Club Obi Wan

I have been cracking bullwhips for about two years now and I still can't do a flick or sidearm crack! My whips are nylon western stage props (one 6' and one 8') whips and they both havent had a lot of time to break in (bloody weather LOL) could this be why or is there more to it?

if you have nylon whips, you dont have to worry about them being ruined by bad weather.
and also, they dont really "break in" as much as you might think.


have you looked at adam winrich's youtube tutorials?

here's the link anyway:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od7JBEIQj7M

hope that helps.

Conversely there is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XfAgsJ0VmE

It's been very hard for me to understand the flicks too.
I don't have any experience with nylon whips.
Anyway flicks are more easy to perform with longer whips for beginners .
So training with your 8fter should be better.

jp

It took me forever to get the "forward flick". In the book I will never write about cracking (being (1) a n00b and (2) lazy), I'd break cracks down into requiring various combinations of timing, wrist and force. The "flick" was the first I tried that required getting all three pretty much spot on, or you're just flailing at the ground with the whip.

First off, just get used to your arm moving in the right motion: start in front, drag out behind and up (like you're going to pitch a baseball), pause, then forward and down. Repeat, repeat, repeat until you're really tired.

Second - the wind up. This crack has a ridiculously long "hang time" with the whip straight out behind you. There should be plenty of time to glance over your shoulder and see the whip hanging there in mid-air.

Third - the pitch. Your hand moves straight forward exactly like pitching a baseball, at about shoulder height, maintaining the same angle (pointing mostly upwards, slightly tipped backwards). The pitch needs to be fast and (I found at first) rather forceful. Once I "had it" I could do it more slowly/gently but I found the force required for this rather startling at first, especially with a tight nylon whip.

Fourth - the flick. As your arm straightens out, your wrist snaps down so the handle faces forward. You should have a clear view of the loop forming and rolling out in front of you. This is a good time to break out your gloves, as you'll have the cracker flying at 400mph past the back of your hand at first.

And remember, unlike many other cracks where getting it wrong still feels slightly impressive ("eat whooshing popper of death, demon-scum!"), this one does make you feel like an idiot and impotently flailing at the ground while you're practicing. But keep at it! It's very satisfying once it works, and it repeats quickly too.

I to have Western Stage 6 footer and it is hard to crack with a forward flick, it is very very light and harder to get to roll out as say easily as a roo hide whip of the same length. the advice given here by winrich, mcfly and others is the best you will find around. Just practice, practice and practice.

My flicks are e simple extension of the roll drill Take a knee. Roll the whip in front of you. Do the same thing behind. Keep that up to a low crouch. Then stand. I'm not a fan of starting in front as I'm not aligned with my target and I also consider it wasted motion. From behind, a simple smooth drag, push, squeeze should do it. The flick I think is the least practiced of our cracks because if done with out the "wind up" it's a very tough crack to master. But worth it when you do. There is so much motion study in getting it right that the crack is simply a by product of good form. That's my method and I shall stick too it. Never about the crack. It's how you get there

I agree with James (Hollywood) all the way.

I'm going to assume that like me, he learned from Anthony De Longis.

A flick, whether over hand, underhand, side-arm, etc. has to create a hair-pin turn, unlike a gypsy (cattleman's crack), which has the whip reversing direction, same as an overhead crack.

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%25 ... 720&ref=mf

This link shows a series of photos in motion demonstrating a sidearm crack.

Also check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvJ3k16EVX0











If you need help, though, seriously, make a video of yourself. Maybe I can prescribe for you some corrections. It is a hard crack that takes time to master.

Also check out the forward, sidearm and underhanded flicks I do in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTwyFU_v7FE

I do it a bit differently than Adam. Like James, I start with the whip behind me, not in front. Though I do occasionally do it that way. As I said, I learned this personally from Anthony De Longis.

Hope this helps!

DHW

hollywood1340 wrote:Conversely there is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XfAgsJ0VmE

Hey, thanks for the plug, James! Glad you think my video is worth something.

Shane

I should point out that you should be able to perform BOTH versions of the flick. Being well rounded is important as a whip user!

those are pretty good daren. maybe one day we can get together in a park and you can teach me to be better. i use my whips working with horses, but mostly to gun break them and teach them to stand still. sometimes in the roundpen, but never to really crack them, mostly to just flick it out to 'em to keep 'em moving. i sure would like to learn some of the more flowing routines.

Okay, now I'm confused. Should the natural curve be heading down, or should it be curving up when holding it? I've always used it curving down, but I see the logic behind it curving up, especially for the flick. Help?

Vaderbreath wrote:Okay, now I'm confused. Should the natural curve be heading down, or should it be curving up when holding it? I've always used it curving down, but I see the logic behind it curving up, especially for the flick. Help?

According to Anthony De Longis (and many other whip instructors and enthusiasts, though not all), the curve should be up for an overhand flick and down for an underhand flick. If you are doing a sidearm flick, in the starting position the whip ought to be curved so as to be almost curving backward around your body. Then when you reach forward, the whip extends, sending the curve the other way (bending it momentarily against its natural curve), moving across your body, from your right to left side. See the photos I attached above.

I highly recommend buying Anthony De Longis DVD series's "Mastering the Bullwhip" parts I and II.

DHW

RaidersBash wrote:those are pretty good daren. maybe one day we can get together in a park and you can teach me to be better. i use my whips working with horses, but mostly to gun break them and teach them to stand still. sometimes in the roundpen, but never to really crack them, mostly to just flick it out to 'em to keep 'em moving. i sure would like to learn some of the more flowing routines.

Would love to get together with you, RaidersBash. I live in California in the SF Bay Area.

Where do you live?

By the way, this offer is pretty much extended to anyone else who lives near me and would like to get together for whip practice.

DHW

DarenHenryW wrote:

Vaderbreath wrote:Okay, now I'm confused. Should the natural curve be heading down, or should it be curving up when holding it? I've always used it curving down, but I see the logic behind it curving up, especially for the flick. Help?

According to Anthony De Longis (and many other whip instructors and enthusiasts, though not all), the curve should be up for an overhand flick and down for an underhand flick. If you are doing a sidearm flick, in the starting position the whip ought to be curved so as to be almost curving backward around your body. Then when you reach forward, the whip extends, sending the curve the other way (bending it momentarily against its natural curve), moving across your body, from your right to left side. See the photos I attached above.

I highly recommend buying Anthony De Longis DVD series's "Mastering the Bullwhip" parts I and II.

DHW

Basically, the way Daren and I do it, and lots of other guys too, is this: If you hold out your hand in a "thumbs up" position, the natural curve of the whip will always move from your knuckles towards your thumb. In this way, when you do a flick, the curve goes up. In a sidearm, it goes out towards your right (though gravity makes it harder to see), when doing an underarm, it comes under your hand and towards your stomach, etc. etc. It's a really good way to form the loop that you want to send down the length of the thong, and it helps control and specify the direction in which the whip will travel, allowing you to restrict it to more of a front to back motion for example, in the flick, than an up to down motion, or in other words, to help you STAB with the whip, rather than SLICE.

Shane

hollywood1340 wrote:My flicks are e simple extension of the roll drill Take a knee. Roll the whip in front of you. Do the same thing behind. Keep that up to a low crouch. Then stand. I'm not a fan of starting in front as I'm not aligned with my target and I also consider it wasted motion. From behind, a simple smooth drag, push, squeeze should do it. The flick I think is the least practiced of our cracks because if done with out the "wind up" it's a very tough crack to master. But worth it when you do. There is so much motion study in getting it right that the crack is simply a by product of good form. That's my method and I shall stick too it. Never about the crack. It's how you get there

sure would like to see a video of this drill.

i also do mine starting behind...but it is a frustrating manuever for sure...i get it right about 10% of the time right now, but i did just start after watching daren and mcflys videos.

those were great helps

When I get a chance, I will make a video explaining this maneuver. And I will make no apology for the fact that I'm going to explain it the way that Anthony De Longis does it. So if you want to get it from the horse's mouth, please buy his video if you can't book a trip out to his ranch. I will do my best to give you his version. He is a master by the way, and I really encourage you to spend the dough on his instructional DVD.

So, look for a video here at some point over the next week. I will explain the drill that James (Hollywood) was talking about. And I will explain all the versions of the flick: the version with the whip in front, the way Adam does it, and all the "angles of attack" with the whip starting from behind, the way Anthony does it.

Check this out, there are 10 angles: Five on each side of the body. 1) Forward overhand verticle, 2) forward overhand diagonal, 3) sidearm horizontal, 4) upward underhand diagonal, 5) upward underhand verticle.

Now, repeat all of these on the left side of your body, and you've got 10 "flicks".

You can also experiment with these behind your body . . . put the whip in front and move backwards. Its not as easy, but you get the idea.

Back soon to post my video.

DHW

Then if we take the five angles (10) from Latito y Daga and put them with other form of Filipino martial arts we can have even more! One of my instructors teaches ten angles for a total of twenty! Duplicating those with a whip is a great challenge and really opens your mind to how the whip works on all angles of attack. Remember, for every action there is not only just on opposite, but a reverse For those of you who are more of an Australian bent when it comes to cracking, things are a bit different. Check out Mike Murphy's videos to see how they differ. For me I've found in the DeLongis style where I'm trying to gain energy and align the whip, it's a spot for another crack! There is so much to learn and it can be tough to remember there is no right way, only the way that works. And there are many ways to do it!

Hi James,
Speaking of Filipino martial arts and related, I noticed that the Sayoc system is now incorporating whip work as well into their catalog! I always said that so many different arts and weapon forms were interchangeable and glad to see that proven nowadays!

Crack On!
Allen

Been working on that!
(shamelessplug)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnMyj0Gqt2g
(Endshamelssplug)

That's awesome!
Imagine incorporating "thundering hammers" or "five swords".... vicious I tell you... vicious!