Club Obi Wan

is there anyone who would be intrested in a brading tutorial,
for 4 to 8 plait in round and flat? if there is enough need i would
love to make one.
mola

Im in.

I'm in too.....

Count me in.

Sounds interesting!

So, let's get started. We all want to learn something. I am sure others will contribute too.

I am in the middle of making a 10 foot 12 plait kangaroo "Indy". I have just put on the 2nd bolster over the 2nd belly and now in process of cutting out the laces for the overlay. I need to cut the laces out on a taper, going around the kangaroo hide. Most people that aren't aware of kangaroo skins but more familiar with cowhides are used to cutting on a straight line across the back of the hide. On kangaroo you basically cut in a circular pattern working from the outside going in concentric circles.

I must cut the laces about 18 feet long. That is over 200 feet of cut lace. Whenever consdering making a whip or any type of braiding project such as a braided belt you must cut your laces much longer than desired length. Say for a 36" belt you would cut laces almost 6 feet long. It's better to go a little long then too short. Ask the carpenter who built your house.

During the braiding process the laces are going around and under and over. You are actually making two layers with each set.

I would like to post some pictures of in-process work here but don't understand how to post them here. Can someone help me on that? I see the IMG button but don't understand how all that works. Sergei, I see that you post a lot of pics here. Maybe you can shed some light. Is it supposed to be on the net or can I send it from my hard drive?

Robert,

You must have your image located on a server somewhere. Either an image hosting site or your own website will host them. You then the IMG button once will place a tag like [img] this in the window. You must then place the url of where your image located. i.e. http://www.yahoo.com/image.jpg and then hit the Img* button again which will close out the tag for you. You can then hit preview to see if shows up correctly.

I think this is a great idea!

However, my biggest question is on how everything fits together, especially on the handle and the handle/thong junction, and in what order the layers are put on starting from the nail spike and working outwards. I'd love to see a cross-section drawing or something that would help me visualize the layers and how they all fit together.

I don't show off a newly made whip without a turkshead. I hate to judge a whip before the turkshead is on because though the plaiting may be the best every possibly done, it just isn't complete without the turkshead on. I'd rather not show a whip without it, but here goes the guts here as requested. I shot a series of photos and can go back and forwards in the process ... whatever. Here I just finished plaiting, tied on the fall and rolled it. What has just happened in this picture is where I cut off the excess leather that was hanging out past the end where I put the whip into a vise while plaiting. You see my shears, some little bits of leather and the waxed sinew wrapped on the end. If you look close you can see the shiny end of the head of the nail.

http://www.dukewhips.com/indygear.htm

During preview it looks like I couldn't get the picture from my webpage to show up as you told me. I need HELP!
So, I posted the url. I put the url between the 2 IMG codes....hmm

This http://www.dukewhips.com/tied__cut.jpg is what needs to go between the img codes to make this:

The image name is actually 'http://www.dukewhips.com/tied__cut.jpg' (notice the two underscores used: 'tied_ _cut.jpg').

But the url you used in between the IMG tags only has the one underscore: 'http://www.dukewhips.com/tied_cut.jpg'. Hence, all we see is the old 'broken image' symbol.

It's an easy mistake to make.

[EDIT... beaten to it by Blackthorne Rose ]

I tried that exact url but it didn't work either. Let's try it again.

Here is before I cut the excess leather that runs above the nail. This portion is put into a vise to be held tight and to prevent the twist and roll of the plaiting that is occasionally seen in a whip. You want to make sure and tie it very tight before cutting the excess off.



ah ha! I got it and thanks for your help.

By the way, this was a "Saddle tan" colored Indy that went to New York CIty a month ago. Most Indy Gear heads want the Natural Tan, which is very light.

Thanks for the pics.

So, it looks like you plait the handle overlay from a separate piece of leather that lies over the leather that gets plaited into the thong overlay. Is that right?

And for this handle overlay, you start at the nailhead end and then plait the handle section toward the thong, and then tie it into the turkshead at the handle/thong junciton? Am I seeing that right?

So, it looks like you plait the handle overlay from a separate piece of leather that lies over the leather that gets plaited into the thong overlay. Is that right?

Kinda sorta. On an Indy bullwhip you will have 9 layers of leather. Nail/rolled core = 1; 1st belly = 2 layers (goes over the nail and core beginning at the nailhead), 1st bolster = 1 layer (over the first belly); 2nd belly = 2 layers; 2nd bolster = 1 layer.
The overlay = 2 layers.
Total layers of leather = 9

And for this handle overlay, you start at the nailhead end and then plait the handle section toward the thong, and then tie it into the turkshead at the handle/thong junciton? Am I seeing that right?

That sounds confusing. Start the plaiting at the nail head doing the chessboard plait or diamond plait about 8" or so, then into the herringbone or whipmaker's plait. This plait continues down to the desired length, fall hitched on, then rolled.
The tieing into the turkshead sounds funny, but I want the terms to be clear. Once rolled, tied and excess leather cut as shown in the above pics, then a foundation for the turkshead is put on where the nailhead is. That is you build up a foundation with lead tape,leather strips and waxed sinew and form it into the base shape. The turkshead can then be tied on your fingers and slipped on or tied right on the knob. I prefer doing it on my fingers and slipping it on. I use the same knot on both the butt and on the upper handle. Before slipping the turkshead on I plait a 5 strand wrist strap. It's a flat braid going about 16" or so. Start out with about 24" of laces and you're good to go. Once it's plaited I smooth it on a corner, much like rolling a round braid. More pictures on this will come later if you like.

PropReplicator wrote:Thanks for the pics.

So, it looks like you plait the handle overlay from a separate piece of leather that lies over the leather that gets plaited into the thong overlay. Is that right?

And for this handle overlay, you start at the nailhead end and then plait the handle section toward the thong, and then tie it into the turkshead at the handle/thong junciton? Am I seeing that right?

Nope. The entire overlay is started right at the butt end of the nail. The entire grip is the same set of strands that continue off the nail and become the thong overlay. They are not two different sets of braided leather done separately. In a twelve plait bullwhip there are at least six strands that start out at the butt knot and travel all the way down the whip and attach to the fall. (The other six strands are dropped at different points along the way.) Hope that makes sense.

-Edge

The entire overlay is started right at the butt end of the nail. The entire grip is the same set of strands that continue off the nail and become the thong overlay. They are not two different sets of braided leather done separately.

Not always, but on Indy whips, it's usually so. There is no exact, right way. Ron Edwards says everyone is right. Don't argue with a whipmaker in other words, because each has his opinion about what's right and what's wrong. My point in this case is that some whipmakers that are making some fancy high plait whips might have a 32 plait two-tone handle and a 24 plait thong. You might think, "How is that done?" Good question, but best left to figure out on your own when you become accomplished whipmaker...

In a twelve plait bullwhip there are at least six strands that start out at the butt knot and travel all the way down the whip and attach to the fall. (The other six strands are dropped at different points along the way.)

There's another one. Most whipmakers drop only 4 strands on a 12 plait whip ending in 8 plaits. Some will do it in 6. I've seen some end in 10, but the laces have to be really tapered very thin there.
There's really nothing wrong with dropping 6 strings, but I don't, and neither do most others.

Robert Duke wrote: Not always, but on Indy whips, it's usually so. There is no exact, right way. Ron Edwards says everyone is right. Don't argue with a whipmaker in other words, because each has his opinion about what's right and what's wrong. My point in this case is that some whipmakers that are making some fancy high plait whips might have a 32 plait two-tone handle and a 24 plait thong. You might think, "How is that done?" Good question, but best left to figure out on your own when you become accomplished whipmaker...

Here at IndyGear when folks ask about bullwhip construction they are more often than not interested in the "Indy" or Morgan style of bullwhip. So I tailor my responses to that. Obviously braiding the overlay from the handle butt is not the only style of whip making.

Robert Duke wrote:There's another one. Most whipmakers drop only 4 strands on a 12 plait whip ending in 8 plaits. Some will do it in 6. I've seen some end in 10, but the laces have to be really tapered very thin there.
There's really nothing wrong with dropping 6 strings, but I don't, and neither do most others.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this point but I'm not going to argue with you. However, if you'll notice I said, "at least," six strands and not only six strands.

-Edge

Touchy touchy



It will be very interesting if they use another whipmaker for INDY IV.

Who is edge?

Well, i would love to do it...i will type it and host it off my website.
if you would like to contribute please send me a pm, i will
be hosting it off of my website and i am thinking about a
.com. Thanks for the responses anyone that has a
idea or would like to contribute with pictures
please pm me. I will probaly end up making a basic
bull whip tutorial also...
Kindest Regards
Mola

Thanks for setting me straight, guys. I didn't mean to start an argument.

PropReplicator wrote:Thanks for setting me straight, guys. I didn't mean to start an argument.

No argument here.

Robert Duke wrote:Who is edge?

I am.

I usually end my whips with an 8 plait point. No particular reason other than I just like the way it looks. Just my .02.

Jim

If you would like to go to
http://www.em-brand-whips.com/bullwhiptutorial.htm you will find 4 pages on how to make a bull whip with lots of photos from the nail to the turks head knot.

Bernie, I LOVE that tutorial. I printed it out and started working on a nylon whip for my son yesterday. It's extremely helpful. Thanks!!

Thanks PropReplicator.
If any one does look at the tutorial read it carefully or print it out for later,that's what it's there for.I've done this so that #1.People can read and see what goes into making a bull whip and #2.For anyone interested in having a go at making a whip this should get you started if you can plait.
regards
Bernie

I know the core of the whip is not the actual length. As each successive belly is added does the thong continually lengthen until the final desire length is reached. For example for a 10 foot whip: 5 foot core plus 5 foot nail=5'8", 6plait belly to length of core, at this point on which belly and bolster combo does the whip length increase? I figure if the total length was done on the second or third belly that it would be too thick once the final overlay is reached? Does this make sense?