Club Obi Wan

From the Nov. 1936 Life Magazine in RotLA

Hey, 3thou! Long time no see. Welcome back. Interesting photos. That guy in the last one looks downright scary...

And his hat is turned... well, worn off-center.

Driving what I drive, that first photo has a personal meaning to me.

Regards! Michaelson

Does the sign say "Don't let this happen this winter, get rid of your car now"?

Or "take care of your car."

...or maybe even "get UNDER your car!"

Michaelson wrote:Driving what I drive, that first photo has a personal meaning to me.

Regards! Michaelson

Castor Dioscuri wrote:...or maybe even "get UNDER your car!"

I spend enough time under there as it is!

Regards! Michaelson

Nice pics. Honestly, I still wonder why did hats really go out of fashion?

That reminds me, I have a 1936 Sears & Roebuck Catalogue and have been meanig to post some pics from there too. If I can figure out how to scan them without distortion or damage to the book.

There have been a number of theories on this. I think the best one is that, put simply, by the 60's, hats were the establishment. They were what your father would wear, what the manager of a factory would wear. The 60's were all about breaking away from the establishment, and it didn't help that hats don't go all that well with long hair. I don't see the decline of the hat as a good thing or a bad thing. It's just what happened. Nowadays, short hair is more popular and hats are no longer associated with the establishment but instead are a good way of establishing oneself as an individual. Thus, they're coming back. -M

My added observation is that during that time was that hats also slowly stopped being an item of useable and useful clothing (sun blocker/rain blocker etc.) and turned into much more of an item of added fashion.

Let's face it, a 'stingy' brim offers no protection from anything what so ever.

Men eventually began to say 'why bother?', and only wore them when it rained....and eventually not at all!

I know that's what I observed my Dad to do in those years, as he always wore a hat in my early childhood....but as time progressed, the only time he wore a hat was when it got cold. Period.

That said, though, I have read on numerous occasions that JFK has always been credited for the death of the men's hat industry. An oft repeated story was that JFK and brother RFK were going to a meeting, both wearing Hombergs, and one said to the other, 'let's leave the hats behind. We look like a couple of Irish gangsters!" Laughing ensued, the hats were left, and an industry started to die, as EVERYONE wanted to copy whatever JFK and wife Jackie were doing at the time!

Well, in a related discussion in Lao Che, we were lead to another hat maker in Oregon who has THIS posted on their website:

President Jack Kennedy also created quite a stir in the hat world when he wore a top hat to his inauguration. It wasn't so much that everyone went out and bought a top hat, but the fact that he wore a top hat introduced the possibility of wearing hats into the consciousness of millions of people in one brief instant. That is a perfect example of cultural change: where a simple suggestion, in the proper context, alters the view of an entire society.
http://www.newsboycap.com/

Talk about a complete 180 degree turn on the story, let alone what we actually experienced during his presidency and in the few years right after JFK died! Interesting.

Regards! Michaelson

And we all know that if JFK had been wearing an Adventurebily in Dallas that day, he would've been bulletproof.

The Life car has the same style narrow grille and headlights on sideways stalks, as does the car in front of the College in the Peru-to Indy's campus transition, and, Marcus' car. Speaking of cars, around 1959 - 1960, roof lines on cars started dropping lower, leaving less room for hats. The Beatles, who arrived when JFK was in office, made Hair more important than hats. By the early 70's, even politicians had long(ish) hair. (President Jimmy Carter, for example)

That's true. In 10 short years the car companies went from bragging about their overhead 'hat' room of their cars (a BIG selling point in 1950 Plymouth/Dodge ads, and literally catering to men and women and their headwear) to no head room what so ever!

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick wrote:And we all know that if JFK had been wearing an Adventurebily in Dallas that day, he would've been bulletproof.

"That day" was on this day, November 22nd, in 1963.

Michaelson wrote:That's true. In 10 short years the car companies went from bragging about their overhead 'hat' room of their cars (a BIG selling point in 1950 Plymouth/Dodge ads, and literally catering to men and women and their headwear) to no head room what so ever!

Regards! Michaelson

How true. You can ask my wife...when I am looking at cars for potential purchase, the first thing I am concerned with is 'hat room.' That is probably why I drive Jeeps! W>

My car has a sunroof, but doesn't -quite- line up. Frustrating.

WConly wrote:

Michaelson wrote:That's true. In 10 short years the car companies went from bragging about their overhead 'hat' room of their cars (a BIG selling point in 1950 Plymouth/Dodge ads, and literally catering to men and women and their headwear) to no head room what so ever!

Regards! Michaelson

How true. You can ask my wife...when I am looking at cars for potential purchase, the first thing I am concerned with is 'hat room.' That is probably why I drive Jeeps! W>

If anyone wants a car (not a truck) with lots of head (hat) room, take a sit in a MINI Cooper.

And his hat is turned... well, worn off-center

The Montecristi looking one? Yeah, you can see it is off center going by the front crease, and also what his is doing to the brim. More proof the Raiders fedora was turned.

My added observation is that during that time was that hats also slowly stopped being an item of useable and useful clothing (sun blocker/rain blocker etc.) and turned into much more of an item of added fashion.

Let's face it, a 'stingy' brim offers no protection from anything what so ever.

Men eventually began to say 'why bother?', and only wore them when it rained....and eventually not at all!

I have that same observation. Hats that had seemed so..... what term am I looking for? Hats that seemed so....heck, ok, practical, suffered a big change in crown height and brim width. To the point that some of those hats had basically no brim to speak of. I think the folks wearing them were trying to make a statement of some sort, that wasn't a tradtional sort of statement. Let's just say I equate it with the droopy trousers you see today on kids. They are trousers, with pockets, but look at the way they are designed, mostly to be worn barely on the buttocks, with the crotch down to the knees. With the under drawers showing above the top. I would venture to say that if you went to buy yourself some new briitches, and all the stores sold was this type of trousers, we might all be wearing kilts!! Perhaps something like this occurred with hats. You went to buy a new fedora, and all they had were these funny little hats with no brim. And you did not want to look ludicrous. So, you quit wearing hats.

I talked to a local Men's Store owner before he closed shop here a few years ago. He still sold a few hats. He loved to talk about the old days, and how many hats he would order each season. He blamed JFK for the demise of the dress hat. And, his account does lend validity to the theory that JFK was at least part of the reason of America becoming a hatless nation. He told me that a year or so after JFK was elected, he saw an unheard of drop in hat sales. And, the next year was worse....and his sales never came back. The only hats he was selling, were bought by a few older gentlemen, primarily black gentlemen. So, he adjusted his inventory to have on hand what they liked. And it wasn't what he had generally carried, in so far as style of hat. And right before he closed his very old business, he was still selling a few dozen hats a year to mostly black gentlemen. So, no wonder he was greatly surprised when I first asked him to source me an Indy fedora, and had a photo in my hand of the hat, to show him. Me wanting to buy a hat, made us instant friends, and he would tell me stories of the old days, and hats. Yep, as far as he was concerned it was JFK who did it. But I think it was more complicated than just that, personally. But, JFK, may have nailed that final nail in the coffin. Fedora

Fedora wrote: I would venture to say that if you went to buy yourself some new briitches, and all the stores sold was this type of trousers, we might all be wearing kilts!!

And the problem with that is...?

ah but many men do continue to wear hats, just not ones as presentable as a Fedora.

Also, Frank Sinatra, who was very close to JFK, stopped wearing hats about this time. In the 60's the Rat Pack were still the "hot commodore" of the era and I believe that I had read somewhere that once Kennedy started with the hat-less look, Sinatra followed suit and so did the rest. Sinatra still wore them from time to time, but the style just fizzled. Another example of how celebrities have so much influence in culture and society.

Can we credit the rat pack with the stingy brim?

In my opinion, more-or-less. Sinatra and Dean Martin wore wide brims in the 40's and 50's, Sinatra wore shorter brims towards the beginning of the end, I think due to his facial size and shape. He was skinny, I think the wider brims would have made him goofy looking, hence why he chose to prefer bow-ties to neckties. Sinatra was VERY particular in his hats as well of conscientious of style and I highly doubt He would allow himself to be seen with something that would contradict his cool persona.




PS: There is ONE public image in which I question his judgement, but I let it slide because it didn't come out about 1974 - and that his the album cover to "Some Nice Things I've Missed" in which he wears a fishing cap

Let's face it, by the '70's even decent stingy brims were getting tough to locate.

Regards! Michaelson

And the problem with that is...?

None at all!! I wear mine when I can. Real airy in the summer down south. Hey Bink, I think a good set of kilts would really set off that fez!

On JFK, they ran a few programs about him on the History Channel recently. One video showed him with a fedora(I think) in his hand. So, apparently he did own at least one dress hat. And had it in hand instead of on his head in this film short I saw. But, unlike Ike and the guys before him, he did not wear one regularly, in public.

The Beatles hit our shores in this same time frame. And it was all about the hair!! This probably did not help hat sales among the younger crowd. Our hair became our crowing glory, instead of a nice hat. We got rid of the Vitalis and Brylcreme, and went with a dry hair style about this same time. If you used the stuff at my school, you were called a greaser. An insult at the time. Fedora

He was skinny, I think the wider brims would have made him goofy looking,

Not sure about that. I liked Bogey's choice of hat style myself. Not alot of brim, but enough, and I read where he wore his own hats in a lot of his films. He must have been real picky about his hats. And, I feel he had great tastes in what style he chose to wear. I really can't say the same about Frank S. and his Ratpack. But, they were creating their own image I guess. But, I never liked their choice of hats. But, that's just me. Some on another site, love this style of hat. Just not my own cup of tea. Variety is the spice of life though. Plenty of room for all styles of hats. Even if some of those hats look comedic to me personally. And I have a great sense of humor. Fedora

Fedora wrote:

And the problem with that is...?

None at all!! I wear mine when I can. Real airy in the summer down south. Hey Bink, I think a good set of kilts would really set off that fez!

...........

I think we've seen photos of bink in a kilt here. What kilt do you wear?

scottyrocks6 wrote:

WConly wrote:

Michaelson wrote:That's true. In 10 short years the car companies went from bragging about their overhead 'hat' room of their cars (a BIG selling point in 1950 Plymouth/Dodge ads, and literally catering to men and women and their headwear) to no head room what so ever!

Regards! Michaelson

How true. You can ask my wife...when I am looking at cars for potential purchase, the first thing I am concerned with is 'hat room.' That is probably why I drive Jeeps! W>

If anyone wants a car (not a truck) with lots of head (hat) room, take a sit in a MINI Cooper.

I second this. i have a mini and there is loads of head room. though, i find driving while wearing a wide brimmed hat difficult because the head rest gets in the way.

RCSignals wrote:

Fedora wrote:

And the problem with that is...?

None at all!! I wear mine when I can. Real airy in the summer down south. Hey Bink, I think a good set of kilts would really set off that fez!

...........

I think we've seen photos of bink in a kilt here. What kilt do you wear?

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36216&hilit=kilt

WalkingEye wrote:i find driving while wearing a wide brimmed hat difficult because the head rest gets in the way.

Good point! These headrest seats showed up around 1970, then became mandatory.

Yes that's Bink and his kilt I was referring to. I suppose it's just the angle of the photos but there should be some skin between the top of his hose and bottom of his kilt.

I'm impressed Bink nows when St Andrew's day is!

Now Fedora mentioned having one too.....


(Given Indy's Scottish heritage I'm sure this is all relevant)

Older Minis have plenty of headroom for Fedoras too. Modern Mustangs do as well.

WalkingEye wrote:

scottyrocks6 wrote:
If anyone wants a car (not a truck) with lots of head (hat) room, take a sit in a MINI Cooper.

I second this. i have a mini and there is loads of head room. though, i find driving while wearing a wide brimmed hat difficult because the head rest gets in the way.

Maybe not the smartest thing in the world to do, but I removed the driver's headrest just for that reason.

WalkingEye wrote:i find driving while wearing a wide brimmed hat difficult because the head rest gets in the way.

Flip the brim up, helps a lot.

What!? You wanna see me in my kilt?? Ain't gonna happen. I am a closet kilt wearer! I put in on in my closet,and then stay there. And I ain't coming out of the closet!! I prefer to wear brogans or boon dockers with mine though, and no socks. So my hairy legs show. Otherwise the mice in my closet may think I am a girl!!

Seriously. I dont' own a set of kilts. I was joking. But, I would not be afraid to do so. Real secure with my own masculinity. And I always thought they looked pretty cool on the Scots. But, I would need a set of bagpipes to go with it. And that beret looking cap. And a big sword. In case anyone laughed. Off with their heads! Fedora

Fedora wrote:But, I would need a set of bagpipes to go with it. And that beret looking cap. And a big sword. In case anyone laughed. Off with their heads! Fedora

Dave

It's a common misconception that bagpipes are a requirement when wearing a Kilt.

I think you could get away wearing a fedora though, Fedora