Club Obi Wan

The Experiment Aircraft Association visited our local airport this weekend. They brought a great B-17 Flying Fortess "Aluminum Overcast" along , which I was able to fly on. I discovered two local folks who brought along their father's old A-2 jackets to the show. I snapped these photos, thinking you all may enjoy seeing the details on these authentic WW2 jackets.




The jackets were cool and talking the the families was very interesting.
~raider 57

wow. those are reall cool.I love the aging on them.

what skin is this? goat?

I wondered about that too. Hard to tell as they were so dried out, I was thinking horsehide. I will say they both appeared to be of the same hide though.
Notice how different the pockets are done.

wow. that last one has spot on TN pocket flaps.

Very nice. There are a couple of what might be originals on eBay right now.

I gather most of the early ones were Horse but some of the earliest were goat. Later ones were supposed to be Goat but I've read many were actually cowhide.

The little differences are interesting, some having collar stands. some not etc.

Those two both look to have small pockets, similar to the ToD jacket. Probably an influence from Cooper being an A2 maker.

I love that stuff..... Just love it. Thanks for posting the pix.

Mike

These are almost certainly horse. Goat tended toward a more pebbly, sort of football texture in A2s and cow just doesn't hold up over the years very well. I love hearing the stories associated with these. What a great name "Pakawallup"! I couldn't quite make out the other name: is it "Century ???"

Thanks for sharing!

Very interesting.

Thanks for sharing those pics. They're a great source of information.

WOW! 35 and 33 missions respectively! Two guys that (I'm guessing) beat the odds! Incredible!

Too bad you didn't have some Pecards with you ......you could have made a friend for life .....gee can't believe I beat Michaelson to it.....

It is sad to see those jackets falling apart.

alphared6 wrote:WOW! 35 and 33 missions respectively! Two guys that (I'm guessing) beat the odds! Incredible!

Quite right alphared6.
To put a face with the jacket/missions, the 35 mission jacket belonged to the fellow on the far left,back row. He served as radioman.

~raider 57

So ... provinance! Outstanding!

Pakawallup sounds like it could be a place in Washington State

Love it, great name for a 17.

Indiana Holt wrote:wow. that last one has spot on TN pocket flaps.

Yeah. And the funny thing is back at base the English pilots used to tell him they looked too much like "a caricature."

Thanks for posting these photo. Beautiful jackets and the stories those jackets could tell.
best
Canada

I love history and seeing real jackets from the war is just awesome. To see them and the picture and think of what those guys went through and saw it just makes you humble.

Hats off to those guys, they all saved our necks!!!!

(although they all would say they were just doing their job...)

Indiana Holt wrote:wow. that last one has spot on TN pocket flaps.

Or...TN jackets have spot on WWII A-2 pocket flaps. I kid, I kid

Dragonlady Jones wrote:

Indiana Holt wrote:wow. that last one has spot on TN pocket flaps.

Or...TN jackets have spot on WWII A-2 pocket flaps. I kid, I kid

Not so far off. A-2s vary by manufacturer, but the TN jacket is the movie jacket, and features of the movie jacket were partly copied from A-2 design.

Hatch wrote:Too bad you didn't have some Pecards with you ......you could have made a friend for life .....gee can't believe I beat Michaelson to it.....

I learned LONG ago you don't mention leather care products around folks who collect these type items. They usually go ballastic, stating you'd ruin the provenance of the jacket, as they are considered relics rather than usuable items. .....So, I usually keep my own council on these....

Regards! Michaelson

As a museum curator I hob nob with conservators often, annual conferences, work shops and the like. I keep abreast of the latest information in various professional journals, etc, etc... I can tell you that even among professionals there is a raging debate about leather conservation. Basically there are two camps. One is the "do nothing" camp, their argument is that we don't know the long term effects various ointments will have upon leather in "the long term." The other end of the spectrum says "something must be done or all the leather artifacts will rot away and the argument will become moot." And within this latter camp there are fierce debates about what to use and what not to use.
I am in the latter camp, and keep myself informed as to what seems successful out there.

An interesting aside... I recently had opportunity to treat an original A-2 jacket for a WWII veteran. The leather was quite stiff except for one area. The right pocket. He related a story about having a chocolate bar melt in that pocket in 1944. Here the leather was soft and supple. The coco butter no doubt. The jacket responded quite well to several treatments of "Old English Leather Dressing" and lives on today in the closet of the vets grandson - who knows very well not to wear it!
Mike

RCSignals wrote:

Dragonlady Jones wrote:

Indiana Holt wrote:wow. that last one has spot on TN pocket flaps.

Or...TN jackets have spot on WWII A-2 pocket flaps. I kid, I kid

Not so far off. A-2s vary by manufacturer, but the TN jacket is the movie jacket, and features of the movie jacket were partly copied from A-2 design.

I think that was my point. I was saying that TN's pockets are very similar to original A-2s, instead of the other way around (meaning WWII A-2 manufacturers copied TN).

alphared6 wrote:As a museum curator I hob nob with conservators often, annual conferences, work shops and the like. I keep abreast of the latest information in various professional journals, etc, etc... I can tell you that even among professionals there is a raging debate about leather conservation. Basically there are two camps. One is the "do nothing" camp, their argument is that we don't know the long term effects various ointments will have upon leather in "the long term." The other end of the spectrum says "something must be done or all the leather artifacts will rot away and the argument will become moot." And within this latter camp there are fierce debates about what to use and what not to use.

Mike

The exact same debate rages in the watch collecting community, so it's a pretty regular dust up when the topic is mentioned.

Regards! Michaelson

Yeah, they go up in arms when you put Pecards on an old Bunn Special.

That, or a good hosing with WD-40!!

Regards! Michaelson

alphared6, is that 'old english leather dressing ' available to regular folks ?.......I didn't find it on a quick google search......

Hatch wrote:alphared6, is that 'old english leather dressing ' available to regular folks ?.......I didn't find it on a quick google search......

Sure, if you have the money. It's rather expensive. It seems only to be advertised to the conservation community. Also, it's not the kind of thing you apply to a vintage jacket you intend to keep wearing.

Mike