Check out this 2006 AB
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:24 pm
Here's the story on this one. I got this hat back in Oct for a reblock. The owner wants to change it into the CS fedora. His note in with the hat stated he bought it in 06, which would make it a couple years old, perhaps even close to 3 years. I did not use to date my hats on the inside of the sweat as I do today.
Anyways, here she is, as I just pulled it from the box, and put back in the creases that had come out in shipping. This hat has lightened up in color with the wear, and doesn't look to have been used in the elements much, but who knows? I think going by the shape of the sweats and liner, it was worn alot, just probably city type wear. But that's a guess. I will change out both the sweat and liner, per his request when I reblock it to the CS shape. This must have been an excellent run of felt here, because it looks the same as the day I made it, 2 to 3 years ago. No taper.
Yeah, I am proud of this one here!!! Now I know why I get so few ABs back for reblocks.
But I understand fully that some runs of felt are just better than others. Because I make all of my hats the exact same way. I have gotten back a 3 or 4 over the years that indeed were in need of a reblock, due to the hat tapering too much for a Raiders fedora. But, most of the ones that have come back, actually needed a new ribbon, sweat and liner more than in need for a reblock. But, I reblock regardless. And the ones that were tapered looked to have seen some rough use, and probably saw alot of rain in the process. And perhaps the run that I used was not one of the better ones. You never know, until much later.
On my friend's John locked down thread, I was discussing the manner that we sew in our sweats. And how pulling the sweat up into the hat more than is needed, creates one of the pecular things that we find appealing about the Raiders brim. And, I do that, John does it, and LLS does it as well. As they learned from me, and John learned alot from Marc. It was one of my little secrets in replicating the Raiders fedora, and getting some of those nuances that you see in this one hat. Afterall, it has a different look than a typical run of the mill fedora. And I feel there were reasons for this. And we, all of us, have tried to replicate that, as best that we could.
And as I stated on that thread, the manner in which we install sweats IS NOT, the traditional manner of doing that chore. But, would add, that if I were just to make a tradtional fedora, non Indy, I would install the sweat in the traditional manner, as I am sure the rest would, especially if asked to do so. Afterall, it is actually easier to do so. But, here is the deal. You can only install a sweat in this manner(Indy fedora) if you do it by hand. Once you have done one, you would understand the reason that I say this.
A machine designed for installing sweats is a Singer 107 if my memory serves me correctly. But, it is not designed to pull the sweat up into the hat, to the degree that we do.
On the above pic of the 06 Raiders AB, here is the effect on the back of the hat of the "pull" we put into the sweat installation. Even though this particular felt is stiffer than what I am using today, it still creates that effect that Lee was curious about. But understand, from a traditional hatters viewpoint, this is NOT what you want the brim to do as it leaves the 90 degree brim break!! We engineer it in, totally intentional. Look at the brim break, where the ribbon has slid up. Then follow the line of the brim where it leaves the brim break. It dips, or droops downward, before the flange turns it back up, on the very back. This is a feature you will see on all of my Indy fedoras to various degrees depending upon the run of felt.
As Indy's hat was worn in Raiders, the same thing happened to the Raiders fedora, with the most extreme example being the SOC fedora. The trouble with a pure beaver Raiders fedora, is that the quality of the felt is so darn high, it will not exhibit the ageing characteristics of rabbit felt. So, we engineer just a bit into it when we make the hat. If I used a soft rabbit, this technique I discovered, would help in achieving the brim of the Raiders fedora with some good wear. That is, it works better on rabbit, but is still visible on a pure beaver Raiders fedora. Just not to the same degree.
I discovered this technique, way back when I was first learning how to make hats. I was working with a soft vintage hat, putting in a new sweat as the old one was dry rotted and literaly falling apart. After scribing off my line above the brim break, I noted how far up I had put the line. The previous hat, I had done the same way, but had only come up 1/2 as much as this one. Once I got the sweat sewed in, I immediately saw what this did to the brim! And, I liked it. I liked it alot, expecially since this was one facet of the Raiders fedora that has been missing on the factory hats I owned at the time. And as with many things, you start doing this with all of the hats you make, and forget why you did it to start with. Until your memory gets jogged. I had completely forgotten about it again, when John's locked thread brought up hand sewing versus machine sewing. And I am glad it came up, because, this was one of the things I learned early on, but never really talked about it, mostly because it was one of my secrets.
But at this stage in my life, with retirement within eye shot, why not share?
The new and future hatters just need to understand, this is only for Indy fedoras, Raiders and CS ones. If you are just making a standard fedora, don't pull the sweat up anymore than is needed to seat the reed. You will then have the traditional 90 degree brim break, a nice crisp one that is sign of a well put together hat. But in the process, you lose a bit of character. And character is what any hat should be about. IMO.
There is a down side to sweat installation in this manner I must address. Sometimes, but not all times, when you pull the sweat down into the hat, to get this effect on the brim, it will cause the sweatband to develop a wrinkle. A large one, as the sweat bulges out on the inside of the hat. Now, it doesn't look good, and when this does happan, I cringe. But, I know that as soon as it is worn a few times, this will flatten down and look right. Add to that the fact that most of my ribbons are really tight on a Raiders fedora, and this doesn't help. Its a combo of the way the sweat is installed and a tight ribbon. But, happily, this goes away with wear, IF the hat fits properly, i.e. is not too large for your head. Fedora
Anyways, here she is, as I just pulled it from the box, and put back in the creases that had come out in shipping. This hat has lightened up in color with the wear, and doesn't look to have been used in the elements much, but who knows? I think going by the shape of the sweats and liner, it was worn alot, just probably city type wear. But that's a guess. I will change out both the sweat and liner, per his request when I reblock it to the CS shape. This must have been an excellent run of felt here, because it looks the same as the day I made it, 2 to 3 years ago. No taper.
Yeah, I am proud of this one here!!! Now I know why I get so few ABs back for reblocks.
But I understand fully that some runs of felt are just better than others. Because I make all of my hats the exact same way. I have gotten back a 3 or 4 over the years that indeed were in need of a reblock, due to the hat tapering too much for a Raiders fedora. But, most of the ones that have come back, actually needed a new ribbon, sweat and liner more than in need for a reblock. But, I reblock regardless. And the ones that were tapered looked to have seen some rough use, and probably saw alot of rain in the process. And perhaps the run that I used was not one of the better ones. You never know, until much later. On my friend's John locked down thread, I was discussing the manner that we sew in our sweats. And how pulling the sweat up into the hat more than is needed, creates one of the pecular things that we find appealing about the Raiders brim. And, I do that, John does it, and LLS does it as well. As they learned from me, and John learned alot from Marc. It was one of my little secrets in replicating the Raiders fedora, and getting some of those nuances that you see in this one hat. Afterall, it has a different look than a typical run of the mill fedora. And I feel there were reasons for this. And we, all of us, have tried to replicate that, as best that we could.
And as I stated on that thread, the manner in which we install sweats IS NOT, the traditional manner of doing that chore. But, would add, that if I were just to make a tradtional fedora, non Indy, I would install the sweat in the traditional manner, as I am sure the rest would, especially if asked to do so. Afterall, it is actually easier to do so. But, here is the deal. You can only install a sweat in this manner(Indy fedora) if you do it by hand. Once you have done one, you would understand the reason that I say this.
A machine designed for installing sweats is a Singer 107 if my memory serves me correctly. But, it is not designed to pull the sweat up into the hat, to the degree that we do.
On the above pic of the 06 Raiders AB, here is the effect on the back of the hat of the "pull" we put into the sweat installation. Even though this particular felt is stiffer than what I am using today, it still creates that effect that Lee was curious about. But understand, from a traditional hatters viewpoint, this is NOT what you want the brim to do as it leaves the 90 degree brim break!! We engineer it in, totally intentional. Look at the brim break, where the ribbon has slid up. Then follow the line of the brim where it leaves the brim break. It dips, or droops downward, before the flange turns it back up, on the very back. This is a feature you will see on all of my Indy fedoras to various degrees depending upon the run of felt.
As Indy's hat was worn in Raiders, the same thing happened to the Raiders fedora, with the most extreme example being the SOC fedora. The trouble with a pure beaver Raiders fedora, is that the quality of the felt is so darn high, it will not exhibit the ageing characteristics of rabbit felt. So, we engineer just a bit into it when we make the hat. If I used a soft rabbit, this technique I discovered, would help in achieving the brim of the Raiders fedora with some good wear. That is, it works better on rabbit, but is still visible on a pure beaver Raiders fedora. Just not to the same degree.
I discovered this technique, way back when I was first learning how to make hats. I was working with a soft vintage hat, putting in a new sweat as the old one was dry rotted and literaly falling apart. After scribing off my line above the brim break, I noted how far up I had put the line. The previous hat, I had done the same way, but had only come up 1/2 as much as this one. Once I got the sweat sewed in, I immediately saw what this did to the brim! And, I liked it. I liked it alot, expecially since this was one facet of the Raiders fedora that has been missing on the factory hats I owned at the time. And as with many things, you start doing this with all of the hats you make, and forget why you did it to start with. Until your memory gets jogged. I had completely forgotten about it again, when John's locked thread brought up hand sewing versus machine sewing. And I am glad it came up, because, this was one of the things I learned early on, but never really talked about it, mostly because it was one of my secrets.
But at this stage in my life, with retirement within eye shot, why not share? The new and future hatters just need to understand, this is only for Indy fedoras, Raiders and CS ones. If you are just making a standard fedora, don't pull the sweat up anymore than is needed to seat the reed. You will then have the traditional 90 degree brim break, a nice crisp one that is sign of a well put together hat. But in the process, you lose a bit of character. And character is what any hat should be about. IMO.
There is a down side to sweat installation in this manner I must address. Sometimes, but not all times, when you pull the sweat down into the hat, to get this effect on the brim, it will cause the sweatband to develop a wrinkle. A large one, as the sweat bulges out on the inside of the hat. Now, it doesn't look good, and when this does happan, I cringe. But, I know that as soon as it is worn a few times, this will flatten down and look right. Add to that the fact that most of my ribbons are really tight on a Raiders fedora, and this doesn't help. Its a combo of the way the sweat is installed and a tight ribbon. But, happily, this goes away with wear, IF the hat fits properly, i.e. is not too large for your head. Fedora
Wow - can you even get those anymore? I did a quick Google just to see and I found only one place that looked like they might have them for sale. 