Club Obi Wan

higher quality-made jacket?

One of my leather jackets, I absolutely LOVE. Feels great, fits great, looks great. I got it at a great price (around $250). I feel like a similar jacket at a mall store would cost like $700. But I understand at that price they aren't going to spend a lot of time on quality assurance. For example a large scarrish thing on one side of the front (well size of the marble anyway), a tad bit inconsistent leather (one side is very smooth the other side a little coarser etc) and nonuniform liner/stitching (well here's what I mean, it goes zipper then a tiny portion of liner then the stitching then the rest of the liner. But instead of the "tiny portion of liner" being uniform, at one part there is a huge amount sticking out well past the zipper.. sometimes it gets caught in the zipper.

Again as I said, understandable for this price. I would actually just like to pay extra $$ to get one that's nearly flawless in craftsmanship. How do I tactfully ask a company if they could do that? They sell more expensive jackets, not sure what the differences in quality are, but none if the goatskin I like.

Long boring post ahead! Read at your own risk of falling asleep at your computer...

You pretty much answered your own question.

In order to get higher quality, you will pay a higher price.

Also, the higher volume of jackets a vendor makes, the more people they will need to produce
their jackets. The more people who make the jackets, the less likely your going to get a consistant
product, since each person will make the jacket slightly different than the next.

So its pretty hard to get two jackets from them what will be EXACLTY alike, even if its the same
jacket style, in the same size, in the same leather type. One could be made better because that
person has been making jackets for 20 years. And the other one could be junk because the person
who made that one is new.

Just like cars, you can have two that are the same year, make, model, color, style, ect, and one
could be problem free for 100,000 miles, and the other could spend most of its time in the shop.
Why? You can't call up the car manufacturer and ask, hey, I am going to order a car from you,
so can you please make sure its flawless for me? I don't think that will happen.

The smaller the shop is, with less people actually making the jackets, cutting the patterns, sewing them
together and what not, the more likely you are to get a higher quality item, as its not mass produced, and
they have just one person making the jacket from start to finish. Its these people we call CRAFTSMEN, who
have been in the business for years and years, and take pride in what they make.

And, most probably, the vendor you are talking about has a manufacturing facility in some other
state, or even has some of their jackets made in china or some place like that, and they just
use the companies patterns, and just put the jackets together as fast as they can to put the
product out to the masses.

If you ask the vendor you are talking about to make a sleeve alteration, will they do it? Or
if you want a slight change to a pattern to accomodate your specific height or weight, will
they do it?

A place that can do custome work, or will allow changes in their patters to fit each individual
will usually be able to make a better product, but again, it will COST you more.

Also, you'll NEVER have flawless with any product that is man made, using natural items like leather. Leather has
flaws right from the animal. Natural scars, marks, and the grain in the hide will vary not only on
the same animal, from different parts of its body, but there is no way to get any two animals
with the same skin pattern unless you have a direct line to god, and ask him to make every single
animal of the same species exactly the same!

Also, high priced leather items use better cuts of leather as it comes from the animal, with the natural
scars, marks and grain as is. Believe it or not, that is a sign of high priced leather.

Low priced leather, in mall jackets for example, will use the cheaper cuts of leather, and the grain will be
pressed into it, resulting in every panel of the jacket matching exactly. This is a sign of a
cheaply made product, but most consumers like that, and don't know what real, high priced
leather goods actually look like.

A higher quality shop will try to match the grain from panel to panel, but they can never get it
to match exactly, as no two animals match exactly from nature.

A mall producer just takes the panels as they come, sews them together, and sends the jacket
out for sale. They don't take the time to match the panels.

Now, flaws like you are describing, with the lining not being uniform, or sticking out in places
is a sign of NO QUALITY CONTROL on the behalf of the vendor, and they should be ashamed
of themselves for letting a jacket with visible flaws go out the door. That is unless they stated
that the jacket was a "Factory second" or something like that.

Otherwise, you got took for a faulty product, and if you accepted it, then you have to live with
it as is.

If you want a higher quality jacket, then you will have to pay a higher price. If you want middle
of the road quailty, then you will pay a modest price. If you want a low quailty jacket, then you
will pay a low price.

But as I said, ask the vendor in question if they can make any alterations of their product to fit
you. If they say no, then you know they only make mall quality items for the masses. If they say
yes, we can make that change, then they are a vendor who will stand by their product, and will work
with you on getting a higher quality item.

As an example, there have been people on this website that have asked certain vendors to use different
thread in their jackets, and the vendor was more than happy to do so. But it cost more. But
they were willing to work with the customer, which is great!

Just ask and see what happens!!

Flathead

Lol I still have to read all of that
but let me say I DEFINITELY know I get what I pay for, and that's fine. If they sacrificed workmanship for better quality patterns and leather quality I'm happy. I absolutely LOVE this jacket to death.

So yeah there are little errors, like this:



or bigger pic

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7852/31014418.jpg

and on my last jacket one pocket was from a jacket size larger so one pocket was one inch taller than the other. And that's stuff I can live with at that price. But if I was WILLING to pay more for better quality but they don't have a product that flat out says "pay $50 more and you get quality control" wat do I say? "Can I pay XX amount of dollars for you to custom make me one that is as perfect as possible (not counting for differences in leather consistency)"

they do have one for $100 more but that's probably just for the cowhide leather and vintage finish, or another for $100 more that's for cowhide leather and a high quality leather.

Whoa, wait a sec...

A $250-range jacket had two different sized pockets? Um... that's not an inexpensive jacket quality. That's called an "irregular," as in, manufacturer error. That sort of thing would warrant an exchange. If all of their jackets are generally that flawed, then the company isn't worth buying from. If they wouldn't take that back (assuming you tried) then they are ripping you off. A crooked stitch or a slight flaw here and there, ok. But not an obvious screw-up. You can do much better for the $250 bracket... or you need to start returning bad merchandise. Perhaps you just don't realize what you're getting, but it sounds like the sort of thing you can live with is above and beyond what you should have to.

If this kind of workmanship is their standard level of quality, I wouldn't want their incompetent hands anywhere near pricey custom work. You'd be pretty much asking for a non-refundable piece of junk. My advice; run away... run like the cow they plan to butcher for the next jacket! On the other hand, if you just didn't realize that you had an item you should have exchanged (hey, we've all been green at one time or another. No shame in it.), then you can skip the custom request and just be more picky about what you keep and what you send back.

Chewbacca Jones wrote:Whoa, wait a sec...

A $250-range jacket had two different sized pockets? Um... that's not an inexpensive jacket quality. That's called an "irregular," as in, manufacturer error. That sort of thing would warrant an exchange. If all of their jackets are generally that flawed, then the company isn't worth buying from. If they wouldn't take that back (assuming you tried) then they are ripping you off. A crooked stitch or a slight flaw here and there, ok. But not an obvious screw-up. You can do much better for the $250 bracket... or you need to start returning bad merchandise. Perhaps you just don't realize what you're getting, but it sounds like the sort of thing you can live with is above and beyond what you should have to.

If this kind of workmanship is their standard level of quality, I wouldn't want their incompetent hands anywhere near pricey custom work. You'd be pretty much asking for a non-refundable piece of junk. My advice; run away... run like the cow they plan to butcher for the next jacket! On the other hand, if you just didn't realize that you had an item you should have exchanged (hey, we've all been green at one time or another. No shame in it.), then you can skip the custom request and just be more picky about what you keep and what you send back.

Yeah I exchanged it.
The second one I got had that lining irregularity but i can live with it.
So yeah basically what I want to ask them is "can I pay for GOOD quality?".. but it comes off insulting

So, in other words, what you're asking in essence amounts to, "Um, if I pay you a little extra will you do a better job?" Hmm, that would be a tough conversation starter, seems like you would have to soften it with a semi-related topic that was more flattering, pleasant or complimentary.

bigrex wrote:So, in other words, what your asking in essence amounts to, "Um, if I pay you a little extra will you do a better job?" Hmm, that would be a tough conversation starter, seems like you would have to soften it with a semi-related topic that was more flattering, pleasant or complimentary.

Exactly.

And I've read stories about people visiting the store in person and getting gruff from the owner for being picky.

OK. Whew! Glad the big problems were not an exemplar of the company's over-all workmanship.

I would say, you have a tough subject to broach. I say, start small if you can. Like an email that only asks if they do any custom leather jacket work at all. Don't tell them why. Play it off as research, which is true anyway. If they say 'no' then you have an answer and no harm done. If they say yes, then you might want to start a thread asking for opinions about that specific company's custom work. The process is longer, but you seem like the type who doesn't mind taking time to do his research.

I've read stories about people visiting the store in person and getting gruff from the owner for being picky.

Well, nobody likes to hear that their work isn't good enough, even when it's said with a smile.

Blue is that the second jacket you've bought that had odd pocket problems?
Your A-2 and a Raiders?

RCSignals wrote:Blue is that the second jacket you've bought that had odd pocket problems?
Your A-2 and a Raiders?

Indy jacket from Todd's had good quality/craftsmanship.

Both problems stem from the A-2. First one had the pocket issue, second hand the liner issue. Which is fine. Again I love the jacket to death, there are just signs of it not being "top shelf"

^ Um, can't you just trim off the excess lining and be done with it?

My US Wings A-2 2000 had a lesser degree of what is in your picture, but it doesn't bother me at all. There were a couple of loose stitches that I noticed, so I went a little OCD and reinforced them with needle and thread. The jacket's held up fine and looks plenty "high-quality."

Is the jacket you're refering to in this thread the same one you're singing praises about in the other?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=43193

Regards! Michaelson

Well, it IS a great jacket. Love the leather. Again for the price I paid it's a steal.