Club Obi Wan

This may be a silly question, so forgive me for asking! Is the fedora worn throughout the movies on all of Indy's adventures supposed to be the same hat the man known as fedora placed on his head in the last crusade? Or is it just a style he stuck with throughout his life? It may be a question that is based on each of our own speculation, but I am curious if someone has an answer.

Best regards,
Beaverlid

I like to think he switched hats up considering how drastically they change from film to film. Perhaps Indy 5 will feature a closet shot and we'll see his collection of beat up older fedora he is no longer wearing. But of course he never loses one in the course of an adventure!

I think he rebashes it a lot like at the of Temple of doom he gets it wet so it's possible rebashes it into a taller version then he rebashes it again after it is returned to him in Raiders from Sallah or Katanga and then in Last Crusade he rebashes it in the beginning after Portagual and then twenty years later he reabashes it again!

Right?

I'm sure it's supposed to be different hats, much the same as the rest of his gear gets replaced as it wears out over the course of his adventures. We saw an entire closet full of spare clothing in Raiders, so it's clear Indy has a "style" for his adventure gear. Besides, I'm not sure there's a hatter in the world that could bring a hat back to life after the abuse Indy puts his through.

Ford said in a magazine interview last year that yes, it is the same hat given to him by Fedora that Indy wears throughout the entire seriers. I recall reading the interview after seeing it discussed here or on another Indy forum-- but I can't remember in which magazine it appeared-- maybe someone else does.

Jack

Here's the Ford quote: http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... 899&hilit=

I've always thought the hat was the same, even if he goes through different jackets, bags, etc. The hat always seemed special.

Of course, the hat he wears in Nevada at the beginning of KotCS would have to be burned after being exposed to nuclear radiation, though, right?

RelicHunter wrote:Here's the Ford quote: http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... 899&hilit=

I've always thought the hat was the same, even if he goes through different jackets, bags, etc. The hat always seemed special.

Of course, the hat he wears in Nevada at the beginning of KotCS would have to be burned after being exposed to nuclear radiation, though, right?

Yes, I've thought that myself-- along with all his other clothes, of course.

Jack

I believe it is supposed to be the same faithful, well-beaten one, as is his jacket and bullwhip. I don't think we're intended to think this character has a wardrobe full of identical stuff or that he regularly goes to the same hatter, tailor or whipmaker. He just has a selection of dependable items which have been with him for years, and we're expected to turn a convenient blind-eye to any apparent damage or losses incurred along the way.

I guess it may have been a silly question, but others were asking the same one. Thanks for posting that link to Ford saying it was the same hat Relichunter.

beaverlid wrote:I guess it may have been a silly question, but others were asking the same one. Thanks for posting that link to Ford saying it was the same hat Relichunter.

No problem. And just remember, there are no silly questions, only silly answers.

WinstonWolf359 wrote:I'm sure it's supposed to be different hats, much the same as the rest of his gear gets replaced as it wears out over the course of his adventures.

It's subjective, but this is my take as well. Take the jacket in Raiders, for instance. Bullet hole and blood stains on the left arm, dragged to pieces. This was not the same jacket as the one in LC, timeline, two years later. I say he had a local taylor, went to him for another jacket after the adventure, for a new jacket. This would account for the similarities AND the differences. Same with the hat, a local hat supplier. Rotation...a "new" old hat as the new adventure hat as the old one finally wears out, is lost or blows off his head while chasing the bad guys.

Satipo wrote:I don't think we're intended to think this character has a wardrobe full of identical stuff or that he regularly goes to the same hatter, tailor or whipmaker.

In Raiders, when Indy's talking to Marcus while packing his suitcase you clearly see a closet with several leather jackets and khaki shirts...I think we ARE supposed to believe he has a wardrobe full of matching gear, because they showed us one.

Here's an old idea of mine

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=41613&hilit=indy+accurate

WinstonWolf359 wrote: In Raiders, when Indy's talking to Marcus while packing his suitcase you clearly see a closet with several leather jackets and khaki shirts...I think we ARE supposed to believe he has a wardrobe full of matching gear, because they showed us one.

I disagree...



I can only pick out one jacket that remotely resembles a leather jacket, and the rest are blazers and shirts, with not a single khaki shirt in sight?

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28213

Continuity wise, the jacket is different. The hat is different. The differences are slight, nevertheless, they are present.

The fact that it's supposed to be the same hat gives it more significance and makes it a lot more interesting, I think. If it was just one of several hats from his wardrobe and not something very special to him, Indy would hardly have risked his arm to rescue it in the Temple Of Doom, for example.

In the original RAIDERS script, Indy does say the adventure cost him his favorite hat, but that line was taken out; perhaps because they realized the potent symbolism of the single hat that would survive all of Indy's adventures along with him.

Jack

eazybox wrote:The fact that it's supposed to be the same hat gives it more significance and makes it a lot more interesting, I think. If it was just one of several hats from his wardrobe and not something very special to him, Indy would hardly have risked his arm to rescue it in the Temple Of Doom, for example.

eazybox your statement is along the same lines I am thinking about his fedora. Good post!

If it was real life, I would say maybe. Story-wise, yes. How it appears in the films, no. The only way that the appearance of the hat in the different films could be explained (if we go with the story that it [img]is[/img] the same hat) is if it was rebuilt. If it is the same hat that would explain his attachment to it. Indy doesn't appear to be very picky about block shape, bashes, ribbons and bows.

I do find it amazing that Indy is able to find the same shirt and pants from whenever he starts wearing that outfit until 1957 and beyond. I can accept that it is the same bag, from the Temple of Doom on.

Dangerman

I believe that the hat in Raiders was lost to I.J. When we see him in the sub pen after his amazing ride on a submerged U-Boat across the Mediterranean, he's all wet and without his hat. It had to have been lost during his undersea ride.

alphared6 wrote:I believe that the hat in Raiders was lost to I.J. When we see him in the sub pen after his amazing ride on a submerged U-Boat across the Mediterranean, he's all wet and without his hat. It had to have been lost during his undersea ride.

I think the last time we see the brown fedora in Raiders is when Marion takes it off of Indy to kiss his forehead on the boat. The next morning, Indy is not wearing it when he asks Katanga (sp?) why the engines have stopped, nor do we see him wear it before getting on the submarine. The hat is wherever Marion tossed it.

best wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

Insomniac wrote:I think he rebashes it a lot like at the of Temple of doom he gets it wet so it's possible rebashes it into a taller version then he rebashes it again after it is returned to him in Raiders from Sallah or Katanga and then in Last Crusade he rebashes it in the beginning after Portagual and then twenty years later he reabashes it again!

Right?

I believe the backstory is that Katanga found it and had it returned to Indy.

Nebraska Schulte wrote:

alphared6 wrote:I believe that the hat in Raiders was lost to I.J. When we see him in the sub pen after his amazing ride on a submerged U-Boat across the Mediterranean, he's all wet and without his hat. It had to have been lost during his undersea ride.

I think the last time we see the brown fedora in Raiders is when Marion takes it off of Indy to kiss his forehead on the boat. The next morning, Indy is not wearing it when he asks Katanga (sp?) why the engines have stopped, nor do we see him wear it before getting on the submarine. The hat is wherever Marion tossed it.
best wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

beaverlid wrote:I believe the backstory is that Katanga found it and had it returned to Indy.

I knew I liked that CPT Katanga!

Dangerman009 wrote:I do find it amazing that Indy is able to find the same shirt and pants from whenever he starts wearing that outfit until 1957 and beyond. I can accept that it is the same bag, from the Temple of Doom on.
Dangerman

Well, the trousers were still being made my military tailors all over the country for the life of the "pinks and greens" uniform (from the late 20's to the late 50's). And he no doubt was having the shirt made by an old and trusted tailor. And was not the "original" bag destroyed in ToD when the stones burst into flame?
Also, he had to have had more than one jacket. Remember in Raiders he was shot in the left arm through the jacket? Yet in Crusade and Skull ... no bullet hole.

I guess my thought is the entire set of dud's Indy wore were loosely based off of his adventure on the circus train. The wipe and the lion, the clothes Fedora wore were similar, consisting of a leather jacket, the fedora, and khaki pants and a similar shirt. But the hat was given as a peace offering and a sign of respect and had far more significance then the rest of the gear.

Fedora's hat was not at all Indy's hat of latter years. I think after that little adventure Indy became enamored of Fedora's attire and to an extent, emulated it, as we emulate Indy!
Also, Indy lived in an era of hats. No man would go outside without a hat on. The most popular hat was the fedora. Thus the fedora was a natural extension of Indy's world.

Hey, guys, it's a fictional story-- none of it was real, including Indy himself. Yes, the clothes Ford wore were real, but they simply REPRESENTED Indy's fictional clothes. Several hats were used in each film, but only in the real world of movie-making--not in the fictional world Indy lives in.

The differences we see happened because there were changes in specific hats worn in different scenes, and different costume designers used from film to film.

If you don't believe it was intended by the filmakers to be one and the same hat-- even when you hear it from the horse's mouth (or, in this case, one of the Big Three horse's mouths)-- who CAN you believe?

Jack

alphared6 wrote:...was not the "original" bag destroyed in ToD when the stones burst into flame?

What I meant to say was, it was the same bag after the other one burst into flames. From after the Temple of Doom to the Crystal Skull.

... beg pardon ...

Dangerman009 wrote:

alphared6 wrote:...was not the "original" bag destroyed in ToD when the stones burst into flame?

What I meant was this, it was the same bag after the other one burst into flames. From after the Temple of Doom to the Crystal Skull.

Well, speaking as a gearhead, the bag that burst into flames was a MKVI, and since Raiders was (chronologically speaking) a sequel to ToD, I guess you could say he 'upgraded' to a MKVII after that?

Easy, I think some are just drawing a distinction between real world and make believe. Trying to get the two to coincide (continuity) is the difficult part. Some say only one hat, jacket, etc., but I think we're seeing something different in film. Given the rough and tumble adventures, it just couldn't be one jacket, hat, etc., so some reason a more plausible explanation. In the 30's, people relied on specialty shops who performed high quality work, producing high quality items.

Also, people of that era did not collect or hoard things up as we do today. Money was too sparse in the real world economy of the Depression Era. Real world scenario, Indy might have had all of three suits, and maybe 3 hats...but they were of the best quality....not that he was 'real', but that his character is based to some degree on the real world of the 30's.

Texan Scott wrote:Also, people of that era did not collect or hoard things up as we do today. Money was too sparse in the real world economy of the Depression Era.

I have to disagree. Because of the Depression, many people did horde what they could for fear of having to relive those years. After my grandmother died, you should've SEEN the amount of plastic bags and plastic silverware she had stashed over the years! You would've thought she was a wholesaler! Folks would collect things like scrap wire and keep it around "just in case." They were very aware of anything that went to waste.

As far as clothing went, the Depression (and the war) helped usher in the idea of mixing and matching your attire to get as much mileage out of what you had. But yes, by today's standards, many items of clothing back then were of top-notch quality. I have a number of suits from 1900-1950 which put many modern suits I've seen to shame.

That said, I would see Indy wearing something until it wore out. Knowing how much abuse his gear got, I could see him going through a jacket or two over the years, and even a couple of hats.

binkmeisterRick wrote:I would see Indy wearing something until it wore out. Knowing how much abuse his gear got, I could see him going through a jacket or two over the years, and even a couple of hats.

I agree 100%. People in the 30's would wear cloths completely out! Bill Mauldin joined the National Guard to get the pants and boots, which he wore all the time! My grand-father had three suits in those years. He wore them thread bare! He had a hat for each suit, he treated them as if they were made of egg shell! No one could touch his hats. For his children they became items to fear and avoid!

Mike

I think thematically the hat is meant to be the same hat through Indy's adventures. In the real world, we know them all to be different, but to Joe public, there's probably no difference.

I think you can relate his outfit to that of any fictional heroes. Would you expect to see Superman without his blue tights and red cape? No. Thus Indy wouldn't be Indy without his hat, whip, jacket and khakis. Logic would dictate that things would have to be repaired/upgraded/replaced through the time span of Indy's life, but as a fictional hero, the look must remain consistent.

There's a quote somewhere by Paul Freeman regarding his jungle outfit in the beginning of Raiders and how he thought he should wear his trademark suit instead as audiences expect characters to have a consistent look.

…though its always been a pet peeve of mine when in "flashbacks" younger versions of characters always have the same hairstyle. I'm glad I evolved from my 70's do and 80's mullet. I would imagine fictional characters would change their hair as well.

But I digress…

I'm glad you updated your mullet, too, Mike.

One thing that always irritates me, and it happens in high AND low budget films, occurs when a film character pulls down a reference book to check an item. These reference books are supposed to have been written fairly 'recent' to the time period of the storyline, and yet the books look like they're over 100 years old....as they would appear today if they had been written in, say, 1900.

They would be essentially NEW in the time period of the film, NOT totally worn out and aged from sitting on a shelf for decades!!

Anyway, back to the question at hand....

Regards !Michaelson

binkmeisterRick wrote:I'm glad you updated your mullet, too, Mike.

Mullet? Ya lot me there, I don't even like fish.

I think I caught the "hoarding disease" from my parents and grandparents, so I fit right in with the current economic realities.

As far as the costume goes, it's fun to speculate up to a point about what a real Indy might or might not do, but there is a boundary beyond which the speculation becomes ludicrous and sometimes even delusional.

To me, if Ford says there was only one hat, that's good enough and no further speculation is necessary. And of course, if Indy really was a real guy, he probably wouldn't have survived his first adventure, if you want to carry speculation to its logical conclusion.

But I don't want to sound like a spoilsport. it's just my opinion. If you enjoy the let's pretend game and can keep your head screwed on straight, have fun with it and more power to you!

Jack

People of that era did not collect things as we do, because they could not afford to. If you opened someone's closet back then, you typically would not see 10 pairs of shoes, etc. They may not have had as much as we do today, but they bought things to last, articles of clothing, that is. In terms of quality, their money just went further. Obviously there were exceptions.

They wouldn't necessarily horde clothes, but things in general. It's not about going out and spending all your money on 10 suits, but when they did spend money, if anything could be saved or salvaged for later, it wasn't uncommon to do so. Heck, my late grandmother would take home a half-eaten dinner roll and all the unused soup cracker packets when we'd go out to eat. The "hording wire" story comes from a man who would find bits of things in the street and pick them up and take them home since there could be the slightest chance of needing them for something somewhere down the road.

Perhaps insanely frugal is a better way of putting it?

I am reading the new book "Indiana Jones and the Army of the Dead", and if you look at pages 8-9 it talks about this very subject. I don't know if you consider the expanded universe to be pertinent or not but Dr. Jones clearly states in the book his lucky hat that he wears on all of his adventures is indeed the hat fedora placed on his head in The last Crusade.

I recommend reading the book for those who enjoy his off screen adventures. It is well written.

Beaverlid

beaverlid wrote:I am reading the new book "Indiana Jones and the Army of the Dead", and if you look at pages 8-9 it talks about this very subject. I don't know if you consider the expanded universe to be pertinent or not but Dr. Jones clearly states in the book his lucky hat that he wears on all of his adventures is indeed the hat fedora placed on his head in The last Crusade.

I recommend reading the book for those who enjoy his off screen adventures. It is well written.

Beaverlid

I too read that section in Army of the Dead and the author had a similar story as mine(below).

Insomniac wrote:I think he rebashes it a lot like at the of Temple of doom he gets it wet so it's possible rebashes it into a taller version then he rebashes it again after it is returned to him in Raiders from Sallah or Katanga and then in Last Crusade he rebashes it in the beginning after Portagual and then twenty years later he reabashes it again!

Right?

IT's good to think about how things were to realize how rich we are today.

Anyway I think without a doubt it has to be a separate fedora for the most part. Even in the movie world

This thread is reminding me of many movie references, most notably the scene in "The Last Action Hero" where the boy goes into Arnie's character's [Jack Slater] movie-world and goes to Slater apartment and all there is is a bed and in his closet is a full rack of the same leather jacket, jeans, shirt, and boots. Same thing in the spoof "Fatal Instinct" where Armand Assante's character is pacing in his office wondering "hmmm, which one?" and his secretary says "the blue one", but there all the same suit. Heck, even in "Batman Returns" Batman has the same batsuit. Maybe THATS it!!! Perhaps each Jacket and/or hat give Indy special abilities, or rather serve different functions

blueoakleyz wrote:IT's good to think about how things were to realize how rich we are today.

Anyway I think without a doubt it has to be a separate fedora for the most part. Even in the movie world

im kinda poor =/

j/k xD


i actually think that it's the same hat.. "..indy never drops his hat..".
its indy, why would he change hat... u guys change ur hat-crease's(spelling etc.??? ><) alot, why wouldnt indy? its a movie, therefore i dont see why his symbolic hat would be different hats throu out the story. irl, yeah he would have to change it, but movie wise, nah, GL helped a bit with the movies, just look at lukes lightsaber, from Anakins saber>Luke ANH>Luke ESB same saber... why wouldnt indy carry on the same.

//jimmie, im swedish btw

Didn't I already address this question...
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... 15&start=0



Johnny

Johnny Fedora wrote:Didn't I already address this question...
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... 15&start=0



Johnny

I knew you were going to post that here. You old smoothy.

Yes sir you did cover that. I very fine job I might add!

Somewhat off topic but, did anyone see the recent Jimmy Stewart tribute on PBS? He was being interviewed by Johnny Carson, and was holding and showing us the hat he said he wore in most if not all of his westerns. He made it sound like it was the original and one and only, I thought, and he called it his "lucky hat". He also said he rode the same horse, his horse "Pie", in all 17 of his westerns. --- (Read the third paragraph) http://www.combustiblecelluloid.com/cla ... er73.shtml

I know this is extended universe, but it's directly from pages eight and nine of Indiana Jones and the Army of the Dead. The book came out at the end of September. It takes place in Haiti in the summer 1943, where Indy mentions to a young woman later in the book that he's 44 years old.

This exchange takes place right after Indy and Mac crash land in the water and wash up on shore.(take note: it seems as though the author Steve Perry knows a little something about hat care):

"Hello? Have a look." Mac pointed.
At first, Indy wasn't sure what he was seeing, but
then he was.
"My hat!"
He managed to get to his feet, and to the hat. He
picked it up, shook the sand off it, and put it on.
He suddenly felt better. Things could be worse. Yeah,
they had crashed into the sea, but they were alive, he
had his whip, his revolver, and his hat. That was a
good sign. Nothing was broken. The day was definitely
looking up.
Mac said, "I've been meaning to ask you-how have
you managed to keep that blasted hat in one piece?
You've had it as long as I've known you."
Indy grinned. "I've had it longer than that."
Mac raised an eyebrow.
"I was...thirteen? Almost fourteen. It involved the
Cross of Coronado."
"I've heard of that. Gold, preciuos stones, suppose-
edly had a sliver of Christ's cross tucked away in it?"
Indy nodded. "Yeah. If every sliver of wood that's
supposed to have come from that cross got piled up
together, it would be bigger than a giant sequoia. Any-
way, I swiped the artifact from some tomb raiders, but
Fedora outfoxed me."
"Fedora?"
"I never knew his name. This hat was his. I think he
took a shine to me after we went 'round. He gave me
some good advice, and this hat, as a consolation
prize."
"What was the advice?"
"Essentially, you can't win 'em all. Sometimes you
have to wait for another day. He was right. Eventu-
ally, I did collect Coronado's Cross and got it to the
university's museum."
"And you still have the hat."
"Yeah, I get it blocked and dry-cleaned when I'm
back in civilization, use a hat jack when it's in the
closet. Had the seatband replaced eight or nine times.
And there are hatmakers who can repair a tear or hole
in felt, though it costs an arm and a leg. For what I've
spent on this fedora over the years, I could have
bought my own haberdashery."
Mac shook his head.
"Hey, everybody has to be someplace," Indy said.
"And when I'm there, I have my lucky hat."
"Lucky?"
"I'm still breathing, aren't I?"
Mac grinned.
"what say we go and find some locals and see where
we are?" Indy said.

Is that true about being able to have holes and tears in felt fixed? Sounds unlikely.

What a shame then that it had to be incenerated as the result of a nuclear blast.

Johnny