Club Obi Wan

I recently acquired a indy style bullwhip made by Rhett Kelley and the laces look like they are flat. There was an extra fall include and it is definitely a flat nylon lace. I have read elsewhere on this forum that parachute cord is used and from what I have seen with parachute cord is that it has several strand in a hollow tube. Which would be better to use? I think the flat lace give it more of a leather plaiting appearance.

Also, I have of steel cable being used as the center belly? Does anyone have anything to back this up?

Isn't steel cable what they used in the stunt whips for swinging on? I don't know if it'd work in a real whip.

Now that I get a good look at the fall, it looks like it is parachute cord that has had the strands taken out and flattened. Is this what needs to be done with the last set of plaiting for the whip or all the way through the body?
Is two bellies all that are needed for a nylon whip, 12 plait and then 16. The whip is skinnier than a normal leather bullwhip. I would like to make a thicker one but don't know if it is possible, unless and 18 plait is put over it if that even exists. I imagine that once the strands are pulled out of the nylon tubing that the bb's can be inserted.

On the bullwhip faq it says that Billy Anderson makes his nylon whips with a steel cable belly.

uasualy for the belly plaits of nylon whips the core of each strand is taken out and for the overlay it is left in. Is there any chance you could post close up pictures of your RK at the end of the whip and the fall hitch area?
mola

Sure. I will post pics today. Are bolsters used in the process and if so, what are they made out of?

im not completley sure but when i was looking through
choices of bolster material i though of using sheets of
either nylon webbing or (not sure what its called) The stuff
thats black that is uasualy used for the outside of backpacks.
I just emailed Tim bass and ill post his response here.
mola

much appreciated. I have just order how to make a whip by edwards and I think this will be a good starting point.

Blackthorne Rose wrote:Now that I get a good look at the fall, it looks like it is parachute cord that has had the strands taken out and flattened. Is this what needs to be done with the last set of plaiting for the whip or all the way through the body?

Wow, I didn't even think about taking the strands out of mine. They still have their white nylon "guts". The Positive side of this is that this keeps the weight of the whip nice and heavy and you don't have to use a shot bag. I used a 3/8" white nylon rope for a core, and plaited a 6 plait belly over that, and then the 12-plait overlay. (I know, I should have added a bolster, but I didn't.) The negative side is, of course, that you can't get the strands to lie nice and flat.

Blackthorne Rose wrote:Is two bellies all that are needed for a nylon whip, 12 plait and then 16. The whip is skinnier than a normal leather bullwhip. I would like to make a thicker one but don't know if it is possible, unless and 18 plait is put over it if that even exists.

I used the plaits mentioned in the above paragraph. However, if you pull out the inner strands on nylon, I can see how you would need to use an 10-plait or even 12-plait belly around the rope core and then a 16-plait overlay.

Blackthorne Rose wrote: I imagine that once the strands are pulled out of the nylon tubing that the bb's can be inserted.

Are you saying that you should put the shot (BBs) inside each of the strands? Somehow, I don't see that working very well.

A rope is not a good core at all for a whip it breaks down and will wreck your entire job. The uasual core for a nylon whip (which rhett kelly uses)
is 1 single nylon cord with the innards pulled out. The end is then burnt and sewn closed and used like a shot bag. It is then filled with bb's for wheight and the top is burnt and sewn closed. Thats uasualy the standard way for a nylon. By the way, duct tape is not good for shot bags.
mola

Guys, parachute cord is definitely used. The inner core is removed to make the laces flat. Also as Molorom says, there is a shot bag filled with lead shot into a hollowed out cord (as he described) that is used as the core of the whip. This gives the nylon whip some heft, other wise it would not have any body to it.

-S

Aha! Those last two posts certainly clear some things up.

Thanks!!

So what is the consensus on what is used for bolsters on a nylon whip. Nylon webbing?

Sounds good to me. It's got to be nylon, for sure. I was going to hit a fabric store sometime this week and do some snooping.

Molorom wrote:A rope is not a good core at all for a whip it breaks down and will wreck your entire job.

How does nylon rope "break down" any faster than the nylon strands of parachute cord?

the fibers break apart in some ropes and it makes the whip
well......handle like a rope.....not a whip.
mola

Molorom wrote:the fibers break apart in some ropes and it makes the whip
well......handle like a rope.....not a whip.
mola

Even if you have a tight 8-plait belly right over the top of it? I would think that would hold it together pretty well.

I guess I just like the thickness that the 3/8" nylon rope gives the whip. Seems like using a small 1/8" hollowed out strand of parachute cord, even if filled with shot, as the core will make it really slim. I am going to try the shot-filled strand for a core on my next attempt, though.

Another question about waxing a nylon whip. Is it better to dip the entire whip into melted paraffin in a pot or can one melt part of a bar and rub it over the whip?

Can anyone answer my waxing question?

Rhett Kelly's site says to melt the wax in a double boiler and dip everything but the handle portion into the wax and pull it out.

This is straight from his website:

I recommend re-waxing your whip (depending on frequency of use) about every 4 to 6 months. I normally dip the whip (without handle) into a pot of molten paraffin wax. Be careful no to get the wax too hot as it will melt the nylon. Bees wax can also be used.

Here's some info from Tim Bass on making the cores for his nylon whips:

Ok, I use a strand of the nylon that is filled with BB's, this gives it a round shape and adds weight. My handles are generally wood. I do use a steel handle for longer whips though. The 25 footer I just made had a steel handle. I drill the end of the handle and insert the core into the handle and secure with wood glue. I sand the last three to four inches of the handle so that it begins the taper. There is still a bit of a transition though and I actually use duct tape as a bolster material to smooth out this transition. The duct tape is a two fold solution. It builds up the transition and also helps to give the whip a bit of rigidity. If you did not put something in to make it a bit more rigid the transition from the stiff handle to the flexible thong would be be too severe.

Great! thanks for the info.

Here's some info from Tim Bass on material for the bolsters:

Believe it or not, duct tape. It is man made and will not break down, it stays in place when you are braiding and you can build it up as needed to maintain the correct taper. Just make sure you don't run it down the lengthwise down the whip but around from the tip to the handle. If you run it straight down the whip the long way it will be too stiff.

Here is some info from Tim Bass on attaching the core to a steel handle and the turk's head knot.

When I use a steel handle I grind the tip down a bit so that I can stick the tip into the nylon and glue it in place. For the turks heads I have stainless steel ball bearings welded onto the end and put the turks head over that.

For the turks heads I have stainless steel ball bearings welded onto the end and put the turks head over that.

Holy cow!!

What would be a better core for a nylon whip as far as the shot bag is concerned. Can I use BB's or would lead shot be better.? If lead shot, then where can I purchase it and is there a particular size that is better for whips?

I've heard that #12 shot works best. I already have some extra #8 shot, though, which is slightly bigger, so I'll probably try that first to see how it handles. Like wire guage sizes, the larger the number of the shot, the smaller the size. BBs are much too large.

You can buy boxes of loose shot at almost any place that sells hunting equipment. Check with your larger sporting goods stores.

Aren't BB's what Rhett Kelley says he uses on his site. If I do use #12 shot how do I get it into the nylon core?

the way Tim described it to me, was that he emtpies out a piece of the nylon cord, melts one end shut, then uses a funnel to pour in the shot. Once he gets it good and tight, he melts the other end shut.

I plan on doing a variation of this. My next core will consist of three strands done like this, but in varying lengths, so that the core starts out at the same approximate diameter as the nail spike and tapers out at the end. I'll leave the top two inches or so of the nylon cord empty so I can tie that to the end of the nail spike and the shot will actually start at the end of the spike. I'll have a groove cut about an inch away from the end of the mail spike so that when I tie on the cord, there won't be a big lump where the sinew is. I'll then use duct tape as a bolster to keep the three strands together.

Then I'll plait an 8-plait belly over this core, followed by another duct tape bolster, followed by the 12- or 16-plait overlay (I haven't decided which, yet. Part of that depends on the circumference of the belly.)

Oh, and I'll take pics along the way.

Sounds like a plan. I just acquired 1200 ft of tan paracord. I am working on an 8ft bullwhip. so I will have about a 5 foot core from nail head to end. I am using bernie's method of shotbag, while not forgetting to create a good strong transition from the nail to the strand so I won't limp noodle out.

I have a gun and rifle store nearby. Does the stuff come in bags? Does the #12 refer to 12 guage / pellet size.

Blackthorne Rose wrote:I have a gun and rifle store nearby. Does the stuff come in bags? Does the #12 refer to 12 guage / pellet size.

Bags or boxes, depending on quantity and brand.

Yes, the #12 refers to the size of the shot.