Club Obi Wan

Guys, I just got my Nowak Goat recently. As usual fit and overall workmanship is superb!
Couple questions:

First, there are areas on my jacket--esp. the sleeves-- which are extremely grainy (see pic below)...almost a "cobblestone" effect...Is this normal on the Nowak Goat? (The pics I saw on other Nowaks Goats seem to indicate the leather as being much smoother).

MOD EDIT: oversized pictures



Secondly, it appears that on the right upper sleeve, there seems to be a small "burn-through" on the leather (see pic below).....it's not a hole but I'm afraid it will become one at a later time. Is this a serious defect that needs to be addressed now?

Looks like goat hide I'm familiar with albeit somewhat more pebbly than my goat jacket from Tony but right in line with some samples he's sent me of his other offerings.

As for the blemish it seems tiny and not somthing I'd be concerned about. It seems like it could be a natural "range mark" and I don't see it getting bigger.

But I must ask, did you first contact Tony? If you have a concern why not let him know first and see what he says?

I wouldn't worry about the pebbling effect. I think Tony likes to mix/match grains somewhat (at least on my jackets). It takes some getting used to after dealing with mainly smooth leather but I have really come to like the contrast.

I had a few small marks on my ToD goat that was from a batch of 15 year old leather. I showed it to Tony when I saw him in Ohio and he told me nothing to worry about so I never did. I have some smooth goat and grainy goat. I quess it just depends on the animal.

Have you talked to Tony about it?

The pictures look fine to me.

Mine's getting more pronounced, but looks similar. But I love it!

THAT'S RIGHT PETE . WHY DIDN'T YOU TALK TO TONY BECAUSE HE IS THE ONE WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING HE DOES . HELLO PETE THIS IS TONY . I WILL CALL YOU TOMORROW TO TALK ABOUT YOUR JACKET . KIND REGARDS TONY NOWAK !!! DON'T WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING IN THE MEANTIME !!

Tony, you're the greatest. I love that your keyboard only types in caps!

Shane

Nothing to worry PSBIndy.
My new nowak goat looks about quite the same as yours. Some parts on my jacket are also more grainy then others.
All that just adds character to the jacket and be happy that the leather didn't came totally smooth.
I have a small "burn-through" on my Happy Cow ToD jacket but this doesn't matter and won't effect the durability.

Regards

Gerald

I agree - my Nowak New Goat is just as pebbly if not more so in some areas, and it looks great! Character right out of the canvas bag. I also have a few lumps and spots on mine too. I love em. Makes it looks like it is one of a kind and seasoned.

I did notice that the right shoulder top of my jacket has thinner leather than the rest of the jacket. I was concerned for a bit about durability, but now I think, if it passed muster with Tony before it went out the door it must be ok!

Some pictures:

For what it's worth, I absolutely love the pebbly grain of that jacket! I wish my G&B had a more visible grain like that.

My 'Holy Goat' jacket has smoth parts combined with others that show a lot of texture. In my oppinion that's the perfect look for a leather jacket. As I stated somewhere before, this is the best hide I have ever had in my hands. Yours looks fantastic too, PSB. I wouldn't worry about it's quality: IMHO, a Nowak jacket is always a guarantee of the best of all qualities.
Regards,
Rask

Thanks for the reassurance guys.

Clutters, I also noticed, too, that on the top of the shoulders, the goat skin is extremely thin (almost paper thin) compared to the rest of the jacket......but shouldn't be a problem, right?

PSB, since the thread is already here, can we see a photo of the shoulder area you describe?

PS - I REALLY like all the belmishes on my jackets (Nowak and other's) and your spot is pretty small to worry over.

McFly wrote: Tony, you're the greatest. I love that your keyboard only types in caps!

Shane

Tony lives his life and makes his jacket in ALL CAPS also.............

Raider S wrote:PSB, since the thread is already here, can we see a photo of the shoulder area you describe?

PS - I REALLY like all the belmishes on my jackets (Nowak and other's) and your spot is pretty small to worry over.

I'll try to take a photo tonight after work.


I just hope an eagle or a hawk with sharp claws doesn't land on the shoulder area!

PSBIndy wrote:

Raider S wrote:PSB, since the thread is already here, can we see a photo of the shoulder area you describe?

PS - I REALLY like all the belmishes on my jackets (Nowak and other's) and your spot is pretty small to worry over.

I'll try to take a photo tonight after work.


I just hope an eagle or a hawk with sharp claws doesn't land on the shoulder area!

Or the usual.... a cat.

PSBIndy wrote:

Raider S wrote:PSB, since the thread is already here, can we see a photo of the shoulder area you describe?

PS - I REALLY like all the belmishes on my jackets (Nowak and other's) and your spot is pretty small to worry over.

I'll try to take a photo tonight after work.


I just hope an eagle or a hawk with sharp claws doesn't land on the shoulder area!

Here's a photo of the shoulder on mine (which I bunched up before the shot). Because your jacket also has the same thinness of leather on the shoulders PSB then you shouldn't be worried, because it means that it must be deliberate and there must be a reason for it (maybe to get the drape right?). And goat is a tough leather. But let me know what Tony says about it!


The New Nowak Goatskin is the best leather I have seen from Tony.

Great looking jacket Clutters.

Is it the 'Nowak Goat'?

The thing people need to remember is leather is a natural product with natural variations, including scars, differing thickness areas, etc.
If it doesn't have variations it's been processed by man somehow to make it uniform, and those types of leathers are usually cheap, bonded leather, stamped leather, etc.

RCSignals wrote:Great looking jacket Clutters.

Is it the 'Nowak Goat'?

The thing people need to remember is leather is a natural product with natural variations, including scars, differing thickness areas, etc.
If it doesn't have variations it's been processed by man somehow to make it uniform, and those types of leathers are usually cheap, bonded leather, stamped leather, etc.

Yep - it is the "Nowak New Goat" and I chose it because I specifically wanted a grainy textured and uneven leather. I was set to go with the 747, but I changed my mind when I saw Orb's jacket. This goatskin has great durability; you can stretch it out a lot, get a lighter red colour from it, but a few minutes later it will have snapped back into shape and the original darker colour.

(Mods: picture sizes reduced, apologies.)

Beautiful jacket, Clutters. Could you show us some more pictures?
regards,
Rask

Raskolnikov wrote:Beautiful jacket, Clutters. Could you show us some more pictures?
regards,
Rask

Thanks for the kind words - your Holy Goat Nowak was the reason I decided to get a Nowak in the first place! I owe you some photos for that, will get some of me wearing it shortly.

Very, very expensive leather can have been specifically selected to use JUST the smoothest parts of the leather. It is a fallacy that you MUST have some areas of 'jerky' in a jacket to be some sort of identifier of superior quality leather. many makers will cut away all the uneven parts or put them to unobtrusive areas, this is the skill of an experienced cutter.

Cheaper smooth leather may have been 'plated'. Basically ironed under high heat and pressure to make it smoother, it may also have had a new regular grain embossed on it. It makes it cheaper but it still doesn't make it bonded leather. That is made from chips of leather pressed together in a substrate.

Whilst it is true that an clear analine finish will reveal all of it's natural marks and variations, the tannery will specifically try to use the smoothest and least damaged skins to make these leathers.

To the tanneries and virtuallyeveryone in the leather trade even regular skins equals good!

The most natural and least processed BUT unscarred and naturally grained is the best leather.

Then there are various grades of processing, including buffing, plating, splitting spraying and all sorts of treatments, it's idiotic to bundle them all together. With that thinking NO kind of tanning that improves the skin is 'good'.

Clutters wrote:

Raskolnikov wrote:Beautiful jacket, Clutters. Could you show us some more pictures?
regards,
Rask

Thanks for the kind words - your Holy Goat Nowak was the reason I decided to get a Nowak in the first place! I owe you some photos for that, will get some of me wearing it shortly.

Kt Templar wrote:Very, very expensive leather can have been specifically selected to use JUST the smoothest parts of the leather. It is a fallacy that you MUST have some areas of 'jerky' in a jacket to be some sort of identifier of superior quality leather. many makers will cut away all the uneven parts or put them to unobtrusive areas, this is the skill of an experienced cutter.

Cheaper smooth leather may have been 'plated'. Basically ironed under high heat and pressure to make it smoother, it may also have had a new regular grain embossed on it. It makes it cheaper but it still doesn't make it bonded leather. That is made from chips of leather pressed together in a substrate.

Whilst it is true that an clear analine finish will reveal all of it's natural marks and variations, the tannery will specifically try to use the smoothest and least damaged skins to make these leathers.

To the tanneries and virtuallyeveryone in the leather trade even regular skins equals good!

The most natural and least processed BUT unscarred and naturally grained is the best leather.

Then there are various grades of processing, including buffing, plating, splitting spraying and all sorts of treatments, it's idiotic to bundle them all together. With that thinking NO kind of tanning that improves the skin is 'good'.

...and then there is the leather, like the 'Nowak goat' that is specially selected and processed and 'bundled together' for specific colour, grainy-ness, texture, soft feel and other qualities for a specific purpose, such as the Raiders jacket.

Absolute smooth leather is not necessarily the most expensive leather and often although not always comes from younger animals or specific animals such as lamb skins etc.

Still it is a natural material and will have variations unless processed by man not to, ironed, stamped, etc,

Tony's goat sounds like the Wested goat I've seen and have. Some bits smooth some grainy. In fact that's goat jackets I've seen full stop - including my G&B. Not a problem.

CM wrote:Tony's goat sounds like the Wested goat I've seen and have. Some bits smooth some grainy. In fact that's goat jackets I've seen full stop - including my G&B. Not a problem.

I have owned a Wested Washed Goat and although this leather is durable and interesting, I believe the Nowak New Goat is superior (hence no doubt, the extra price). NNG has more depth and range of colour, better texture and a more durable "stretchy" quality. It also has "dinosaur hide" areas that resemble a striated shrunken lamb leather ie: a great Raiders leather.

CM, I would love to see your G&B, got any photos?

This goat looks nice, it looks like it's had a pigmented surface treatment like 95% of leather does. The little spot is a flaw. But it is a natural product so if it is not in an highly visible place like on the chest then it's probably acceptable. The jacket will pick up many more marks as it gets worn and broken in! Of course one wonders what the goat was smoking...

I suppose it all comes down to personal taste. For me, I prefer grain over smooth, uniform leather.

Kt Templar wrote:This goat looks nice, it looks like it's had a pigmented surface treatment like 95% of leather does. ........

That would be a guess on your part. It's more of an aniline or semi-aniline. Colour changes when stretched, and if you lightly scratch the surface it changes colour slightly, but darkens again easily. It was designed for a specific under colour when distressed. It will not just show grey as an under colour as some other leathers with just a top treatment do.
It's not a cheaper pigmented surface treatment that feels like plastic.

RCSignals wrote:

Kt Templar wrote:This goat looks nice, it looks like it's had a pigmented surface treatment like 95% of leather does. ........

That would be a guess on your part. It's more of an aniline or semi-aniline. Colour changes when stretched, and if you lightly scratch the surface it changes colour slightly, but darkens again easily. It was designed for a specific under colour when distressed. It will not just show grey as an under colour as some other leathers with just a top treatment do.
It's not a cheaper pigmented surface treatment that feels like plastic.

Not saying that surface pigmented leather is bad, it is the majority of leather out there. US Wings, Wested and Gibson and Barnes all use it in some jackets. Some war time leather was really heavily pigmented and re pigmented by the quartermaster between issuings. (ie painted!). It's just another type of leather.

The leather you describe sounds like a semi aniline it could also could sound like an oil pull. All legitimate leathers.

Yeah it's not pigmented. Some later WW2 A-2s were pigmented, a good example of the leather might the current Lost worlds A-2's
The whole quartermaster refinishing leather is overblown today, but after the war certainly a lot of A-2s were redyed and even painted mostly by individuals. Some of the leather was that way straight from the jacket manufactures (painted type finish), at least on later production jackets.

That goat isn't an oil pull, not that oil pull would be bad.

Superb jacket

still hesitant between 747 and goat

I have owned a Wested Washed Goat and although this leather is durable and interesting, I believe the Nowak New Goat is superior (hence no doubt, the extra price). NNG has more depth and range of colour, better texture and a more durable "stretchy" quality. It also has "dinosaur hide" areas that resemble a striated shrunken lamb leather ie: a great Raiders leather.

Is it heavier than your Wash goat ?
Raskolnikov estimate his about 2 kg
On some pics it looks shyny, on some others mat
I don't know if you have ever seen Wested soft goat, is it somehow similar ?

While leather does vary naturally, I absolutely expect that an entire garment will have similar (not "identical") texture and thickness of leather, achieved not necessarily by "processing" the leather, but by carefully selecting pieces of leather with similar texture, grain and thickness to be used together.

I don't expect the absolute uniformity such as is found in vinyl or pvc, but I do expect that the texture will not vary to a significant degree on the same garment.
If a garment has significant variation in texture, this says to me that perhaps a little too much of the same animal was used in making that particular garment, or conversely, that not enough attention was given to the actual selection of the leather used to make that particular garment.

My very first leather jacket was from Montgomery Wards, nicely made, and good workmanship throughout, except for the left sleeve, which had an entirely different texture than the rest of the jacket. While most of the jacket had a nice "hand", the leather in that sleeve felt "puffy" (for lack of a better term), as if it had been tanned by a different process, or as if it were an entirely different kind of leather.

This completely ruined the jacket for me, making it feel cheap and of low quality, and I ended up selling it to a friend, who didn't mind, at much less than the new price.

Since then, I've owned quite a number of leather jackets and coats, with a much more reasonable uniformity of grain, and this is one of the primary inspections I give a new jacket before purchase.

Just as one example, my Schott motorcycle and flight jackets are all made of naked cowhide with no artificial texture whatsoever. While there is enough difference in grain to show that they are made of genuine leather, it all looks like the SAME kind of leather, from the SAME part of the animal. Big thumbs up to Schott for taking the time to match their leather this well.

I personally wouldn't accept a serious variance of grain, texture, or thickness on a mass produced leather jacket, and certainly not on a custom one.

ron521 wrote:I personally wouldn't accept a serious variance of grain, texture, or thickness on a mass produced leather jacket, and certainly not on a custom one.

You do realise that the actual Raiders jackets have, at least in the eyes of many, a wide variety of grain that is nowhere near uniform do you?

On any other jacket I would agree with you, but I like the differences in grain on my TN raiders

Regards, Geert

gwyddion wrote:

ron521 wrote:I personally wouldn't accept a serious variance of grain, texture, or thickness on a mass produced leather jacket, and certainly not on a custom one.

You do realise that the actual Raiders jackets have, at least in the eyes of many, a wide variety of grain that is nowhere near uniform do you?

On any other jacket I would agree with you, but I like the differences in grain on my TN raiders

Regards, Geert

Correct Geert, and that is how TN selects the leather for this jacket. I know he spends time personally selecting and deciding which piece will be used where on a jacket. Particularly for the Shrunken lamb.
This is a special case jacket, not a fashion jacket or Motorcycle jacket (of which many today tend to be quite smooth leather and often used simply as a fashion jacket). I suppose it's somewhat natural for people to want everything to be identical and 'perfect' in their eyes, that is not the nature of natural leather however. This is the reason many leather jacket (and other leather goods) makers include a statement about leather having natural various and these not being 'flaws'
In the case of A-2 jackets, people go out of their way these days for ones that show grain, texture and variations, the more grain and jerky bits the better for the most part, whether horse hide or goat.

The actual movie jackets may indeed have had significant variation in texture. They were, after all, made to be "disposable", so that as one was destroyed during filming, another might be used in it's place. You can watch the films and, if you look closely, note scenes where the jacket doesn't quite match the jacket in the previous scene.
Also, the non-uniform grain adds to the "aged, weathered and worn" look which they were shooting for.
The jackets used in the film weren't made to be sold, and so probably have all kinds of details which would be commercially unacceptable.
If I wear a "Raiders" jacket, I'm not trying to BE Indiana Jones or recreate his image with full screen accuracy (except perhaps at a Halloween costume party), I just like the general style of the garment.
I'd like a jacket BETTER than what Indy wore in the films.
For me, "Better" = uniform thickness and grain, no artificial distressing or aging. I can "age" the jacket just fine by actually wearing it.
However, if the variable texture is part of a particular look which someone is trying for, then it simply becomes a matter of personal preference. What I would see as a "defect" becomes an asset in someone elses eyes.

ron521 wrote:The actual movie jackets may indeed have had significant variation in texture. They were, after all, made to be "disposable", so that as one was destroyed during filming, another might be used in it's place. You can watch the films and, if you look closely, note scenes where the jacket doesn't quite match the jacket in the previous scene.
Also, the non-uniform grain adds to the "aged, weathered and worn" look which they were shooting for.
The jackets used in the film weren't made to be sold, and so probably have all kinds of details which would be commercially unacceptable.
If I wear a "Raiders" jacket, I'm not trying to BE Indiana Jones or recreate his image with full screen accuracy (except perhaps at a Halloween costume party), I just like the general style of the garment.
I'd like a jacket BETTER than what Indy wore in the films.
For me, "Better" = uniform thickness and grain, no artificial distressing or aging. I can "age" the jacket just fine by actually wearing it.
However, if the variable texture is part of a particular look which someone is trying for, then it simply becomes a matter of personal preference. What I would see as a "defect" becomes an asset in someone elses eyes.

....and that is exactly how TN makes the jackets. 'better' and 'stronger' with superior construction but with the correct colour and look. There is nothing inferior about the skins and hides he uses.
If you wanted one slick smooth he would accommodate you.

Yes he would. He's all about giving people exactly the jacket they want.

Regards, Geert

RCSignals wrote: ....and that is exactly how TN makes the jackets. 'better' and 'stronger' with superior construction but with the correct colour and look. There is nothing inferior about the skins and hides he uses.
If you wanted one slick smooth he would accommodate you.

I used to think my Wested horsehide was the bees knees and then sat in Tony's shop surrounded by all the different leather, that made my jacket feel like plastic. Funny, how the texture and varying colour makes me feel like a smooth, non-varying skin is artificial! Anyways, the nice thing about preferring a smooth jacket and not being caught up in SA details is there are a ton of offerings, all better priced than Tony's. Of course, I think most of the TN owners go to Tony because he builds something that isn't as cookie cut, and the quirkiness of the cut, and interesting leathers are all part of the "event".

I think people go to Tony for a well made, true custom, true craftsmanship, accurate jackets, selection and customer service.
His prices are higher than what many people are used to for Indiana Jones jackets, but really not too much more than some of the offerings we see here. In reality his prices in the custom leather jacket world are quite reasonable once one starts looking. People have paid far more for a CS jacket or Mutt jacket from Belstaff (and those aren't even custom sized), and the other day on an Internet site I found another jacket seller with a not too great looking I-J style jacket they were very proud of priced at $1750. I didn't even bother to bookmark the site. Check the prices of some of the other movie jacket replicas out there, you'll find many priced at and higher than TN jackets. Same goes for a decent A-2 style jacket. The funny thing is when reading about those other jackets people don't seem to bat an eye when talking the prices, as they do when talking about a TN jacket. The discussion in this thread is an example

Last week I went into a very, very well known jacket store and, yes, they had really nice jackets, but the leathers they used couldn't stand the comparison with a Nowak. Tony's jackets are always very rich in shades, tough and full of character. They always have a unique personality.

It boggles my mind how anyone could look at a factory made Belstaff in standard set sizings at 2-3 times the price and say, "yeah, I'll buy that" over getting a better quality custom made version of the same style jacket from original creator/maker. I had Crisman's ROLA by TN and it was by far the best of the breed, and the only reason I passed it on was so that I could get another one done by Tony exactly for me from the get go as far as sizing. And this Nowak Goat is the perfect way to go for me this time around. Almost went for the 747 but I have plenty of Cow hides around, the Shrunken Lamb is great too, but I just think this Goat looks the correct thickness and grainyness to me as an overall representation of all the jackets used throughout Raiders.

theman wrote:It boggles my mind how anyone could look at a factory made Belstaff in standard set sizings at 2-3 times the price and say, "yeah, I'll buy that" over getting a better quality custom made version of the same style jacket from original creator/maker. ...........

Isn't that the truth.

The Nowak goat is very nice stuff, he did a great job in getting it developed just so.
I'd like to see someone have a ToD made in it.

Love the ToD, if it weren't for the child-sized hand entry pockets' uselessness... I'm stuck on the Raiders for some reason as my totally preferred details in an Indy jacket, although if I come across a CS TN in HF size again for a good price I probably won't be able to resist snagging it.

I know exactly what you mean about the ToD pocket size. There is just something about the jacket though. All the I-j jackets are different, this one just is special.
I suppose one could size up the pockets a little, it wouldn't take much. There is till an inside pocket and the top of the front pockets is usable, the side entry is just not good as hand-warmers, but I don't use the hand-warmer pockets of any of the I-j jackets for hands anyway.
The ToD front pockets are A-2 sized, and of course original A-2s don't have hand-warmers...no wonder.
the CS is a great jacket. The price from TN is good too, not too different from your own jacket offering prices.

I do not own a TONY yet, but from all your pitcures and comments, they really are the best looking jackets I have seen. I gotta take the plunge! I like the texture, makes it unique. Battle scars as my Dad would say! Take care

theman wrote:...I just think this Goat looks the correct thickness and grainyness to me as an overall representation of all the jackets used throughout Raiders.

You bet. My Nowak New Goat has exactly the same texture and colour as seen right here:


End your jacket quest - buy a Nowak New Goat Raiders jacket.

Clutters wrote:

theman wrote:...I just think this Goat looks the correct thickness and grainyness to me as an overall representation of all the jackets used throughout Raiders.

You bet. My Nowak New Goat has exactly the same texture and colour as seen right here:

Yep. I totally agree with this. Although mine is made from a different kind of goat, it shares the same visual qualities. I think that Tony only chooses hides that really look the part.

I think it's huge that so many people are now admitting they see grainy leather in the photos of the Raiders jacket and not just wire brush scratch marks.

and yes, Tony chooses hides that closely resemble what he had. The Premiere being his original shrunken lamb.