Biting The Bullet...

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:01 pm

I have to ask. Why does everyone state that they are "biting the bullet" when they are buying a jacket? The term originated back in the pre-anesthesia days when doctors operated on patients. They would give them a bullet to bite on to help alleviate/divert pain. Traditionally, it means to do something that you really do not want to do, or to accept something difficult or unpleasant.

To say you are biting the bullet when buying something is actually kind of insulting to the manufacturer... you are calling the transaction difficult or unpleasant.

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:09 pm

Well, in that case it should be the wallet biting the bullet

Regards, Geert

TheExit148 · Post by **TheExit148** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:21 pm

I think when it came to buying a TN (at least for me), its just a lot of movie to spend, thats why I said that. Its like, I gotta do it at some point

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:28 pm

today It can mean to go ahead and do something. As in your analogy, a Dr would say to the patient 'bite the bullet' before he was about to operate.
It can also mean the last thing someone does, as in 'he bit the bullet' (passed away)

but it's usual meaning is to do something difficult or unpleasant (for some people that's just spending money)

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:49 pm

I think it's a perfect use for the expression. When it was leteral, you "bit the bullet" to endure the pain you had to experience in order to get something you wanted and/or needed (like surgery). I mean, it's not like saving your leg is a bad thing, right.

So, one might "bite the bullet" as in enduring the pain of paying the high cost, in order to get a TN jacket or AB deluxe, or expensive sports car, etc.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:06 am

I think of it more from the personal financial aspect of the transaction, vs. anything unpleasant from the retailer, especially this one. I will forgo buying other things, 'XYZ' that I potentially had already had set my sights on, for a time, so I can have this nice jacket. 'Opportunity costs' vs. deferred gratification. Slang sometimes diverts from its original meaning, or sometimes becomes diluted in the modern era, a modern spin, in effect.

CM · Post by CM » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:54 am

rick5150 wrote:I have to ask. Why does everyone state that they are "biting the bullet" when they are buying a jacket? The term originated back in the pre-anesthesia days when doctors operated on patients. They would give them a bullet to bite on to help alleviate/divert pain. Traditionally, it means to do something that you really do not want to do, or to accept something difficult or unpleasant.

To say you are biting the bullet when buying something is actually kind of insulting to the manufacturer... you are calling the transaction difficult or unpleasant.

The old expression also refers to that act of making a committment to have a surgical procedure which could save your life. Some pain for a big gain. This was the era when many soldiers/sailors opted to die in battle rather than be operated upon - so the expression well suits spending big and making the commitment to obtain a quality product. It's also an expression of faith, because we have so many jackets to choose from - so it is biting the bullet to make that difficult choice.

Raskolnikov · Post by **Raskolnikov** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:19 am

gwyddion wrote:Well, in that case it should be the wallet biting the bullet

Regards, Geert

Or just biting the wallet... Here in spain we have a saying when we spend more money than we should: 'my wallet is starting to ache'

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:45 am

CM wrote:Some pain for a big gain. This was the era when many soldiers/sailors opted to die in battle rather than be operated upon - so the expression well suits spending big and making the commitment to obtain a quality product.

Not just some pain for some gain. Excruciating pain. In essence, to say "I am biting the bullet and buying a Magnoli/Wested/Nowak jacket" is like saying to the vendor, "I will be going through excruciating pain when I buy a jacket from you." [Or funnier, "Buying a jacket from you is like having my leg sawed off with no anesthesia."]

Chewbacca Jones wrote:I think it's a perfect use for the expression. When it was leteral, you "bit the bullet" to endure the pain you had to experience in order to get something you wanted and/or needed (like surgery). I mean, it's not like saving your leg is a bad thing, right.

You guys are spinning an idiom to make it mean what you want, in the examples. I see your points (and understand them), but most everyone that gave an example diluted the level of pain involved and left out the negative connotations.

RC, interesting - I never heard this phrase to mean "passed away". Bit the dust, maybe... (see, even I can learn). Not that I even know what I am talking about. I just have a pet peeve about certain words and phrases. For example, the word "ironic" that is horribly misused; the word "literal" when it is used in a non-literal manner; the word "axe" when used in place of "ask," etc.

Gwyddion wrote:Well, in that case it should be the wallet biting the bullet

Now that is both accurate, and amusing at the same time.

None of this is even slightly relevant, but sometimes I get curious to the thought process behind the words.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:21 am

Tell us how you really feel, Rick.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:26 am

I understand where you're coming from Rick. Personally I like to use the phrase 'I'm dropping the hammer' in a purchase decision, as it's an old firearm analogy to finally deciding to fire a gun.

To a vendor it could also denote the fact you're willing to now take a financial gamble on their product. Instead of taking it as an insult, they should take it as a compliment, as you've publically stated you're willing to spend your hard earned cash on their product. Until you personally receive the ordered item in hand it's an essential 'unknown', and until proven wrong, it's a roll of the dice for the buyer no matter HOW good or strong the vendors reputation is. Until he's proven himself to the buyer, he's just another unknown entity.

Now, if the buyer is totally satisfied with his first purchase, and says he's biting the bullet on a second purchase, then you have a point there. The quality has been proven, but it still denotes it's a painful financial decision that the purchaser has made. It still does not reflect on the vendors product....but that buyers decision making process had been a difficult one.

Regards! Michaelson

donovan · Post by **donovan** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:08 am

buying an indy jacket can be somewhat of a minefield.i must have several indy jackets in my closet and each one was going to be "the" jacket until another different type/option came along.

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:09 pm

Michaelson wrote:To a vendor it could also denote the fact you're willing to now take a financial gamble on their product.

Understood and well written.

...but I still think it more accurately portrays going into a situation expecting it to be extremely unpleasant. Again, from reading everyone's answers I know that that is not what is meant.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:22 pm

You know what, I always thought that to Bite the Bullet referred to the paper gunpowder cartridge you had to bite to open before pouring the gunpowder in to reload a musket.

Biting a lead bullet seems a great way to destroy your teeth.

It still means something you have to do before doing something unpleasant, ie shooting and killing someone.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:30 pm

Michaelson wrote:I understand where you're coming from Rick. Personally I like to use the phrase 'I'm dropping the hammer' in a purchase decision, as it's an old firearm analogy to finally deciding to fire a gun.

.........

The dropping the hammer phrase also applies to the act of an auctioneer. The final bidder. Translating to making one's decision finally.

dropping the hammer related to fire arms can also relate to the act of not firing the weapon. Moving the hammer from the ready to fire position to a safe position. It's one of those odd double meaning phrases. 'Pulling the trigger' on the other hand.......

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:32 pm

rick5150 wrote:.............

...but I still think it more accurately portrays going into a situation expecting it to be extremely unpleasant. Again, from reading everyone's answers I know that that is not what is meant.

time changes phrases precise and original meanings, as I said earlier.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:34 pm

"Pull my finger," on the other hand, still means pretty much the same thing it always has.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:07 pm

Anyway...

I've never heard the term 'dropping the hammer' used in the firearm description you posted, RC, but 'lowering the hammer'. 'Dropping' always meant to discharge the primer charge or cap by dropping the hammer. Like you say, though, different meanings for different areas. I HAD forgotten the auction reference.

Yep, you're absolutely right, KT! I had forgotten that in terms of Civil War times. I actually HAVE a couple minieball's at home found locally, one that has teeth marks from being held in a man's teeth as that action was taken to tear the paper cartridge open. Why it was dropped can only be guessed at, considering the area I live in was an active battle/retreat location for the Confederate Army as they headed toward Chattanooga. Considering that ammunition was a valuable item for the Conferderates, one can only surmise the man was interrupted in his reload when the bullet was suddenly dropped. For me, when I see it sitting on my shelf at home, it's a grime and sad reminder of a very turbulent time, and those teeth mark put a human aspect to it, rather than just an item of miliaria.....

WOW! Where did all THAT come from?!

I digress......

Regards! Michaelson

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:21 pm

a minnie ball with teeth marks is likely from surgery or something related.
When a paper cartridge was torn the ball end was held and the paper end torn before the powder is poured in the barrel. There is no biting of the bullet involved.

I'm reminded of another meaning for drop the hammer as well. It is automotive/truck related and means to put the accelerator to the floor, go all out.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:22 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:"Pull my finger," on the other hand, still means pretty much the same thing it always has.

Has that been said when announcing one is ordering a jacket?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:24 pm

"I've decided to pull my finger on another Wested..." No, doesn't have the same effect, does it?

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:24 pm

Sorry, but when minieballs are found in the middle of the woods here in Tennesse, especially areas known as battle areas, as well as examples of teeth marked bullets also found on local battle fields and on display in our Civil War museums, those teeth marks were made at the moment a man was usually mortally hit in while in battle, and not in a hospital situation. That was the horror and reality of that war.

The 'quick' paper cartridge reload for a Confederate/Federal soldier was to grasp the bullet end of the paper cartridge with his teeth, quickly ripping the paper cartridge base away (holding the powder) away from the bullet and leaving the bullet between his teeth, then dumping the powder down the barrel, shoving the paper in the barrel as a wad, then putting the bullet in the barrel before ramming home with his ram rod. Quick and efficent.

I've fired reproduction rounds before, and that has always been the procedure shown as fastest in a battle situation.

Civil War curators have determined 3 kinds of 'field found bullets'. One found in perfect unblemished condition as 'dropped'. One found damaged or caved had more than likely been fired, especially if all the damage was found at the nose of the bullet....if on the side or base, more than likely damaged by farm impliment in the years after the war. The teeth marked bullets are usually called 'death' bullets, or at least that's the reference I hear around my 'neck of the woods', as those marks were made as described above...my 'neck of the woods' being between Shiloh and Chickamauga in South Central Tennessee, and south of Stone River battle ground and the Battle of Franklin battlefield.

Needless to say , a dropped bullet was a REALLY bad thing, as if you were indeed carrying paper cartridges, had gone through all the effort of tearing apart the paper, loading the powder and paper, then dropping your bullet....you usually weren't carrying any loose bullets, so there you had an essentially unloaded gun (well, it may as WELL have been) until you found a projectile to ram down on top of the powder load. When under fire, you didn't have much time to dig around in your possibles bag to locate something suitable. Just....a bad situation.....

Watch the very beginning of 'Dances with Wolves', and you'll see the man who first talks to Costner at the fence do this very quick reload of his rifle while laying on his side. Like I said, MUCH for efficent than the field manual instructions.

Like I said, though, we 'digress'.

Regards! Michaelson

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:44 pm

yes we digress.

The specific term of biting the bullet though refers to the situation rick described, biting on a bullet when there was no anesthesia.

Here is a description for Paper cartidges for percussion rifles

With the advent of the rifled barrel, it was no longer necessary to fire a spherical projectile—though the new elongated bullets were still called balls in the military. The Minié ball contained a number of innovations. The first was a deep cavity in the rear, which caused the base of the bullet to expand upon firing, allowing an undersized bullet to be used without a patch. The next was a number of grooves around the bullet, which were filled with lubricant. As noted before, this lubricant also serves to soften the powder fouling, which makes loading the fouled barrel much easier.

Because the bullet is closely matched in size to the bore, the paper around the bullet must be much thinner than in a smoothbore, to fit in the thin gap between bullet and bore. To meet this requirement, while still ensuring a rugged cartridge, the cartridges were made in multiple parts. The following describes the construction of a cartridge for a British Enfield musket, from the inside out:

* A short tube of stiff paper, which provides the strength for the cartridge
* A longer tube of thin paper, pushed inwards at one end, which serves to separate the powder from the bullet
* A long tube of thin paper, which holds the bullet at one end, and the stiffened powder container at the other

The bullet end of the cartridge was crimped shut, and the powder end was filled and folded closed. The bullet end of the completed cartridge was then dipped in a mixture of melted beeswax and tallow to lubricate the bullet.

To load the rifle, the powder end was opened up by unfolding or tearing, and the powder was poured into the rifle. The bullet end was then inserted up to the level of the thick paper tube, which was then torn off and discarded. The bullet was then seated with the ramrod, and the n****e primed with a percussion cap.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:48 pm

Like I said, there was classroom/field book procedure as you post above, and then there was what was REALLY done IN the field, as I describe. Both perfectly correct...but one definitely faster than the other.

(as a side note, I HAVE seen one in a local museum that WAS confirmed as a found large caliber minieball found in a hospital setting, and it was practically bitten in half!!

NOTHING like the bullets found with only teeth marks. The difference is shocking....but considering the patient was biting into a soft lead bullet while a doctor was calmly sawing off a limb with nothing but maybe a swig of local whiskey to dull the pain.....well...I can't even TRY to imagine it!!! It was also listed that most doctors stopped the bullet idea and used leather harnass straps as a substitute. Seeing used versions of those are pretty sobering too!)

See what you started, rick?!

Regards! Michaelson

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:57 pm

RCSignals wrote:I'm reminded of another meaning for drop the hammer as well. It is automotive/truck related and means to put the accelerator to the floor, go all out.

Similar, but not quite. It's actually "put the hammer down" for the automotive/CB talk sense, as featured in the legendary Convoy.

that_dog · Post by **that_dog** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:00 pm

rick5150 wrote:You guys are spinning an idiom to make it mean what you want, in the examples. I see your points (and understand them), but most everyone that gave an example diluted the level of pain involved and left out the negative connotations.

"Bite the bullet" can't just be used in the literal sense of excruciating pain -- otherwise it's a dead idiom. There aren't many situations in real life in which one experiences pain at the level of a battlefield wound. Childbirth would be one (based on what I witnessed when my wife gave birth without an epidural -- twice!), but it would be odd to say, "She bit the bullet and had the baby." ("He bit the bullet and passed the kidney stone" is equally weird. "He bit the bullet and had the root canal" probably works, though.)

The metaphorical power of the idiom comes from transposing it from one circumstance to another unrelated circumstance. Using the phrase "bite the bullet" to mean going through with something in spite of a significant downside (in the case of emergency surgery without anaesthetic, pain; in the case of buying a jacket, cost) works in a world in which many, many more of us will know the metaphorical "pain" of spending too much hard-earned money on something we really want than will know the literal pain of being cut into without anaesthesia.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:05 pm

Satipo wrote:
RCSignals wrote:I'm reminded of another meaning for drop the hammer as well. It is automotive/truck related and means to put the accelerator to the floor, go all out.
Similar, but not quite. It's actually "put the hammer down" for the automotive/CB talk sense, as featured in the legendary Convoy.

put the hammer down is a variant.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:07 pm

Michaelson wrote:Like I said, there was classroom/field book procedure as you post above, and then there was what was REALLY done IN the field, as I describe. Both perfectly correct...but one definitely faster than the other.

(as a side note, I HAVE seen one in a local museum that WAS confirmed as a found large caliber minieball found in a hospital setting, and it was practically bitten in half!! NOTHING like the bullets found with only teeth marks. The difference is shocking....but considering the patient was biting into a soft lead bullet while a doctor was calmly sawing off a limb with nothing but maybe a swig of local whiskey to dull the pain.....well...I can't even TRY to imagine it!!! It was also listed that most doctors stopped the bullet idea and used leather harnass straps as a substitute. Seeing used versions of those are pretty sobering too!)

See what you started, rick?!

Regards! Michaelson

Yes biting a bullet in surgery was a field expedient when there was nothing else to bite down on

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:10 pm

RCSignals wrote:
Satipo wrote:
RCSignals wrote:I'm reminded of another meaning for drop the hammer as well. It is automotive/truck related and means to put the accelerator to the floor, go all out.
Similar, but not quite. It's actually "put the hammer down" for the automotive/CB talk sense, as featured in the legendary Convoy.
put the hammer down is a variant.

Actually, I just checked my old CB handbook and you're right.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:18 pm

Ah well.

This has really gone down an interesting trail.

Just read one more thing that was REALLY interesting, then I'll leave this alone:

The soldier could rip off the back end of the paper cartridge and then pour the powder down the barrel followed by the bullet. They were taught to tear off the back end of the cartridge with their teeth. This worked until the teeth became loose. As part of the military medical examine, the doctors checked certain molar teeth matched for biting and tearing paper cartridges.

Found here:

http://www.hackman-adams.com/guns/aboutpaper.htm

So, though popular and fast, apparently hard on the old choppers over time.

I wonder how many old timers told their grandkids after the war 'We would 'a wupped them @#$% Yankees if my teeth hadn't fallen out!'

Regards! Michaelson

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:24 pm

Kt Templar wrote:You know what, I always thought that to Bite the Bullet referred to the paper gunpowder cartridge you had to bite to open before pouring the gunpowder in to reload a musket.

Unless you were in Sepoy, in which case they refused.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:26 pm

VERY true!

Regards! Michaelson

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:12 pm

crismans wrote:
Kt Templar wrote:You know what, I always thought that to Bite the Bullet referred to the paper gunpowder cartridge you had to bite to open before pouring the gunpowder in to reload a musket.
Unless you were in Sepoy, in which case they refused.

an apocryphal story was created that the paper cartridges were greased in animal fat.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:17 pm

Michaelson wrote:Ah well.

This has really gone down an interesting trail.

Just read one more thing that was REALLY interesting, then I'll leave this alone:

The soldier could rip off the back end of the paper cartridge and then pour the powder down the barrel followed by the bullet. They were taught to tear off the back end of the cartridge with their teeth. This worked until the teeth became loose. As part of the military medical examine, the doctors checked certain molar teeth matched for biting and tearing paper cartridges.
Found here:

http://www.hackman-adams.com/guns/aboutpaper.htm

So, though popular and fast, apparently hard on the old choppers over time.

I wonder how many old timers told their grandkids after the war 'We would 'a wupped them @#$% Yankees if my teeth hadn't fallen out!'

Regards! Michaelson

the Board of Dentistry has great power

Yeah they'd rip off the back end of the pare cartidge witht ehir teeth then spit it out. That end was tough so it would be hard on teeth, so would a lead bullet.

how long until lead poisoning?

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:30 pm

RCSignals wrote:
crismans wrote:
Kt Templar wrote:You know what, I always thought that to Bite the Bullet referred to the paper gunpowder cartridge you had to bite to open before pouring the gunpowder in to reload a musket.
Unless you were in Sepoy, in which case they refused.
an apocryphal story was created that the paper cartridges were greased in animal fat.

That's what I was referring to.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:45 pm

RCSignals wrote:how long until lead poisoning?

Very true!

Then again....we need to define 'lead poisoning', as anyone hit by a flying projectile during that time period would have indeed died of 'lead poisoning too, eh?

HIGH regards! Michaelson

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:56 pm

that_dog wrote:"He bit the bullet and had the root canal" probably works, though.)

The mechanics of biting a bullet while having a root canal cannot work.

that_dog wrote:Childbirth would be one (based on what I witnessed when my wife gave birth without an epidural -- twice!), but it would be odd to say, "She bit the bullet and had the baby." ("He bit the bullet and passed the kidney stone" is equally weird.

But "biting the bullet" buying a jacket seems less weird? It may not apply to any of these stuations, which is kind of my point. You wouldn't use the idiom in those cases because it is not appropriate. (Congratulations on the babies, by the way).

that_dog wrote:"Bite the bullet" can't just be used in the literal sense of excruciating pain -- otherwise it's a dead idiom

Something that is only mildly unpleasant cheapens the meaning, and I am sure there are other idioms to use. It is also not used in the literal sense because nobody is biting on an actual bullet, so there are some leeway with which to work.

It is like the word "irony" to me. For example, if Johnny had an irrational fear of flying, and he overcame that fear to take a flight from Chicago to Boston, I do not find it terribly ironic when the plane crashes, killing poor Johnny. That is bad luck. To me, the real irony would be if the situation was identical, except Johnny was flying to Chicago to attend a seminar called "How To Overcome Your Fear of Flying" and the plane crashed.

But I am sure I will take @#$% about that example too.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:18 pm

Michaelson wrote:
RCSignals wrote:how long until lead poisoning?
Very true!

Then again....we need to define 'lead poisoning', as anyone hit by a flying projectile during that time period would have indeed died of 'lead poisoning too, eh?

HIGH regards! Michaelson

direct injection vs ingestion

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:20 pm

Actually, rick5150. I understand a lynch mob is being formed behind the barn at this moment, and are just waiting for you to come out the kitchen door for starting this mess in the first place.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:21 pm

RCSignals wrote:
Michaelson wrote:
RCSignals wrote:how long until lead poisoning?
Very true!

Then again....we need to define 'lead poisoning', as anyone hit by a flying projectile during that time period would have indeed died of 'lead poisoning too, eh?

HIGH regards! Michaelson
direct injection vs ingestion

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:47 pm

Okay, I'm going to bite the bullet and take the plunge.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:47 pm