Club Obi Wan

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:31 pm**

I am looking into some leathers. and what better place to ask about leather then here at home.

so, do people have any experience with 'aniline leathers'? cowhide. horse. etc

werent some bomber jackets and A2's made out of this leather?

is it durable?

does it fade much over the years when caught in the sun.

I think I read some were that aniline leather is one of the most expensive leather around.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:53 pm**

I've seen some jackets around being offered in this "exclusive" leather (e.g. the "Barnstormer" - WWI flight jacket), but I'd be careful, 'cause I just read, that anilin-leather is not any longer ahead the list of recommended leather colours, since it's considered a carcinogen contact poison now ... but I'm interested in any of your experiences around here, too!

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:06 pm**

aniline is a dye, usually with some transparency, and can be used for colouring many things, wood for example. It's composition may vary. I'm not sure what 'aniline leather' is unless it's just aniline dyed. I think some of TNs offerings have an aniline finish as opposed to a painted on or bonded vinyl type finish.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:16 pm**

yes. I think that aniline skin is just a dye used.

like this original jacket from the 40's

An original Rough Wear Clothing Co. "1401" A-2 Jacket from a 1941 Army Air Corps contract.
The finish is an aniline dye of the lighter russet brown color commonly found on A-2's of this contract. Note the
mottled wear on this A-2, an occurrence typically associated with leather that has been aniline
dyed or lightly spray dyed. The world-famous film actor, James Stewart, wore a Rough Wear A-2 of the
1401 contract during his USAAF service in WWII. Stewart's A-2 is displayed at the USAF museum in Dayton, Ohio.
(Gary Eastman - Eastman Leather Clothing)

Im thinking real life CS look. (maby LC too if you give the edges a whipe over with sandpaper to get the LC look

)

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:29 pm**

The G&B Expedition is made of "semi-aniline" leather, and so are many of the A2 jackets made by G&B, so their website might be another place for at least some info on the topic: http://www.flightsuits.com/index.php?id=43 So the reports here about the Expedition jacket might help answer the durability question. I've only had mine for about a week, so I can't personally speak on the durability yet.

Eric, I don't know if this really answers any of your questions, but I hope it's of some use.

Best wishes,
Luke

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:42 pm**

Indiana Holt wrote:.

Im thinking real life CS look. (maby LC too if you give the edges a whipe over with sandpaper to get the LC look )

What project are you working on now?

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:59 pm**

nothing special. just wondering about the aniline leather.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:35 pm**

Analine fades fast and shows wear readily - especially on elbows, pocket flaps and sleave ends. It was the leather colouring process that was used in the days of Indy - so his real world jacket would have had wear featuring the characteristics of an analine process. Like that old A2 Holt showed. IMO the movie jacket wear - espicailly in LC and ToD is a coarse attempt at copying the look.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:58 pm**

oh? so this 'aniline' way of tanning a jacket would be like they did in the Indy time? the 30/40's

cool.

I personally think that the wear on the jacket above looks really sweet. so if aniline leather from today will have just alittle of that look after many years of use? I could really consider this type of leather on a jacket in the nearest future. even though I keep saying I dont like ''distressed leathers''

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:59 pm**

Although from period photographs i've seen A-2 jackets did not fade all that fast but did show wear spots.
Overall they retained their colour, and some originals still do. I wonder a bit about the few that look as faded as the one Holt pictured. I'm sure more than a few are very well disguised reproductions. Treatment with acetone will make one look like that quickly.
A lot of time, and use of original jackets, has past since the end of WW2 of course, but during the war the jackets did get a good work out.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:03 pm**

yeah I bet. the jackets were on the person almost 24/7. so to get the really hard 'natural' wear they had on their jackets, we would have to work VERY hard to get to that point I think. you dont get that worn in, aged / distressed look they had on their jacket just by wearing it day to day.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:37 pm**

Just clarifying...

aniline has nothing to do with tanning; that's generally done using chemicals as in "chrome-tanned" or natural barks and such as in "vegetable-tanned".

Aniline is the dyeing of the leather after tanning. Some are vat dyed, some are spray finishes. What's fun with the old A-2s is it wasn't unusual for them to be returned to the quartermaster who had them re-sprayed to freshen them up for the next guy. You can see different colors between the inside of pockets and the outside surface sometimes.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:48 pm**

I think a lot of the A-2 redying was done post war. I can't see it being a priority for the quartermaster, especially at war time

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:53 pm**

There were a lot of A-2s issued in peace times... they started in about 1932 or so. You generally didn't get to keep your military stuff. There are pretty good records of the re-dying during the war as well. Cheaper than making new ones.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:41 am**

They made more than they could issue, even though the last made were delivered about 1943 after they didn't renew contracts in 1942. They were only issued to aircrew.
There is a lot of misinformation on the internet, most of it regurgitated over many sites.
Many of these jackets were kept by individuals. Yes many were issued and reissued as well.
I can see pre war peace time jackets perhaps being spray dyed if they needed it, during the war it would not be a priority, and during the war a worn look jacket was desirable.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:47 am**

Assuming this is an accurate statement, then the U.S. Navy's M-422A jackets from at least 1942 (if not earlier) would be an example of a jacket from this time period that used aniline-dyed leather:

Gibson & Barnes makes a faithful reproduction of the M-422A, by using the same drum-dyed, semi-aniline, light seal brown goatskin leather.

http://www.flightsuits.com/index.php?id ... prod_id=52

P.S. I don't mean to sound like a Gibson & Barnes commercial--I just happened to read through their catalog when I received my Expedition and remember seeing a lot of mention of the term "aniline."

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:49 am**

I'm not sure exactly what 'semi-aniline' is, but no doubt they are correct. I wonder if it is related to chrome tanning. Chrome tanning became common for these military use hides in the late 30's early 40's.
The M-422 goes back to the 30's like the A-2.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:24 am**

RCSignals wrote:I'm not sure exactly what 'semi-aniline' is, but no doubt they are correct.

The link I gave in the first post in this thread is a link to a leather terminology page at G&B. The definition they give of "semi-aniline" is the following:

Semi-aniline – Aniline dyed leather topped with a very light coat of pigment and finish to even out the color and increase durability.

For aniline:

Aniline – Leather dyed with transparent aniline dyes to produce a beautiful transparent finish and suppleness. No pigment is used, but a light finish may be applied to color or protect the leather.

There are a lot of other useful definitions on the page. It also lists leather tanning steps (the only step I've had personal experience with is right before the first--skinning, salting, and carefully rolling up the cowhide). Here again is the link--it's worth a look:
http://www.flightsuits.com/index.php?id=43

Best wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:47 am**

just found this

What is Pure Aniline Leather?
Pure Aniline is top grain leather that is dyed for color without any pigments applied. These hides will exhibit some natural characteristics such as healed scars, scratches, neck and belly wrinkles. Expect color variation from the swatch to the actual leather, due to the fact leather is a natural product and will absorb dye differently within the hide and from hide to hide. This leather will develop a rich patina over time and will fade with prolonged exposure to sunlight.

What is Protected Aniline Leather?
Protected aniline leather is a top grain leather that is dyed for color and then receives pigment to ensure color consistency. Without pigment a protected leather is not color consistent. The pigment also ensures fade resistance and helps the leather wear over time. A clear water based topcoat is applied for additional protection. The natural imperfections of the hide are also less noticeable. Hides average 50-55 square feet. Protected Aniline Leathers are easy to maintain and have maximum resistance to wear, soiling, and fading from light.

What is Semi-Aniline Leather?
Semi-Aniline leather is pure aniline leather that has a small amount of pigment or clear finish thus allowing the natural characteristics of the hide to still show through while offering some of the benefits of color consistency and increased wearability.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:49 pm**

Ah, good stuff Holt. Nice explanation. I wonder what the stuff is made of?

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:55 pm**

Based on that I'd say original A-2s were semi-aniline, and probably if he were 'real' Indys jacket would be too (except made from horse, cow or goat)

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:07 pm**

probably cow since that was the most common leather to use for 'regular' people. goat and horse was held aside for the millitary people.

so raiders . temple and LC was probably all cow ( if we are talking 'if Indys jacket was real')

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:45 pm**

Indiana Holt wrote:probably cow since that was the most common leather to use for 'regular' people. goat and horse was held aside for the millitary people.

so raiders . temple and LC was probably all cow ( if we are talking 'if Indys jacket was real')

I don't know. The Indy jacket is a common utility jacket - the movie design isn't period accurate, fairly 1980's looking, but clearly based on a 1930's-40's design - patch pockets, barrel cuffs, etc. Common.

I have seen many like these in goat and HH. All the catalogues for meanswear I have seen from the 1930's generally talk of HH for civilian wear.

Of course, Indy's jacket was probably meant to be 10 years old in Raiders, so that would make it a 1926 jacket. Again, I have seen HH - often pony - and goat. In that era, the design would have been more of an A1 look ( a 1920's jacket based on civilain jackets of the era). I have also seen a number of A1 inspired jackets with leather instead of wool knits.

Cheers

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:46 pm**

Indy's jacket (of course we're talking hypotheticals here) could have been horsehide, especially if he purchased it between the wars. Aero was offering their A-2s to the civilian market as late as May 1941 (Marc at Acme Depot has posted an ad image from Flying Magazine http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/index.shtml). Catalogs from the period offer jackets in horsehide.

Harry

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:55 pm**

I'd like to think a real Indy jacket his jacket custom made for him, even though it's a fairly common look. I also think he'd have gone through a few of them over time. (loss, wearing out beyond repair, etc)
The A-1 isn't necessarily a common design (I'm glad Indy's jacket doesn't duplicate it personally)

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:57 pm**

Yeah... none of those new-fangled zipper things on A-1s. Just trusty old buttons. (I like the look of A-1s, but buttons get to be a nuisance after a while.) Also, wool makes me itch, so the wool knit of the collar is hard to tolerate.

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:49 pm**

I have to bring this up again.

I have a question to those in the know.

aniline cowhide or leather in general...

is this skin tanned in any way? crhome or veg? or is it just a leather with an aniline dye?

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:34 pm**

Good question, but as far as I understand the leather can be tanned either way, the aniline is a finish.

I would think it may be best suited to veg tanned leather though.

Posted: **Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:43 am**

You understand right RC

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:29 pm**

thanx.

the aniline leather I was wondering about is a aniline dyed leather. no tanning. just a natural skin with an aniline dye.

so I guess the aniline cowhide I am looking into would work for a LC if it ages like this aniline dyed a-2. wouldnt you think?

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:10 pm**

Indiana Holt wrote:thanx.

the aniline leather I was wondering about is a aniline dyed leather. no tanning. just a natural skin with an aniline dye.

so I guess the aniline cowhide I am looking into would work for a LC if it ages like this aniline dyed a-2. wouldnt you think?

The leather has to be tanned in some way first. Has to be. So I'm wondering what you mean by natural skin.

I haven't seen the cowhide you refer to have I?

But just because it is aniline dyed doesn't necessarily mean it will distress like that A-2 (which if it is a real one is likely Horsehide)

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:16 pm**

here is that aniline cowhide.

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:24 am**

Hey Holt!

Could you post a "high res" picuture of that sample (with a coin for reference)?

Is it from wested?

Thanks!

Nico

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:24 am**

no I cant. this will just have to do. sorry..

yes, wested.

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:58 am**

_ wrote:Lol. It looks lime a great choice, my friend.

During WWII it was not uncommon for used jackets to be reissued. Remember production of A2's ceased in 1943. Reconditioning often included a fresh paint job for the jacket with a spray gun. Some very high end repros (bronco, etc) include the use of hh that has been painted as was the case with the original new issued hides.

thanx my friend.

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:45 pm**

On the Wested website is the worn look hide their new aniline hide? Anyone know?

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:49 pm**

no! worn look is the old predistressed cowhide.

aniline leather is the new leather they have sourced. its called ''aniline cow''

Posted: **Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:05 pm**

Thanks. I didn't see that in the drop down menu choice. I emailed them for a sample of Novapelle, and aniline.

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