Club Obi Wan

Yes, I said it.

I'm very fussy with my fedoras. The custom hatters I've bought from know that I always want to bash my hat myself, due to the fact that I like things "just so," and it is just part of making my hat "my own" that I put my own creases into it. Just a personal thing, no offense to any of the custom hatmakers bashing skills.

Part of this fussiness is that I like to put subtle nuances in my creases - tiny little dents or curves that express my personality or vision for my hat. I'm a artist, and sculpting is one of my favorite mediums, so this no doubt comes out of that.

And this brings me to my frustration with beaver felt. It is just too dense and stiff for what I like to do with my fedoras. With good, pliable rabbit fur, I can press a fingertip into a spot, or just make a tiny pinch with my fingertips, and I've got a detail in my crease that adds character to it. I just got my first handmade beaver fedora (I won't say from whom as it doesn't matter to my point, but it's quality Winchester beaver felt) after many years of owning rabbit fedoras, and I just can't get any nuances into it at all! I've pressed and squeezed and huffed and puffed and even resorted to cool, distilled water mist, and I can't get any small detail I want to stick. That doggone beaver fur just smooths it right out after a few minutes or hours, and I'm left with a somewhat generic bash, that to me has little character. I know many here are very happy with their beaver fedoras, and I don't want to knock anyone's tastes - it just isn't for me. I love the light, pliable feel of (quality) rabbit, and how it can take any little crease or bend I put into it, and hold it. The beaver fedora I got is a very nice hat, top-quality and workmanship, and even seems quite soft as beaver felts go (I've felt other beaver hats that were much, much stiffer) but it just isn't for me as far as the type of felt. From now on I'm sticking with rabbit.

I'm actually kind of disappointed, because I do like the feel of the felt, and its smoothness when well-pounced, as mine is, but I just can't get over this drawback. I think a beaver-rabbit mix is as far as I can go. I had a Henry (only sold it because it didn't fit - I'm in-between full sizes) and I was pretty happy with its flexibility and softness, but 20% beaver mix is probably the limit. Any more than that and it starts getting too stiff and dense for me.

Nothing wrong with having your opinion, especially after such "trial and error." Not one thing will work for everyone out there. There's nothing wrong with that. Something to consider, though, is the thickness of the felt. I recently got a featherweight beaver fedora which is considerably thinner than your average fedora and this felt reacts in all kinds of crazy ways. Heck, if you like to tweak, this felt will definitely do it. But yes, if you find a specific felt works better for you, by all means, go for it!

binkmeisterRick wrote:I recently got a featherweight beaver fedora which is considerably thinner than your average fedora and this felt reacts in all kinds of crazy ways. Heck, if you like to tweak, this felt will definitely do it.

Really? What brand? Or from whom? I'd be interested in trying that.

What I'd really love is if they'd start treating rabbit with mercury again like they used to. Then I'd get more of the smooth feel of beaver with the lightness of rabbit. But alas...

I've just been playing with my Garrison Raiders hat lately - a rabbit felt - and loving all the little tweaks and nuances I've been able to put into it. I actually took the plunge and turned and re-bashed it into a more Raven Bar style, which I was scared to death to do, since I was afraid I ruin it due to the fact that the old bash was so firmly fixed into it for almost a year now. But that felt is so pliable and forgiving that I actually got a nice bash into it, and, even though a tiny shadow of the old front pinch can be seen in just the right light, it is fading fast and unless you are really looking for it you can't see it at all. And the new bash looks great, if I do say so myself. I was going to post some pictures but haven't had time to take any yet. As soon as I can, I will. LLS deserves the props.

Interesting, and quite understandable. I am in the process of ordering a custom, and what you describe was heavily weighed in my decision making.

**I'd be interested in hearing from the hat makers: lightweight beaver - possibility? impractical? enough demand? Desirable results ( as far as what has been described )? Etc...

I do like the ripples and quirks I get from my older light weight rabbits ( late fourties through mid sixties ), in particular a mid-fifties Open Road I just had reblocked. I can put it on open crown, squeeze in some dents, and get those neat "fingerprints" you're talking about. At the end of the night, push them out, brush the hat, and put it in the box. The next wear, I can make it similar or something quite different...

The substancial nature of the beaver fur just FEELS like you've got somethng rugged and quality on your head. The other day, I'd picked out my hat for the evening ( a rabbit ) and was headed out the door. I noticed it was starting to mist a bit, maybe some real rain.... I immediately traded up for an AB. So everything has it's place. Unless I can take two hats, I doubt I will ever travel with anything but beaver, now that I have that luxury. Then I'm prepared for every eventuality. But at home, knowing the weather, where I'm going...a controlled environment, I totally understand and largely agree with your sentiment about making a hat your own and how the rabbit is most accomodating.

Jason, the hat I got was from another member here, but I believe it is Winchester felt. It's a 96 gram featherweight body (if I remember that correctly) and is exactly the kind of felt I've been trying to convince hatters to stock. I hear it's a challenge to sew in the sweats, though, because it's so thin and malleable. Now that I've got what I'm after, I guess I don't need to bug them anymore. Optimo is the only hatter I know off hand who offers this kind of felt.

kiltie wrote:I do like the ripples and quirks I get from my older light weight rabbits ( late fourties through mid sixties ), in particular a mid-fifties Open Road I just had reblocked. I can put it on open crown, squeeze in some dents, and get those neat "fingerprints" you're talking about. At the end of the night, push them out, brush the hat, and put it in the box. The next wear, I can make it similar or something quite different...

kiltie. And I agree that beaver is nice in inclement weather (I live in Michigan, so I know all about it!). But I've found if I treat my rabbit with some good water repellant, like John Penman sells, I don't have to worry too much about the weather's effect on my hat. My FedIV and my Garrison Raider has stood up to some snowstorms and rainstorms with no ill effects, and kept my head warm enough as well. Beaver is warmer, but as a hardened Northerner, I need less to keep warm. I understand others may need the extra warmth that beaver hats provide.

binkmeisterRick wrote:Jason, the hat I got was from another member here, but I believe it is Winchester felt. It's a 96 gram featherweight body (if I remember that correctly) and is exactly the kind of felt I've been trying to convince hatters to stock. I hear it's a challenge to sew in the sweats, though, because it's so thin and malleable. Now that I've got what I'm after, I guess I don't need to bug them anymore. Optimo is the only hatter I know off hand who offers this kind of felt.

Thanks, Bink. I doubt I can afford Optimo right now, but I'll keep that in mind.

Hello,

Indeed, there exists a variety of beaver felt that is lightweight. It is available from, at least, some custom hatters. Art Fawcett (Vintage Silohuettes) can make such hats in a variety of colours:

http://www.vintagesilhouettes.com/

I do not have any of his lightweights, but I have a couple of regular weight hats and I am extremely pleased with his services, so I do not hesitate to recommend him.

COW member Chewbacca Jones does have one of the lighweights, maybe he will chime in and comment.

Regular beaver felt hats can be shaped with steam or with water, if you are not obtaining the results you want by means of dry-creasing. They will become pliable and will later recover their resilience, keeping the new shape.

HTH,

Regards!

Jason, I agree with you. My only beaver experience has been the Henry, which isn't even 100% beaver, but anyway...

Beaver is too elastic to achieve a good Raider's look; or, at least, a SOC look. You can't distress beaver THAT much. And I found much easier bashing my Christy's than the Henry.

Restless Dreamer wrote:Jason, I agree with you. My only beaver experience has been the Henry, which isn't even 100% beaver, but anyway...

Beaver is too elastic to achieve a good Raider's look; or, at least, a SOC look. You can't distress beaver THAT much. And I found much easier bashing my Christy's than the Henry.

Ciao, amico mio! Come vanno le cose? Ho abitato in Roma per tre anni negli anni ottanti (ottanta?) - ho molti ricordi piacevoli.

It's true and Steve and others have noted that, that beaver won't distress the way rabbit will to get a good SOC look. I'm one of the apparent minority who don't like the SOC look, but I do like the way my rabbit hats are "distressing" (I use that term loosely as I take good care of my hats). They bulge and stretch every so slightly in certain areas that give them a unique look. You don't get that with beaver - at least the thicker beaver most vendors use.

I don't like SOC too - in fact, I prefer Raven Bar style. SOC style wants a distressed, distorted and dusty hat, which is good only with casual attires or Indy-style clothes. I usually wear fedoras with classic clothing, and I don't think a SOC hat would match well with a suit.

Io in realtà non sono di Roma, ma di Caserta (la conosci? alla Reggia di Caserta hanno girato alcune scene di Angeli e Demoni e di due episodi di Star Wars). A Roma ci vivo per studio, al quartiere San Paolo (vicino Garbatella); tu dove abitavi?

(Sorry guys for speaking italian I thought it would have been rude not to answer. Anyway, here's the translation: I'm not from Rome, indeed: I'm from Caserta (you know it? they shot some scenes of Angels and Demons and of two episodes of Star Wars in the Royal Palace of Caserta). I live in Rome for study, in San Paolo distric (near Garbatella); where did you use to live?)

binkmeisterRick wrote:Jason, the hat I got was from another member here, but I believe it is Winchester felt. It's a 96 gram featherweight body (if I remember that correctly) and is exactly the kind of felt I've been trying to convince hatters to stock.

If it's the one I THINK you're talking about, actually it's a 78 gram featherweight Portugese body.....

Regards! Michaelson

Restless Dreamer wrote:I don't like SOC too - in fact, I prefer Raven Bar style. SOC style wants a distressed, distorted and dusty hat, which is good only with casual attires or Indy-style clothes. I usually wear fedoras with classic clothing, and I don't think a SOC hat would match well with a suit.

Io in realtà non sono di Roma, ma di Caserta (la conosci? alla Reggia di Caserta hanno girato alcune scene di Angeli e Demoni e di due episodi di Star Wars). A Roma ci vivo per studio, al quartiere San Paolo (vicino Garbatella); tu dove abitavi?

(Sorry guys for speaking italian I thought it would have been rude not to answer. Anyway, here's the translation: I'm not from Rome, indeed: I'm from Caserta (you know it? they shot some scenes of Angels and Demons and of two episodes of Star Wars in the Royal Palace of Caserta). I live in Rome for study, in San Paolo distric (near Garbatella); where did you use to live?)

The Raven Bar style is my favorite, too. For the same reason as well. I like to wear my fedoras with nicer attire, and so I like my fedoras to look nice as well - not saturated with dirt and sweat stains.

I didn't mean to be rude with the Italian either, everyone. Probably should leave that for the PMs. Anyway, thanks for the reply, RD. Sorry if my Italian is lousy - I'm really out of practice. I actually prided myself on speaking like a native when I was living there. People didn't know I was American unless I told them. Now, as soon as I open my mouth (or type) it's pretty obvious. Like most skills, if you don't use it, you lose it...

As for Caserta, I know of it, but I don't think I was ever there. Of course my memory is fuzzy. I'll look up some pictures and see if it jogs anything! I lived in a suburb of Rome called La Storta ("the crook" or "the twist"). Not much of a place - mostly farmland, at least back then. We spent a lot of time downtown in Rome, consequently. Great place to study! I'm envious.

Jason, since you wear a Raven Bar styled hat, could you tell me if there is any visible difference between it, Idle Grab and Well of Souls? I always failed to notice the nuances that make every style particular.

Michaelson wrote: If it's the one I THINK you're talking about, actually it's a 78 gram featherweight Portugese body.....

Regards! Michaelson

Ah, yes! I knew I got the number wrong! I went to art school to avoid numbers but they still seem to turn up everywhere I go. I've had too much rattling around in this old noggin of mine to keep things straight. It's still a fantastic felt, though!

Restless Dreamer wrote:Jason, since you wear a Raven Bar styled hat, could you tell me if there is any visible difference between it, Idle Grab and Well of Souls? I always failed to notice the nuances that make every style particular.

Aha! Here's my opening! (as if I need one ) I was just thinking about that recently, since my mom, who is a big Indy fan, came downstate to visit and we watched Raiders together for old times' sake, and I was noticing again the differences between the hat in all those various scenes. I was thinking about putting together a set of screenshots with lines drawn on them to kind of illustrate the differences. There isn't a whole lot (IMHO), but there are some nuances that separate them. The main difference between the Raven Bar and the Idol Grab is the sharpness of the front creases. They are razor sharp in the Idol Grab scene. Much softer and less deep in the Raven Bar.

Tell you what, RD, to keep this thread on topic, I'll start a new thread on this tonight when I can get some pictures up to help illustrate. But in

jasonalun wrote:

Restless Dreamer wrote: I was thinking about putting together a set of screenshots with lines drawn on them to kind of illustrate the differences. There isn't a whole lot (IMHO), but there are some nuances that separate them. The main difference between the Raven Bar and the Idol Grab is the sharpness of the front creases. They are razor sharp in the Idol Grab scene. Much softer and less deep in the Raven Bar.

It's already been done. Check out the Fedora FAQ thread stickied at the top of this section. http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10903

There's nothing on the different styles within Raiders though

Regards, Geert

gwyddion wrote:There's nothing on the different styles within Raiders though

Regards, Geert

Exactly - that's what I was getting at. I've never seen an in-depth pictorial description of the differences between the different Raiders bashes on this board, and I've searched it pretty thoroughly. There have been topics where people discussed some of them, but no one thread that captures it all, with pics.

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... ers+fedora

Search term: "pictures of raiders fedora"

Search forum: Fedora

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jasonalun wrote:

gwyddion wrote:There's nothing on the different styles within Raiders though

Regards, Geert

Exactly - that's what I was getting at. I've never seen an in-depth pictorial description of the differences between the different Raiders bashes on this board, and I've searched it pretty thoroughly. There have been topics where people discussed some of them, but no one thread that captures it all, with pics.

I recently proposed the idea to modify the page Bink linked in order to add ALL the styles, or, at least, the most famous ones. but the moderators didn't agree, because it's their opinion that, since those nuances we are talking about are not clearly visible, and then every statement about a style could be argued, and this could lead to flame wars.

Anyway, nothing forbids you to provide your own, personal analysis of the various styles. Whether it will become officially accepted or not, it's impossible to tell. But we may speculate.

I think we should define the differences between

Outside Temple
Idol Grab
Raven Bar
SOC
Well of Souls



@Bink: I have seen that photo before: it could be a good starting point, but there's still no written text which underlines the differences between the various styles. we could use those images to produce an in-depth analysis of every style.

I am aware of that, Bink, but that really isn't what I had in mind. Yes, you can see all the different bashes. But Restless Dreamer was asking what the differences between some of those are, as he doesn't really see them. I was going to illustrate that with lines and descriptions on some of the screen shots. I still think that has some merit.

I posted just as RD posted his, so I missed it. I'll make up something, and if the mods don't like it, it doesn't have to be put up, but whoever wants it can get it from me. How's that?

Bink, has anyone done a tutorial style thread on the differences between the various hats in Raiders though? Because I think that's what he's planning.

I would be able to tell which pic from that composite is from where in the movie, but not everyone can. That thread and pic was pretty usefull when I first bashed my Henry though.

Regards, Geert

EDIT: I'm such a slow typer

gwyddion wrote: I would be able to tell which pic from that composite is from where in the movie,

I would, too, but just because I recognize the scenes. But I don't think I could tell a Raven's Bar hat from a Well of Souls hat, for example. Or maybe I could, but I wouldn't be able to explain the difference by words THAT'S what we are trying to do when one says "Raiders", this definition comes to your mind: "tall crown, tight pinch, wide, turned* brim". But when one says "Idol Grab" which is the definition you have of it?


(Pleas mods, forgive us if we are going off topic )


*except from the Outside Temple scene

Yeah much of what the original poster was talking about actually involves the weight of the felt. If you use a lightweight pure beaver body, you can get very close to the same nuances as rabbit, and you will still have that beaver feel and durability to boot.

For instance, if you take a heavy weight pure rabbit hat, it will act like a medium weight beaver hat, in the nuances, the dents, etc.

I have found that when you run into styling problems with medium weight beaver, (what Marc and I use) it helps to actually beat the crown with the butt end of a brim brush, and then work it with your hands, kneading the crown, until you get the felt to soften up a bit. One thing that drives me nuts is when the factory I use, for some reason, puts a bit of shellac into the dress bodies. They are NOT supposed to, but from time to time, it happens. Pure beaver certainly needs no shellac, as the denseness of the Medium weight bodies have a natural stiffness that comes with this weight of felt.

I have found that beaver comes up short, when used for a Raiders fedora, that is, for certain scenes. Other scenes that display a newer, fresher hat, well, beaver can pull off those looks with no problem. Just depends upon the scene. And it is very hard to ever get a SOC look from beaver. The felt is just too high of a quality to exhibit the look of a lessor quality felt. Much of what we love, is actually due to weakness of the felt used. A good hat should never bulge, that's a given with hatters. Yet, my fav hat of the films has always, and always will be, the bulging, drooping, Raiders fedora. I find this hilarious, because I love high quality hats. But my fav hat is not so high quality. What a contradiction!!

I do own and wear a rabbit hat, two in fact. One is vintage, the other is an HJ. Both are Raider fedoras. I wear them in the summer. When winter arrives, I pretty much stick to my beaver hats. Mostly because we get those long slow rains in my area in the winter. Plus, beaver is a warmer hat to wear. There is room enough in my closet for a variety, but IF, I could own only one hat, that hat would be beaver. I would just go with the Raven hat, or even the opening scenes hat, or even the monkey hat, since it doesn't appear to me to be the SOC fedora, although sequentially, it should have been. If my memory serves me, the monkey hat doesn't have the drooping brim of the SOC hat. The brim break still looks to be there in the right spot. Fedora

Hey Steve, thanks for joining in!

I recall you sharing that "beating the crown with the brush handle" trick a while back in some thread, and I'll try that on mine. But honestly, I can already tell that by now it isn't stiffener that's my problem, but simply the weight of the felt. It's good to know that there are lightweight beaver felts out there, though. If I can try them out and they act like you and Bink say, I can retract the title of this thread.

I want to stick my head in the door to thank everyone who has posted so far in such a level headed way.

Most times with someone posts a view completely contrary to the usual thought process around here, folks pile on the poor devil who dared to post an alternative view, causing the adms/mods to have to put on riot gear and haul off the bodies.

This has been a VERY good read, and speaking for myself, MUCH appreciated.

Ok, back to work....

Regards! Michaelson

Restless Dreamer wrote: I think we should define the differences between

Outside Temple
Idol Grab
Raven Bar
SOC
Well of Souls

If GCR is still around, please weigh in. Griff once provided me with a brief but thorough comparison of these bashes.

Barcelona Jones wrote: http://www.vintagesilhouettes.com/

COW member Chewbacca Jones does have one of the lighweights, maybe he will chime in and comment.

Wow, this is a rather hot topic!

Well, here I am. Yes, I have one of Art's lightweights. The felt is... well, to paraphrase Blueoakleys; "Liquid Felt." I wish I had asked for it open crowned. One day I will get a reblock. But this stuff is very thin, very pliable. If you want to wear it in cold weather, though, I recommend asking for a full liner. Art does not put one in his light weights unless you ask.

I also have one of Sergei's old Optimos. I do not know what weight felt it is, but it is almost as soft as Art's lightweight, but a little thicker. I suspect it's the mid-weight.

I suspect that, if you are willing to try beaver felt again, both would be to your liking, Jason. The Optimo even reminds me a little of the HJ felt, but.. you know... better.

Thanks for the info, Chewbacca. Perhaps someday I will give Art a try - his lightweight offering sounds great. I guess the other thing that factors into my decision is that I have limited funds to spend on hats for awhile. Beaver hats are, as we all know, much more expensive than rabbit. So if I do scrape together some cash eventually, I'll be more likely to afford a rabbit, even custom, than a custom beaver. And, since the other vendors on this board offer only (as far as I know) the medium weight beaver, I would have to order from Optimo, which are very expensive, or Art, who I don't know what his price range is, but I'm guessing it is probably similar to Optimo. So as much as I'd like to try one of these lightweight ones out, realistically I don't think it'll happen anytime soon.

Jason, I guess I was looking from the "picture speaks a thousand words" point of view. I would figure that if you compare the images you could see the differences and that they would speak for themselves, but yes, I suppose everyone picks up on the details differently.

There have been countless discussions over the years regarding what the bashes and details of each hat are, as well as many theories as to how the bashes were created. It sticks in my mind that the idea of containing it all in a single thread crops up from time to time, but the threads either fizzle out or get buried under tangents and arguments. And yes, some folks do get rather "passionate" regarding the subject at times.

Anyway, nothing forbids you to provide your own, personal analysis of the various styles. Whether it will become officially accepted or not, it's impossible to tell. But we may speculate.

I would agree with RD on this one. While the idea isn't necessarily a bad one in concept, it's different when put into practice. The challenge is agreeing on what makes each style what and trying to make things as comprehensive and mutually defined as possible. Putting together a "master list" is also a LOT more work than most realize. More often than not, folks drop the ball, the lists remain incomplete, and the thread fades away like an entire city covered in a sandstorm by the wrath of God.

And as Michaelson said, thanks for keeping civil, everyone.

I saw the title of this thread and didn't know what can of worms I opened when clicking on it.

But, this has ended up being very interesting! I haven't anything constructive to add, but wanted to say I found it interesting.

Randy

jasonalun wrote:...Art, who I don't know what his price range is, but I'm guessing it is probably similar to Optimo.

Actually, Art is quite reasonable. He's just a little higher than Penman right now, but still very reasonable. Also, I know he carries a few colors in rabbit, but I've never inquired about them.

binkmeisterRick wrote:http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... ers+fedora

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Bink helping with searches: Priceless.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

I'll send you the bill, Jeff.

I'd like to thank everyone for their reasonable replies as well. I realize I was "stirring the pot" a little with my thread title, but you guys vindicated my faith in you by not flaming me and actually making this a very interesting and helpful thread. Now, I have something to investigate, when I have the money, at least.

Thanks, all!

GROUP HUG!!!

Group hugs, very dangerous.. you go first. [I'll stand aside and see who's stealing the wallets.]

You know, Obi Wan had something to say about the truth "from a certain point of view." So, in reality on many things, there is no right or wrong answer. Beaver vs. Rabbit being on of those cases. From my standpoint, I don't have an opinion having never owned a pure beaver hat, other than a cowboy hat my grandfather owned, which is too small for me. But for most of my hat wearing, I think rabbit can and does stand up to what I require of it.

Now, were I to do half the things Snakewhip Sable does with his.....

Randy

It's good to know that there are lightweight beaver felts out there, though. If I can try them out and they act like you and Bink say, I can retract the title of this thread.

I have not seen in hand my suppliers lightweight beaver bodies, but I have seen the ones from Portugal. I think Bink owns that hat now. This hat was so soft and floppy that I HAD to add shellac to it, just to sew in the sweat! Also, had to add some to the brim to get a halfway decent cut. The felt was so soft that it was hard to even cut it with a rounding jack. It pushed the felt, and made the cut an impossible task for me. (without adding the shellac)But, I am NOT used to working with this really floppy stuff, until I started doing the HJ for Magnoli. I recall that beaver hat being very hard to work.

So, I don't expect to offer it in the future, but who knows? Things change. I do figure it would pull off the SOC look though. It's as soft as any rabbit felt I have seen. But has a denseness to it. The thinness of the felt makes it behave differently than the med. weight beaver. And that's the key for beaver hats. If you want one as soft as a mid weight rabbit, go lightweight. I think you will be pleased. Fedora

Yep, Steve, I own that hat now.

I realize I'm chiming in to say something that's already been said, but... Wow, what a civil conversation!

When I first read your thread title, jasonalun, I thought "Uh oh, here we go!"
But instead I get a level-headed exchange in opinion between C.O.W. Members SO rich with new info (for ME anyway) that it amounts to a "can't put it down" read!

So, I guess what I want to say is:
Thanks everyone.
That was one of the most enjoyable - and educational - threads I've had the pleasure of enjoying here in a while.
All the Best,
Mitch

Bink,

Can you post some pics of the hat you and Fedora were referring to?:)

Matt

Sure, though it might be a couple days until I can get to it. It's not Indy styled currently and needs to be resized slightly for me.

.. needs to be resized slightly...

Well, my friend, you know where to send it! And I would not mind seeing this hat again. I could even take some pics, showing how well the lightweight beaver fits the bill for a Raiders fedora.

For the record, I pulled out one of my AB beaver hats last night, and had no trouble in getting a distressed Raiders look on this particular hat. Of course, it is about 5 years old too, and had mellowed out nicely. But the trouble is really with particular runs of felt. The perfect run that I get features a soft hat that is pliable almost like clay, and will hold any crease you put into it. Every now and then I will get in a run that seems not to do this very well. And, I don't know why this is. But for this type of felt, you need to beat the tar out of it, to get it to act right. You sure can't hurt the felt or the hat by doing so. The same goes for using steam. Most hats won't take a steaming without shrinking up when the steam dries. I have never had that problem with my hats. In fact. I steam them alot before they leave my shop. I have never owned another non vintage hat that would take the steam without shrinking up. Fedora

PM sent!

Fedora wrote:I could even take some pics, showing how well the lightweight beaver fits the bill for a Raiders fedora.

Please do, Steve! I would really love to see details of this hat with any crease, but a Raiders would be fine. Maybe you could try an LC first? That's my favorite bash. Thanks so much, in advance.

Hey Jason - so, any news about that idea of yours of making a "master list" of hats and bashes?

Don't let bink be right! He said

More often than not, folks drop the ball, the lists remain incomplete, and the thread fades away like an entire city covered in a sandstorm by the wrath of God.

please, I really want to tell him "In your face!"


(no offense bink, just kidding ).

Anyway, Jason, if you've got something, I'd suggest you to add it in this old thread

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41436&p=596768#p596768

Hummm. Since bink is a moderator of this section, and supported by years of observation myself, I hate to tell you but he will probably be right.

It appears this thread has dried up as well since the topic has changed and even posting links to send folks to other threads, so we'll drop the curtain on it.

Regards! Michaelson