Club Obi Wan

Now, I'm not gonna lie, I'm rough on hats. I don't mean to be, but I figure a hat is meant to be worn, so I wear it. Sometimes its snowing, or down pouring, or I'm standing in a river up to my waist. With this in mind, I'm thinking my hat needs a reblock. What do you all think?

I'm inclined to agree.

I probably don't fit in on this web site, but I'd say no, your hat tells of great adventures, and reblocking wipes out those stories.

Blackthorn, I understand where you're coming from. But to really form an opinion on this particular hat (IMO it depends on the hat) I'd really need to see some more photos from different angles.

Also, hats never used to taper especially when they used mercury. Vintage hats don't generally lose their shape and i believe distressing doesn't have to include tapering. Its only because hat making is no longer a industry whose customers only demand the best. In times when hats were a necessary item of clothing and everyone wore one, only the best quality would survive. Now you buy what you can get and only the likes of our custom friends know how to kill felt to stop (or at least delay) shrinkage like in days gone by.

I say reblock but i'd still like to see more shots if poss.

lso, hats never used to taper especially when they used mercury. Vintage hats don't generally lose their shape and i believe distressing doesn't have to include tapering.

We have no proof that mercury made hats that did not taper. Remember, back when most men wore felt hats, there were little refurb and cleaning shops located everywhere, and most dry cleaners cleaned and reblocked hats. A local dry cleaner here just told me as much, and of course, I wanted to buy any hat tools he had left. But alas, he had thrown them away in the 1970's when they had become useless, due to lack of business. Hats were literally dead, at least the refurb business in my area. All of these reblock stations is proof that even the old hats tapered, and lost their original shape.

Mercury was used to make rabbit hats, better, which was needed as the supply of beaver dwindled at one point. Rabbit was a much cheaper alternitive to beaver hats. So economics, as it always does, entered into the equation. Same with the really thin felt that we see on most vintage hats. It was an economic decision, due to the problem in getting fur, during certain times. As time passed the thinner felt hats became the norm, whereas in the past, they were an anomaly, and seen as less of a hat, due to the thinness.

Mercury not only made the scales or barbs stand out from the strand of fur, (this made a tighter felted hat) but it also caused the fur fibers to swell. This swelling, changed the "feel" of the felt. Imagine a hard kernal of popcorn, and then compare it to a popped kernal. Totally different feel. I have mentioned before, but the ladies of the evening in the old west used mercury on their eyelashes, to make them look fuller, an early mascara, so to speak, but it did this by swelling up the eyelashes, making them look fuller, and I guess, more desirable to the cowpokes.


I have owned so many vintage hats, and most seemed to be practically taper proof. Some were very pourous rabbbit felt hats, and some were expensive blends, or pure beaver hats. They all shared that one attribute, that is, not being prone to taper. This puzzled me, because when I talked to my feltmaker, he assured me his very ancient company still used the same machines used in the 1930's, and the felt was made exactly the same way today, as it was back then, at least from his factory. And he had no clue why vintage hats seemed impervious to taper, but added, it was probably the age of the fur.

When I read in Deb Henderson's book that fur was a "live" material, when used in hatmaking, and therefore was hard to work with, and this is where the art came in, it occurred to me that perhaps, the fur had to completely die, and go through an organic change in the process, in order to finally stop shrinking, which is the root cause of taper.

Then later on my theory was boistered when I read (accidently) that we used to make instruments, perhaps humidity gauges, that relied upon a strand of hair, shrinking and growing with the change of moisture in the air, and that these gauges were rebuilt, simply by replacing the strand of hair when it stopped shrinking and growing with the humidity change. If the hair "wore out" that meant something occurred within the hair to cause this. And my theory of dead fur was born. It make perfect sense.

Now add to this that back in the old days, all the big hatters, "aged" their fur, in the basements. They did not use fur right from the processor department. After the fur was removed from the animal, and carroted, it was then aged. The reason, given, was this made a much more mellow felt hat, but this may also have allowed time for the fur to die somewhat before it was felted into a hat. Perhaps, once you use "live" fur to make a hat like everyone does today, due to economics, those hats are prone to shrinkage, after the hat is made. Because the felt is still more alive, and reacts to heat and moisture more so than an aged fur. And perhaps, once a "live" fur is felted, all compacted together, it takes a long time for that dense fur to actually change its chemistry, as it is not in its natural state anymore. But this last part is just conjecture, and me thinking out loud. Fedora

Well, if I do decide to get a re-block, who do I contact? It's a well-loved Henry, and I only want the best for it!

I have a question on reblocking. Do the customers that order from the custom hatters get on the same waiting list as the new hats to be made or is there a different waiting period for the reblocks?

Another idea for business. People would hate to wait a year and a half when they need a reblock. Sell a maintenance plan with your fedoras. I don't know charge a fee to have annual maintenance for 1,3,5 years. People that buy the plan can get a reblock done faster and not have to wait, but like anything premium, they get it at a cost. Maybe this is not a plan that would work in the hat making business. I don't even know how long it takes to properly reblock a fedora. I am sure it varies due different hats requiring different care. Anyway, just a thought.

I generally try to get AB reblocks out fairly fast, but every now and then one will get accidently buried under some old non AB reblocks that were sent with the understanding that I would get to them "in time". I no longer accept non AB hats for reblocks these days due to my backlog on new hats.

With that said, I found one two days ago, buried with non ABs from Tristan, which I will get reblocked here shortly. So, personally, I do err from time to time, but TRY not to.

I have sold thousands of my handmade ABs. I have gotten back probably less than 5 per cent of those for reblocks. Some have actually needed a reblock, but many did not, although I reblocked those anyways. Sometimes the creases get "set in" in a tapered state, but if you punch out the crowns, they are still good and straight, and only need to be steamed and the old creases worked out, so you can put good ones in, that don't taper the hat.

Anyone who wears felt hats need to invest in water repellant treatment, and keep the hat treated. If it rains, once the hat is dry, retreat it. Most water repellants will wear out, over time and exposure. And if you do get it wet, punch out the crown to the open crown state to dry, and don't rest it on the brim to dry! This will generally push in the sides if the hat is wet, and it will dry tapered. Then all is lost, and you are stuck with a tapered hat. Remember, a felt hat is not an oilskin hat. Felt really was not designed as serious rain gear. There are better materials for that. But, felt will keep the head dry, if it is good dense felt, like pure beaver. But if you want modern hats to keep their shape, TREAT IT, and do it often. It will save you on reblocks.

I have worn my Henry in 5 rains to date, with no discernible taper problems. BUT, I treated the hat heavily when I first got it, and repeated after each rain, and the hat was dry. But with my new water repellant, that I am using on the hats I make today, a light rain never gets the felt wet. It rolls off, but I still retreat it. Just in case....

Everyone needs to own at least two hats. Because of the rain factor. If you wore your hat in the rain today, and again tomorrow, don't expect the hat to last long without shrinking up and tapering. Instead, give the first one time to dry COMPLETELY, retreat it, and then wear it again. And if a hat is really wet, don't expect it to dry overnight. It may appear dry, but the core is still wet. Fedora

With this in mind, I'm thinking my hat needs a reblock. What do you all think?

I can see the taper that was on the block used to make this hat, on the front and the back. I bet if you dropped down the front pinch to 4 3/8 and the back to 3 3/4, you would suddenly lose much of that taper you are showing from the side shot.

Most blocks are tapered on the front and back. But if you crease it down low enough, it straightens up that taper. Yours looks to be creased too high in the back for an Indy fedora. Just my opinion. And since there is no arc on the top of the hat, the lowered front and back would give you the arc that is supposed to be there to begin with. Your hat may suffer from a bad crease job, no offense intended.

Here is my own Henry. Height in front 4 5/8, height in back 3 7/8 inches. I think I have mine creased lower than yours.



If so, pull out your ruler, crease the front at 4 1/2 inches high, the back at 3 3/4 to 3 7/8 and see if that helps you out. Fedora

Fedora do you recommend a particular water repellant? I bought a can of aerosol scout felt hat protector from a hatter online, but have yet to use it. Are spray on the best? Are they the only type of water repellant?

Fedora do you recommend a particular water repellant? I bought a can of aerosol scout felt hat protector from a hatter online, but have yet to use it. Are spray on the best? Are they the only type of water repellant?

Not anymore since B and L stopped selling theirs. The Scout is better than nothing, but if you have an old can of scotchguard around, that's the best.
Another great water repellant is defracturnated coconut oil, but you have you heat your oil pad up to apply. But, like the oil used by beavers to keep dry, it works! It also will darken up the felt somewhat. My rain hat has both oil and the stuff that I use which is naptha based. I follow the repellant up with the oil and not vice versa, since naptha is a hat cleaning product and will cut off the oil, if I applied the oil first. This combo will keep your hat dry even in a frog strangler, but must be applied again for insurance. fedora

Should I go down to the local wal mart and just buy a can of scotch guard. We are having a potentially wet weekend ahead and it would help. Will the scotch guard make my ribbon shiney?

Now, I could be wrong, but I THINK they changed the formulation of Scotchguard a few years ago, for environmental reasons. It turns out the active substance stays in the human body and is never excreted. NOW, no health problems ever resulted from this stuff, but if I remember correctly, they changed the formula at that time. Maybe someone else here knows more about this.

I was blessed with having almost a case of this stuff bout 10 years ago. My wife always bought in bulk, to save money, so....But all of that is long gone. I used it early on in my own line of hats and used it all up.

But IF you can still get the old stuff, YES! You won't find any product better for repelling stains and the rain. I THINK that is the active ingredient in my current repellant that is naptha based. Sure acts like it when compared to the other stuff I have used, like Scouts, and B and L. It just works better, and lasts longer than those others.

So, even if they changed the formula, Scotchguard should be cheaper than Scouts, and probably works as well as Scouts. Opt for the outdoor version of Scotchguard if still available. Probably more repellant in it than the indoor type. Fedora

You are like a library fedora. Lots of information on a lot of topics.

Be careful, though, regarding the Scotchgard 'outdoors'. They have a version that is silicone based and specifically for canvas and like material. NOT a product we want to apply to fur felt.

Regards! Michaelson

I bet the silicon formula would create an interesting finish on a felt hat. I'd wager it almost turns into a waxed look.

Randy

I will most certainly be steering clear of scotchgard with silicone.

Just an FYI. I still have some of the B & L stuff left. Ounce it's gone it could be gone for good. The women who has the rights to it will most likely stop selling it because it doesn't seem to be worth her time. I might be guying that biz from her. Stay tuned.

Fedora, you are a genius! I knocked down the back crease to 3 7/8 and most of the taper has dissappeared. Thanks!

Great stuff Steve. I've learned more about hats on COW than i ever imagined.

I have learned a LOT from this thread. I always thought since they were fur, that our hats were impervious to rain. Now I know I need to waterproof them. This is priceless knowledge. Thank you, Fedora!

Ronski wrote:Fedora, you are a genius! I knocked down the back crease to 3 7/8 and most of the taper has dissappeared. Thanks!

Stunning hat now. That lower crease really makes a difference. Who made the hat? I really really like that bow.

Ronski wrote:Now, I'm not gonna lie, I'm rough on hats. I don't mean to be, but I figure a hat is meant to be worn, so I wear it.

I have no comment about this subject, other than to say, HERE'S a man after my own heart! I just wanted to say that.

Regards! Michaelson

Now, I'm not gonna lie, I'm rough on hats. I don't mean to be, but I figure a hat is meant to be worn, so I wear it.


I have no comment about this subject, other than to say, HERE'S a man after my own heart! I just wanted to say that.

Me too!!! But look at your hat as you would a fine pair of leather boots. I have a pair of Pivetta Hiking Boots, made in Italy(alas this very old company is now gone) that I bought in the mid 1970's. I have replaced the lugged vibram soles a few times, but the uppers are still in great shape. But, I always kept my boots treated. Back when I did alot of backpacking, I took a can of Sno Seal with me, for a nightly treatment for my boots. And this maintence paid off. I still wear them.

Look at your hat in the same way. Wear it, but care for it, and in this case we are talking about water repellant treatment on a regular basis, and also wiping down the sweat with an antiseptic every now and then. Wet leather can grow bacteria and mold.


Of course brush your hat counter clockwise to clean, but find that I seldom do this to my own hats. I like the worn look. But of course, I have a clean hat for dress occassions too. That one does get a good brushing if needed.

Glad I could help out with the hat above Ronski. As time goes by, you will become your own expert with your hats. I started out, knowing NOTHING about felt hats. I had worn the straw, Panama Jack type of hats for years before finding Indy Fan, our old forum, before the great Gear Head Exodus. And then prior to this, catching the Indy fedora bug that bit me. But, I have always went full speed into anything I was interested in, and it still drives me today regarding felt hats. I try to learn everything possible about my hobbys. I am just intensely interested in not just hats, but the history of hatmaking, etc. I think Brad Bowers knows more than me though. He did a paper on the Cavanagh Edge, and did alot of research into this, even having my feltmaker actually make him one!!!! Understand, this edge treatment is no longer made today, by anyone. It was a true art to make that self felting edge, and few can pull it off today. Bogey wore one. And it is the ONLY edge treatment that appeals to me personally. I own a couple, both vintage of course. Fedora

Look at your hat in the same way. Wear it, but care for it, and in this case we are talking about water repellant treatment on a regular basis, and also wiping down the sweat with an antiseptic every now and then. Wet leather can grow bacteria and mold.


Of course brush your hat counter clockwise to clean, but find that I seldom do this to my own hats. I like the worn look. But of course, I have a clean hat for dress occassions too. That one does get a good brushing if needed.

As YOU well know, old friend, I practice what I preach, and I've preached the sermon above for over a decade now.

Regards! Michaelson

Ronski wrote:Fedora, you are a genius! I knocked down the back crease to 3 7/8 and most of the taper has dissappeared. Thanks!

and still, your hat looks a little deformed to me. it's a henry, isn't it? mine looked right the same, after I reshaped it from a Raiders style to a LC style, using a lot of water to make the sharp creases disappear. it then went through A LOT of rain in Venice, and the result was back taper and the loss of a straight profile: the lines of the hat looked too rounded and domed.

I tried the trick Fedora suggested to make the back taper disappear, but that way the top of the hat sat on my head, and I find this very uncomfortable (and your hair get messy too). plus, compare your hat to Fedora's: even if you made the taper disappear, look how lines curves slightly; the back of Fedora's Henry, instead, is perfectly straight.

Take a look to the brim, too. Seems to me that there's something wrong. I repeat, your hat looks the same way mine looked before I sent it to Marc for a reblock, in June - haven't got it still, so I can't post comparison pictures.

So, does your hat need a reblock? Well, if you are satisfied with the change you made in the back, no. As usual, it's all in the eye of the beholder. I would reblock it, if I were you, as I did. I was very disappointed that my Henry lasted not even two months. I was gentle with it, yeah, but I espected more from an Adventurebilt - even if factory made and not made of pure beaver. Marc granted me he will give it a special treatment for water and taper resistance. I hope so! I don't want to have to reblock it again two months by now. Anyway, Marc kindly offered me a generous discount, and this proves that AB hats can fail, but Ab hatters won't

and still, your hat looks a little deformed to me. it's a henry, isn't it? mine looked right the same, after I reshaped it from a Raiders style to a LC style, using a lot of water to make the sharp creases disappear. it then went through A LOT of rain in Venice, and the result was back taper and the loss of a straight profile: the lines of the hat looked too rounded and domed.

As I said, it is so important to keep your felt hats treated. Especially hats with rabbit fur in them, like the Henry does. This has kept mine looking good after 5 rains. My own has settled into a nice Raven looking hat, and no taper.

tried the trick Fedora suggested to make the back taper disappear, but that way the top of the hat sat on my head, and I find this very uncomfortable (and your hair get messy too). plus, compare your hat to Fedora's: even if you made the taper disappear, look how lines curves slightly; the back of Fedora's Henry, instead, is perfectly straight.

So with your head shape, you could never wear a proper, that is, a film creased Raiders fedora. Because if you dropped the back down to the film specs, the top of the hat hits your head. You would have to stay with the CS specs, with the higher back, or opt for the hat Indy wears in Raiders at the start of the film, right before he enters into the temple. That particular hat is creased high, so that you can see the back taper on the hat. Course, you would have to live with the taper, if creased that high.


I also noticed on the hat this thread is about, is I would have dropped the front down a bit lower too, as well as he did with the back. To give it more of an arc.

The curve you mentioned on the back, compared to my own which is straighter can be tweaked out. That's the thing about being a hatmaker. We can hit the area with a minimum amount of steam, and knock that curve out. I guess it falls under advanced hatting though. I see alot of hats that if they were mine, I could tweak out the weak spots without ever reblocking. But of course if a hat has tapered pretty bad, a reblock is needed.

The worse thing you can do to any felt hat is to get the core wet. When that happens, the hat wants to revert to the original cone that a hat is made from. Now, if you are just using a felt hat as rain gear, with no mind towards it being anything but rain gear and could care less if it lost its original shape, felt works fine, and the denser the felt the better. And for that matter, the more shellac, the hat has in it helps too. So, a perfect felt rain hat(if loss of blockshape was not high on your list) would be a pure beaver, very heavy weight, with as much shellac as you could get the felt to absorb. The maxed out shellac adds water repellant qualities, and then keep this hat treated. That would be the optimum felt rain hat. And it would last longer before tapering than any other felt hat. Might never taper, I dunno. Fedora

Fedora wrote:
So with your head shape, you could never wear a proper, that is, a film creased Raiders fedora. Because if you dropped the back down to the film specs, the top of the hat hits your head. You would have to stay with the CS specs, with the higher back, or opt for the hat Indy wears in Raiders at the start of the film, right before he enters into the temple.

yeah, I noticed that. ya see, my forehead is quite high and I have to wear my hat high too; in fact, if I try to push it down my head the way Ford does in Raiders (where the brim almost touches his ears), my head fills the whole crown and touches the top.

another option I could choose is a LC style. in some scenes of Last Crusade, in fact, the back is very high and a little curved

If you wore your hat in the rain today, and again tomorrow, don't expect the hat to last long without shrinking up and tapering.

mmmh, yeah. that's what happened to me in Venice. 2 days of heavy rain, hat core-wet.

I think I should search some place here in Italy that sells water repellent for hats