woolite only. This won't leech out the natural oil of the wool. An old backpacker deal.

My own rain hats are treated with oil, and then followed up by my repellent, naptha based. I have yet to have one to taper, from the rain, with this double dose. It works! Fedora

I was wondering about taper and found this thread.

What is it that really causes tapering? Is it the hat getting soaked? Is it heat? Or is it a combination of the two?

I mean if my hat were to get soaked in the rain (or something else), if I dry it in front of the air-con will the hat taper even if I'm using cold air to dry it? I'm assuming it won't. Am I right in my assumption? Actually, since it's already summer here, I've been placing my hat directly on the path of the air-con vent when I'm at home and it's not in use.

----------------------------------

It's soooooooooooo hot here right now. I just checked the weather here in Manila on my iPod Touch, it says the temp is 93'F... No wonder I feel like I'm melting.

I wonder how hot the inside of my car is right now... Imagine subjecting your hat to the extreme heat inside! I'm sure my Christy's would've shrunk almost instantly!

Anyway, if my hat survives this summer heatwave (yes, I still wear it when I go out... that's why I love whoever invented air-conditioning), I'm gonna be so surprised (and relieved).

Steve, when shopping for water repellent treatment, specifically a spray, what is it that we dont want to see in the ingredients? Thatd help in choosing one that wont damage the hat. Thanks.

I have read somewhere that products containing silicon is a no-no for hats...

True. Silicon is a bugger to get out of a hat when it's sent in for a clean/reblock.

Regards! Michaelson

So, are they any commercial products that are a-ok?

I use plain old ScotchGard since this is the only product available here. Something I've noticed about it is that it makes the hat kinda stiff when I pull it off my make-shift block (or is that because the hat was stretched over the block for 2 days when I sprayed it with scotchgard?).

Any idea where to find these things in the UK, since we can't import them? I can find the unscented coconut oil, but I don't know if it's the right kind or if I dare treat my lids with it in case it goes wrong.

Importing repellant to the UK Now that sounds like a business opportunity for someone.

Ian

Fenris:

I bought my water repellent from John Penman (aka Bending Oak).

If I remember right, I'm to spray it on in the following conditions:

1. If I put my hat up all summer long and I get it out in the fall. Before it gets rained on, apply a first treatment, then let it dry for a half hour, then hit it again with a second treatment.

2. Once a month.

3. After the hat has been rained on. Pop out the bash and set it crown-down and wait for it to dry naturally. After it dries, hit it with some treatment.

4. After falling down a series of three waterfalls.

I have 2 Fed's and a Henry. I've never had a problem with any of them, but since I've learned about Penman's water repellent, I go ahead and use it anyway.... I don't want taper.

BTW, somebody asked "what causes taper?" To put it simply: taper = shrinkage. Depending upon the composition (rabbit, or beaver, or wool, or nutria) and quality of the felt, it will shrink.

Do what Fedora and Bending Oak tell you. And they would both tell you that if your hat is made of rabbit, it can shrink if it gets really wet, so you need to waterproof it from time to time. ANY good gear you buy requires a little TLC and maintenance.

And Steve, thanks for the tip on wool socks...I never new that. Here I've been washing them all these years! Oh, and Steve, I have a message from Jesse Ventura's ribbon; it says "I ain't got time to bleed!"

Any felt hat that gets it's core soaked is going to tapper. Beaver will be harder to get the core soaked. Adding water repellent will help out.

I'm actually more concerned about the heat here in my country than the rain... It's summer here and the only chance my hat would get wet is if it falls in a pool.

I have no place to store it where the heat and humidity won't get to it... So I just wear it even if it's summer. Better to enjoy the hat and have it taper rather than to have it taper and shrink while stored in a cabinet, right?

Fedora wrote:

This one is primarily for Steve. What type of Scotchgard would you recommend? How much do you apply from a can and how (layers or once)? Do you apply to both sides of the hat? Do you need to protect the ribbon? Thanks again for the great info.

Not sure on the Scotchguard. I used to have the old kind, but I heard they changed the mix. But basically, on repellant treatments, I suggest spraying the hat, on the outside, with one coat, and rub it in with the fingers. Let it dry. Then come back and spray once more, and this time, let it sit on the surface. Too much repellant will act like shellac and make the hat stiffer. So, use just enough to do the job.

I spray my ribbons to help stop dye bleed.

Another good repellant is oil. Defracturnated coconut oil.(has no scent) Use a thick pad of cotton, apply enough oil to get the pad wet, and then heat the pad and oil up on your iron and rub into the felt. Beavers stay dry, but only because they treat their underfur with a natural oil they produce. The felting process removes all of the natural oils. So, it helps to put an oil back in. Just not anything critters might find eatable! Wool too has a natural oil that once removed, won't keep the feet warm if wet, in socks. So never wash your wool socks in detergent! Woolite only. This won't leech out the natural oil of the wool. An old backpacker deal.

My own rain hats are treated with oil, and then followed up by my repellent, naptha based. I have yet to have one to taper, from the rain, with this double dose. It works! Fedora

Thanks for that Steve. How often do you do that with the oil? Water repellent for fur hats is almost impossible to find in the UK. Does the oil make your hat oily to touch after as in for ever (I assume the oil doesn't dry out)?

Ian

John sells some.http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=9 ... 4550378449

Travis

Hollowpond wrote:John sells some.http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=9 ... 4550378449

Travis

Cheers Travis, but John can't ship that stuff outside the US.

100 posts...Woo-Hoo!!

Ian

Ian wrote:

Hollowpond wrote:John sells some.http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=9 ... 4550378449

Travis

Cheers Travis, but John can't ship that suff outside the US.

100 posts...Woo-Hoo!!

Ian

Congrats on the 100th

Travis

Well, I've bought some Nicwax spray. I'm gonna test it on my Christys first before I do anything else.

Ian

So your Christy's is basically one of the guys in a red shirt from Star Trek?

jkdbuck76 wrote:So your Christy's is basically one of the guys in a red shirt from Star Trek?

Yes, you could say that. It was one of my first lids and it's tapered due to some rain. Don't wear it anymore, but kept it for occasions such as this. I'm not really a Christy's fan.

Ian

That Nicwax seems to work really well. It's not got any Naptha in it and as far as I can tell it's water based with no silicates in it.

I may have been too liberal with the spray at first, so there were some places where the spray gathered and dried into a white residue, but that brushed off no problem. Other than that, you'd hardly notice it had been done, no extra stifness at all and I gave it 2 coats in total.

I've thrown some water on it and it beads nicely on the surface without soaking in. Mission accomplished. Just need to see how long it'll last for now.

Ian

hanks for that Steve. How often do you do that with the oil? Water repellent for fur hats is almost impossible to find in the UK. Does the oil make your hat oily to touch after as in for ever (I assume the oil doesn't dry out)?

I treat my own bout once a year, with the oil. And yes, once you apply the hot oil and rub it into the felt, the hat does feel oily. But the next step is to hit the hat with some steam, which gets rid of most of the oily feel. Within a couple of days, the oily fell goes away as the oil is wicked down into the felt more.

You can buy the defracturnated coconut oil online, from a cosmetics supplier. That is where I bought a bottle, bout 4 years ago. 12 oz will last you for a LONG TIME. Like a lifetime. When I am told by the customer that he lives in a wet state, like Oregon, I always treat those hats with both the oil and my water repellant treatment. And what I do like about this double dose method is the stuff I use for water repellant is naptha based, and pushes some of the oil into the core of the felt. It washes it inward. This also gets rid of any oily feel, as I won't sent out an oily hat. But be forewarned. The oil will darken up the color by a shade or two. Over time, it lightens back up though.

This oil deal is not new. Hats used to be advertised using this as a selling point. Fedora

Thanks for that Steve.

This would be for my Henry though. I've been out in the rain wearing the hat you made for me and the water beads nicely.

Ian

I've been out in the rain wearing the hat you made for me and the water beads nicely.

Well, for now anyways. Over time and rain exposure, the water repellant seems to go away. Not sure exactly how long my and John's naptha based stuff lasts, but the old B and L did not last that long, if I recollect right. I do know this naptha based stuff does last longer, just not sure how long. The variable is how long you were in the rain, and how much water was coming down. I do double treat all of the hats I send out, rubbing the first application into the felt, then let that dry(couple hours) followed by a topical application. This works better than just doing it topically.

Also, the naptha makes the mottled pounce job clear up! Makes the freshly pounced hat look new, otherwise it would look worn. For years I looked for a product that would kill pounce mottle, and found it accidently when I sourced this naptha based water/stain protector. All other repellants are alchohol based for quick dry times, but won't clean up pounce mottle. But the truth is, I really don't know if the naptha is killing the mottle, or the active ingredient(which is not listed on the bottle, a secret I guess) is doing the job. I assumed it was the naptha, as that is the only chemical I never tried over the years in the attempt to find something that would work. I tried just plain water, grain alcohol, isopropyl alcohol, mentanol, laquer thinner, all fast drying products. Stayed away from the naptha as I knew that stuff could take a whole day to dry if the hat was soaked in it. And has to be dried outside due to the fumes being toxic, plus, very flammable. Not something you want to smell as you work on other hats. But, I gotta say, this naptha based stuff is the best I have seen, a miracle treatment. First thing I did was to tell John about it, as I knew he would be going through the same things I went through with that mottle. Marc somehow got some shipped to him in Germany! Wait, should I even say that? Ok, I was mistaken, he did not get it shipped to him! A mistake. Fedora

No, I didn't hear you say anything about naptha being shipped to Europe

That's the thing here, especially in the NW of England. I'm in an old cotton mill town and of course cotton mills were built in damp regions to prevent the thread snapping. Just can't garantee that the rain will stay away.
I've trawled the web looking for suitable naptha based repellent here in the UK, but to no avail. The only stuff available seems to be the type of weather proofing that's used for outdoors gear. That's what that Nicwax is. I spoke to the tech department at Nicwax to make sure that there were no silicates in there and the guy said that it promotes breathability whilst repelling water. Something about it being a natural polymer based repellent that penetrates the fiber rather than just sitting on the top of the felt. It's also not solvent based.

I've got a few practice hats that I'll try various things on, but so far this seems pretty good. I'm gonna attempt the coconut oil method that you suggested as well, but then follow up with the Nicwax(since I can't get any of your stuff) and see if they react or something. (Might turn the felt green )

Ian

I prefer a well worn, beat up, sweat stained hat anyway. I wear my fed 4 fishing, working in the yard, hiking etc. Dust it with Chinchilla powder for Halloween. if it falls apart, I'll hang it on the wall and buy another one.

Not too bothered about my Fed IV getting roughed up, but my AB....Now that's a different matter.

I went to a tour of the old city of Intramuros here in Manila today and it rained pretty hard. I was wearing my Fed IV and it got pretty soaked!!! The hat was literally drenched on the outside, but the underside of the brim was still dry. Now I'm getting paranoid... Although it didn't get soaked to the core, I'm still worried about taper (coming from a Christy's, I guess that's a normal fear).

Thanks!

Dunno. . I've had both my regular and deluxe soaked here in the UK and I've not seen any taper yet. The Fed IV is much tougher felt than Chrisy's.

Ian

I was actually surprised it handled that much rain without the water soaking through. It was weird seeing beads of water trickling down the brim right in front of me. I had to walk about a kilometer in the rain to reach the car and was kinda worried that if I didn't get out of the rain, that the water might indeed soak through the felt.

fenris wrote:I went to a tour of the old city of Intramuros here in Manila today and it rained pretty hard. I was wearing my Fed IV and it got pretty soaked!!! The hat was literally drenched on the outside, but the underside of the brim was still dry. Now I'm getting paranoid... Although it didn't get soaked to the core, I'm still worried about taper (coming from a Christy's, I guess that's a normal fear).

Thanks!

Doesn't sound like your hat got soaked to the core. Just let it dry naturally for a day or so and it should be fine.

BendingOak wrote:

fenris wrote:I went to a tour of the old city of Intramuros here in Manila today and it rained pretty hard. I was wearing my Fed IV and it got pretty soaked!!! The hat was literally drenched on the outside, but the underside of the brim was still dry. Now I'm getting paranoid... Although it didn't get soaked to the core, I'm still worried about taper (coming from a Christy's, I guess that's a normal fear).

Thanks!

Doesn't sound like your hat got soaked to the core. Just let it dry naturally for a day or so and it should be fine.

Is it okay for the hat to dry in front of a fan in an airconditioned room? I'm assuming since it's cool air, it will be a better alternative than having it dry in a hot and humid room.

fenris wrote:

BendingOak wrote:

fenris wrote:I went to a tour of the old city of Intramuros here in Manila today and it rained pretty hard. I was wearing my Fed IV and it got pretty soaked!!! The hat was literally drenched on the outside, but the underside of the brim was still dry. Now I'm getting paranoid... Although it didn't get soaked to the core, I'm still worried about taper (coming from a Christy's, I guess that's a normal fear).

Thanks!

Doesn't sound like your hat got soaked to the core. Just let it dry naturally for a day or so and it should be fine.

Is it okay for the hat to dry in front of a fan in an airconditioned room? I'm assuming since it's cool air, it will be a better alternative than having it dry in a hot and humid room.

I don't think it will hurt it.