Club Obi Wan

Ok, so after coming to the conclusion that it doesn't make a ton of sense to rehab my old Wested, I've decided that I'm PROBABLY going to purchase a new jacket. I'm trying to decide, however, among the plethora ("Do you know what a 'plethora' is, Jefe?") of options, both in terms of manufacturers, and in terms of choices from each of those manufacturers.

I figured since COW is the source for all things Indy, I'd pose a few questions here and offer my own criteria and some background info on what I'm looking for. So, here we go.

Facts/Preferences:

1.) I tend to be more into Raiders as a film, so I prefer things to look more Raiders. I think. It's been a long time since I immersed myself with the options and such. On the other hand, I don't mind some practical tweaks here and there, like, say, concealed snaps on the storm flap, or a longer collar (see below for why).

2.) SA is not the holy grail for me. I'd prefer as much SA as possible, but other considerations rank higher. Those include durability, and how good it looks on me. Something could be absolutely 100% screen accurate and look awful on me. The good news is that I have a tailor in town from whom I can get my suit jacket measurements. So, conceivably, I could go with a custom jacket that is actually cut to my measurements. My point here is that I'm less concerned about box stitching vs. K stitching, D rings vs square rings, etc., especially if that'll kick up the price. On the other hand, if I'm getting something custom tailored to my measurements, throwing in the extra bits for ROTLA screen accuracy is fine by me (so a comprehensive list there would help -- didn't we used to have a sticky about this somewhere...?).

3.) Did I mention durability? 'Cause that really matters to me. I wear the Wested I have all throughout the spring and fall, and even stretch its use into the winter. This is not a costume jacket for me. This is an everyday wear jacket that also works for a costume. As such, I've determined that lambskin is not QUITE as durable as I'd prefer. Likewise with satin liners. These days I'm leaning towards goatskin for a compromise position between the drape of lambskin and the durability of other thicker hides.

4.) I'm not interested in looking like a flying squirrel nor having my jacket rise up four inches when it's zipped and I spread my arms or reach above me. Thoughts on this?

5.) One thing I noticed re: my Wested was that the collar often just kinda lay flat against the jacket. It didn't really seem to stand up that well. As a result, my shirt collar would often ride up OVER the jacket collar. I don't mind if my shirt collar pokes out some, but I'd prefer the shirt collar flap not to obscure the jacket collar flap. Shirts go on the inside, to my way of thinking.

6.) At the absolute latest, I'd like this new jacket by Halloween. It's not the end of the world if I don't get it, of course. My old jacket will suffice. But I'd like to get the jacket sooner rather than later. So, speed and getting it right the first time are concerns for me. That said, I'll sacrifice on this for long-term durability and price.

7.) I ain't spendin' more than $500. I'd prefer to keep it to not more than $300. Unless, of course, the thing can last me the next 20 years, in which case $500 is worth it. I doubt we have field tests on that yet, though.

Ok, so, with that in mind, a few questions:

A.) Wested? Todd's? Nowak? Magnoli? Wings? Flightsuits? Vinnie who keeps telling me the jackets are "strictly legit" and "fell off the back of a truck"? Overall, based on my criteria, which do you guys recommend as manufacturer, and why?

B.) How do I address that collar thing, and have you guys had a similar experience with that? I like that the collar doesn't clip my chin when I turn my head or whatever, and seems to move some, but as time wore on, the collar flaps on the ol' Wested just seemed to fall down on the job, literally.

C.) What's the deal with the "80s cut"? What are all the combos out there for the various manufacturers? I've seen people talking about a Tony Nowak jacket with a Boeing 747/mk 39.14 finish (or whatever), but didn't see that on his website.

D.) Anything to watch out for or keep in mind that I haven't thought of? Any general tips or thoughts?

Well... since you are looking more or less for Raiders, super SA and very durable, I have to say get a Nowak. Even though you don't want to spend that much, his Raiders jacket will cover off everything you are looking for, and it will fit perfect. These are the reasons I'm calling Tony very very shortly to get one made for me. I'm sure if you speak to him, he may be able to accomdate the request by Halloween, but make sure you speak to him about it because I don't know what his times are.

Ok, so what're the options there as far as material, cut, etc.?

This is just with regards to leather (should you order from Wested): It sounds like you would be leaning towards goatskin, since you want added durability. Keep in mind, your lambskin jacket from 2001 is probably dark brown, as Wested had not yet sourced "Authentic Brown." If you order a goat jacket, your only option is authentic brown, unless you go with the washed goat. You may not like the color... If you want added durability in a color that approximates what you already have, you may want to consider horsehide. Just a thought...

Sorry to correct you Forest, but they do have a dark brown goatskin still in. Not a lot of it but they do still have some.

I'm kind of leaning away from Wested, actually, more because I'd prefer to buy stateside to save time and because I know they can get kind of swamped this time of year. From digging around on here, I'm actually kind of intrigued about a Tony Nowak jacket, although I don't know what their story is on durability for their various materials, nor even what all the options are.

Well, the Nowak Indy jackets haven't been around long enough for perhaps a definite statement on durability. But I will say that they are very well made with top grade materials so they should last for years and years. I plan on mine being very good friends for years.

To be fair though, Nowak (while I think they are definitely worth it) are outside of your stated budget.

Nowak's more than $500?! What are we talking here?

Solo4114 wrote:I'm kind of leaning away from Wested, actually, more because I'd prefer to buy stateside to save time and because I know they can get kind of swamped this time of year. From digging around on here, I'm actually kind of intrigued about a Tony Nowak jacket, although I don't know what their story is on durability for their various materials, nor even what all the options are.

That's cool. Your ducks seem to be lining up on G&B or Wings. For fit probably for G&B. Price taken into account.

Hmm...nice, but again, I'd prefer custom. Doesn't Magnoli do custom work within my price range? I mean, he's right at the limit from what I saw on the site, but if the goatskin version he sells holds up, it might be worth it.

As far as I'm concerned (and some others, too) there's only one choice if you want a complete custom with just about any leather you could imagine and 100% great service to boot: Tony Nowak.

You can get all but a few of his more "exotic" leather choices for $775, including FedEx shipping to your door. There are no extra costs for any sizing changes, different lining colors or embroidery (or non at all if you prefer), extra inside pockets, different size and color zips and hardware, and if you need to return the jacket to have something changed Tony will take care it at his cost. No joke, if you want a jacket with a little wide collar, an inch longer sleeves, pockets an extra half inch wide, facings or no facings, Tony will give you what you.

So if you have a budget of $500, it won't take too long to wait to come up with less than $300 more to get a jacket you're certain to be excited about. And most certainly it will be YOUR jacket as each one has tons of character. Tony will even distress it based off screen shots you send him if that's your thing.

Judging from the two I have, the construction is excellent and I see no reason a cow or goat Nowak won't last as long as you do.

Yikes...$775...I mean, I'm sure it's an awesome jacket, but that's just a wee bit steep for me. Still, I appreciate the info. Maybe if that change jar fills up enough...

What other jackets do you guys have?

I have a US Wings Jacket, it's going to fit the durable department your looking for and come close to the $500 limit. I love mine but I'm also looking around for a new custom fit jacket. If $500 is your budget, the Nowak is definately out of your price range so if a custom fit is what you require that leaves only Magnoli, Todd's and Wested.

And since you don't want another Wested... that narrow's your choice down to two. Search the threads, you should find what you need.

Good Luck!!!

Solo, you're asking for a complete custom with tweaks and you are also wanting something to last 20 years. In all honesty you won't find that for $300.

Not sure why the Halloween deadline matters with something you plan to wear for so long - I mean you already have an Indy jacket for your costume this year. To each his own, of course!

If you'd invest $500, I don't think another $275 is that much more considering you'll be getting EXACTLY what you ask for from Tony. Take that extra $275 and divide it over the years you plan to be wearing it and your talking about pocket change over the life of the item.

And if it's goat you want, and that's my first choice, Tony has an amazing selection of goat colors and finishes. Here's mine:

Wow! That looks great!

I'm not necessarily ruling Tony out, and the Halloween deadline only sort of matters. The existing Wested I have is fine. It's just wearing out in the liner, and there's a tear in the leather where the strap is stitched to the jacket near one of the hand warmers.

I'm also leaning towards a custom because the Wested I had, while very nice, was an "off the rack." While it fit me decently, it was never quite what I wanted it to be, and I think that comes from having a jacket actually cut to fit you.

For me, $775 is a lot of money. I'm rehabbing a house, so the extra $275 does matter. Even aside from that, I know where $275 could go in other aspects of my life (IE: dates -- the good kind, not the poisoned kind that kill monkeys, wine, home repair, tools, new TV, other electronics, etc.). For me, $300 is ideal, $500 is max, $700 would be pushing it. On the other hand, if it's really going to last that long, then the $700 is worth it. I have other expensive clothing that is made REALLY well, so I'm willing to pay for quality craftsmanship. Plus, it's not like I can't save the extra money, it's more just a question of priorities.

Really, I'd need to figure out what the options are, which is why I posted this thread in the first place. The info is definitely helpful, though. And the pictures do make Tony's work tempting.

Raider S, you lucked out because the current price of goat from Tony is the $950 tier. I'm pulling the trigger next month!

I think the advice to not sweat about Halloween is an excellent one, unless he's looking to bank major bucks in costume contests (but I don't think you will with an Indy costume!)

No, not looking to make bank in costume contests. Indy costumes never win anyway, especially because so many people do such bad (but still recognizable) costumes. But whatever. Pearls before swine.

$950 is out of my range. I simply can't justify spending that kind of money on a jacket, even if it will last me 20 years. If that's what Tony's up to, unfortunately I guess I'll have to look elsewhere.

Tony Nowak's work is at the top of the jacket spectrum, but he isn't cheap. My Raiders jacket in his "747" cowhide was $750 plus shipping, and I believe that is as "cheap" as his Raiders jackets get. (His KotCS offerings may be closer to $650 if I remember rightly.) You can read about the jacket and see pics in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42563. Suffice it to say I think very highly of Tony and his work. I haven't owned it long enough to comment on its durability, but it seems very well made with high-quality materials and stitching.

If you want a custom jacket that's not a Wested and can't afford a Nowak, I would take a look at Todd's Costumes and Magnoli. (It appears that G&B may also be doing custom work again, but the customization charges would push the cost above your $500 threshold.)

For non-custom, G&B or Wings would be the way to go.

There are other ways to obtain a Nowak if you have insufficient funds......have a garage sale or sell some of your other Indy stuff (or mortgage your house.....just kidding! ).......or look around in Cairo Bazaar or on Ebay.....some Nowaks do pop up there from time to time. Whatever the case, do what you can to get one because it's so worth it! I have a CS and a Raiders Shrunken Lamb and it miles ahead of other Indy jackets I've owned over the years (and I have owned about 14 at one time or another!). The quality, workmanship and the detail that goes into these jackets are amazing! If I had more money right now I would buy a dozen more! If you have the patience to wait and save more money to get a Nowak, do it!.....you'll never regret it!

It's really tempting, but for me, $950...I just can't justify it to myself. $950 buys a LOT of house rehab (and boy do I have a lot to do...), or gets me a little over 1/3 towards my goal for a new TV. I'm not judging other folks who prioritize differently, mind you. People should spend their money on whatever makes their engine run. But for me, my other priorities just push the Nowak out of my range, unfortunately.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Magnoli or a Todd's for a custom one. Possibly the Magnoli because he offers a goatskin option.

Before you take as gospel any information on the exact prices of Tony's leather choices, you really need to speak with him directly. He does have some leathers that are $950 but not all are. I can't say for certain all the goat are the same price.

And, what will the final price of that Magnoli or Todd's come out to? If you're in no hurry, take the time to think about it. Tony won't be making these forever (unless there's an Indy V and he get the job to do those...).

Raider S wrote:Before you take as gospel any information on the exact prices of Tony's leather choices, you really need to speak with him directly. He does have some leathers that are $950 but not all are. I can't say for certain all the goat are the same price.

Good point, Raider S, but that is HORRIBLE advice. If he calls up Tony, he'll definitely end up buying a jacket from him

Baldwyn wrote:Raider S, you lucked out because the current price of goat from Tony is the $950 tier. ..........

It depends on which goat skin you chose

that_dog wrote:...............

If you want a custom jacket that's not a Wested and can't afford a Nowak, I would take a look at Todd's Costumes and Magnoli. (It appears that G&B may also be doing custom work again, but the customization charges would push the cost above your $500 threshold.)

For non-custom, G&B or Wings would be the way to go.

Agreed, if he wants a 'custom' he should not rule out Todd's or Magnoli for his price range

Tony probably crafts the best custom job out there right now from what I can tell, but if you are serious about staying in the $500 range, Todd's and Magnoli are the only two custom jackets in that range. I will skip over Wested only because you have already stated that you are looking toward other vendors. Indy Magnoli and Todd Coyle jackets are both a little over $500 with shipping, but they both do good work from what I have observed online. Tony would most likely have a wider selection of hides, but if you are looking for lambskin, goat, or cow, Todd and Magnoli can help you. In fact, I would ask them if they have anything else available, because maybe that is not set in stone as far as custom jackets are concerned? Online, Magnoli offers goat and lamb in the $500 range (add $200 for cowhide), and he can distress them for you if requested, Todd's custom comes in cow, pre-washed cow, lamb and pre-washed lamb.

http://www.magnoliclothiers.com/-p-109.html

http://www.toddscostumes.com/cgi/commer ... egory=3563

You may also be able to go with a non-custom job, but keep in mind that US Wings caters to big guys. Although I'm 5'10.5" I'm not heavy and would require an extra small to fit me right and they don't make them. Todd's fits me all right, but can be small on some of the bigger boned guys, but I think he now has two types of small through large sizing to help cater to both builds. Gibson and Barnes makes a well built jacket, but I don't care for the way the leather drapes in the sleeves myself. Personally, I think my next jacket will be a Tony Nowak, but that will not be happening by Halloween. If I ever get a Magnoli it will probably be this jacket, looks good to me:

http://www.magnoliclothiers.com/hero-ja ... p-153.html

Good luck!

(This concludes our public service announcement and tariff free commercial)

I would have to echo the recommendations for Todd or Magnoli. I was going to order a Magnoli myself before I caught Nowak Fever.

Jack

I've already talked about my good experience with Magnoli but I would be amiss not to mention Todd's as well. I've had a custom Todd's and it was well made and the leather was very nice as well. Todd was great to deal with. Again, based on your criteria, Todd's or Magnoli would be the way to go. You won't go wrong with either.

Cool. Any tips on options for either of the two? What're the major differences between them in terms of style, fit, and the leather they use? I've heard Todd's jackets are pretty thin/lightweight. How do Magnoli's compare?

why dont you contact them and hear? they have the answers.

I likely will, but I'm also curious as to people's experiences and thoughts on the subject, especially those who've owned one from each of them.

Raider S wrote:Solo, you're asking for a complete custom with tweaks and you are also wanting something to last 20 years. In all honesty you won't find that for $300.

Not sure why the Halloween deadline matters with something you plan to wear for so long - I mean you already have an Indy jacket for your costume this year. To each his own, of course!

If you'd invest $500, I don't think another $275 is that much more considering you'll be getting EXACTLY what you ask for from Tony. Take that extra $275 and divide it over the years you plan to be wearing it and your talking about pocket change over the life of the item.

And if it's goat you want, and that's my first choice, Tony has an amazing selection of goat colors and finishes. Here's mine:

WOW! That thing is incredible! Makes me almost regret ordering the 747 Raiders. Plus, I told Tony to put in the "leather facing" on the inside near the zipper. He said it's not SA, but it will make for a longer last jacket (at least the inside part), but many say the inside facing keeps the zipper from doing the SA wavy thing.

But, hopefully when my 747 shows up, I won't even care. But still, YOURS is fantastic looking, and VERY SA IMHO!

DHW

I went through the "I need an Indyesque durable jacket for at a reasonable price point" stage and ended opting for the US Wings Signature Series Goat Skin Adventure Jacket. As it turns out their large might as well have been sketched out with me in mind. I've had it for a year and am very pleased with it. It happens to be on sale at the moment.

Not trying to go too off topic, but don't sweat it too bad DHW. If I'm right, the jacket RaiderS posted was made from some vintage goat that Tony only had enough of to make two jackets. I've got a 747 on order as well and I can't wait. The leather looks spectacular.

Back on topic, I know you've indicated a desire to go the custom route but US Wings is having a big sale (only a couple of days left). I absolutely loved my CE and with the $100 COW discount on top of the sale price, you could get one for $299 (verify that first). There are some SA differences that put off some people (and you really need to check with them on sizing as Wings Indy jackets run big) but if you're looking for an Indy vibe to a jacket and not sweating the small details, you couldn't go wrong with any of their Indy jackets.

Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out. I'd heard about Wings running big, which is part of my reluctance to buy from them. I've been wearing my beat-up Wested lately and I don't mind it, although the liner really is in bad shape all over. It'll function fine for Halloween, so the deadline isn't as critical (although I wouldn't mind getting a new goatskin jacket for Halloween).

Anyway, I think I'll shoot Todd and Indy Magnoli an email and see what we can figure out.

Thanks for the help everyone, and please, feel free to post your suggestions/thoughts if you have any more on the subject.

For what it's worth, I just got off the phone with US Wings and they gave me some measurements for their CE jacket that appear to indicate they don't run as big as they used to.
They do seem to be longer than others, though.

For a medium:
across chest - 18.25"
shoulder to shoulder across the back: 20.25"
back length: medium reg: 27.25", medium long: 29.25"
sleeves: medium reg: 35.25", medium long: 36.25" (back of neck, over shoulder, to wrist.)

For a large:
across chest - 19.25"
shoulder to shoulder across the back: 21.25"
back length: large reg: 27.25", large long: 29.25" (yes, these are the same as with the mediums, not a typo)
sleeves: large reg: 36", large long: 37" (back of neck, over shoulder, to wrist.)

These were given to me over the phone and were read off their system, not actually measured from a jacket in hand. So, take it with a grain of salt, I guess. Better yet, call them if you're serious about it and ask them to grab one and measure for real.

Those chest measurements can't be right...

DHW, I also have a 747 and it's spectacular - you will love that thing! After getting it wet the sleeves have wrinkled up just like the ones in the photo. Also, my goat jacket has facings and gets wave in the zipper, so don't sweat it. Tony is right about the jacket lasting longer and I think you'll find you made a good choice.

On subject, I'm still amazed there aren't more Magnoli jacket photos around.

I've had a Wested and I've had a Todds custom. The Todd jacket was far superior in terms of capturing the look of the film jackets. I've now got a Magnoli on order for which I have very high hopes given the quality of other products I've had from him. The TN seems very expensive - plus I suppose the CS jacket is my least favourite which kind of puts me off a jacket from the guy who made it. Silly I know.

Just so folks can see why I want to get a new jacket, figured I'd upload these photos.




This is the shredded liner, which, as you can see, is REALLY falling apart.



Here's where the leather started to tear.



In this shot and the next, you can see the liner has worn away where it joins the sleeve.



The red circle is a spot on the jacket sleeve that has worn through. That's a hole in the leather, actually.


So, that's my main reason for wanting a new jacket, and for wanting goat this time around. This is a 2001-era Wested Authentic Lambskin Raiders jacket.

I believe you got your money's worth out of this one.

Regards! Michaelson

Id say have it relined and buy a leather care kitt for glueing that cuff hole shut. and then wear the thing.

Relining and a few stiches or glue will bring it back. If you can be bothered...

Yeah, but I'm not sure where to get it relined, short of sending it back to Wested. Plus, I'd still like a goatskin one, too. And I figure if I'm shelling out $100 or more to get it relined/rehabbed, I might as well get a new one. Maybe end up selling the old one on the boards here to offset the new purchase.

To be very honest, I don't care for the way that leather aged - smooth, little grain, and stark undertones.

If it were mine, I'd yank out what remains of the lining (or try to patch it myself with an old shirt or material I had on hand), then going to town giving it a sandpaper distress, Pecard it and use it for your costume.

Then concentrate on your new goat jacket from whatever maker you decide.

Yeah, I wasn't entirely happy with how the leather aged either. The undertone of the leather was very very different from the top layer and just didn't sit well with me visually. I'm not gonna trash the thing just yet, but my focus is to get a new goatskin one which will hopefully age more naturally and then figure out what to do with the old one. This one will serve me fine for Halloween if I can't get a goatskin one in time, but after that I'll likely retire it. I may sell it here and let someone else deal with it. Probably let it go for, like, $150 or something (which I think is half off a new one) and let someone else rehab it as they see fit.

Unfortunately, folks will probably come to the exact same conclusion, as once they've invested $150 in purchasing the jacket, then pay for a refirb, they, too, could have opted to just buy a new jacket as well.

Good luck! If it were me, I think I'd just retire that (or use it as nothing but a costume piece), then just bite the bullet and get a good goatskin from one of our vendors.

Regards! Michaelson

Well, I may play with the price point. Or I might rehab it myself. I just figure why let the jacket go to waste? Just because I want a goatskin one and am ambivalent about rehabbing it doesn't mean that someone else couldn't put it to good use. I suppose I could always ebay the thing. An ebayer might not care about the condition of the liner or leather, and might be totally cool with the condition it's in. >shrug< Come to think of it, i have an old LL Bean bomber jacket that I could probably do the same with...

best joke ever...

What is? The LL Bean jacket thing? I wouldn't list that as an Indy jacket on ebay. Just remembered I had it somewhere at my folks' place and could sell it on ebay.