Club Obi Wan

Hello my friends,


I just curious, and this is very important fact to me when I order a whip. How the real size of knot in Indy whips?
I question that because I see in the most websites a very big variation in size knots. I like a more big knot, but I see a lot of the BEST whipmaker using a small knot. Why this happens?

Example:









Thanks for atention.

Kind Regards.


Gaucho.

Well you're not without knowing that the reason for the butt being built up in a bullwhip is partly to counter-balance the weight of the thong right? The other reason being to give your hands a place to hold the whip from.

Since the butt is usually loaded with lead, the size of the butt depends on a few factors, some of which I will explain here.

Depending on the weight of the thong, it may be necessary to use more or less lead in the butt to balance out the whip. Generally speaking, the longer the whip the more lead will be needed to balance out the thong and so a bigger knot will result. However, the amount of lead used also depends on its purity; pure lead as is most often used by whipmakers is heavier than many modern alloys, and so less is needed to achieve the same weight.

It also depends on the type of whip and the sort of balance one wants out of the whip. Target whips tend to be lighter than heavy bullwhips (or American style bullwhips if you prefer), and so may need less lead in the butt. If the handle foundation is made of a steel spike, as opposed to let's say a fiberglass rod, less lead will be needed. If the steel spike is longer, again less lead because the weight of the steel will contribute to the balance.

Someone may want a slightly "nose-heavy" whip, in which case less lead, if any, is used so that the balance point is moved forward down the thong, instead of having it around the end of the handle.

The thickness of the leather used in making the whip also contributes to the size of the butt, though not much to its weight. A whip made of thin kangaroo (let's say around 0.8 mm) will add less to the size of the butt then one made with heavy leather (in kangaroo that would be anything above 1 mm), and so if one still wants to have the same balance point by adding the same amount of lead, the end result will vary depending on the thickness of the leather used and whether or not it has been thinned down over this area (it usually isn't).

A bullwhip with a wrist loop will be slightly, though not by much, bigger in the butt end than one without a wrist loop; it goes without saying that the more you add to this part of the whip, the bigger it will be, right?

Since every whipmaker does things a bit differently, I will only tell you about how I do things and I will let others express their own methods if they want to.

For me, I classify butt ends in three very simple categories: small, medium and large. I try to stay between the small to medium because it is the most comfortable to me in the hand, and the more comfortable a whip is to use, the more you will want to use it. A good-looking whip that feels awkward in your hand, will not see much daylight or use; it will stay as a pretty wall hanger... But that's not why you are spending all this money on a proper whip is it? You've saved and scrounged your coins so you could enjoy using it often. But again, what feels right to me is different than what feels right to someone else so it's really all subjective anyway.

Small: between 35 and 38 mm
Medium: between 39 and 43 mm
Large: between 44 and 46 mm

To me, anything that is outside these figures starts to become awkward in my hand, either because it is too small and doesn't have much of a "ball", or inversely because it is so big I cannot hold it properly in my hand. Again, these are just my figures and they are at best, estimates.

Hope this helps,


Franco

Gaucho, Are you asking specifically about the knots on the Indy style bullwhips? Or on all whips in general?

I think Franco pretty much summed up the technical aspect of the knots and why they vary in size on different styles of whips. But even the knot size on the same style whips can vary to some extent. If you look at several David Morgan bullwhips for example, Even though the knots are approximately the same size, you see some small variations in the size (even the shape) of the knots from whip to whip with some being a bit larger, others being a bit smaller.

As already mentioned, Several things can cause that from thickness of the skin, to how much weight the maker feels the whip should have in the handle, to different whip makers making these whips based on how they think they should be; just to name a few. Typically though, those trying to reproduce the Indy whips close to that original design make the knot in close approximately to size of the originals. Yet no two hand made whips are ever really exactly the same when you get down to splitting hairs, not even by the same whip maker, let alone by a whole bunch of differnt whip makers working in different parts of the world.

You might notice smaller knots tend to be used higher performance whips, partly because whips tend to be lighter and faster, they don’t usually require the same amount of lead weighting that that the heavier Indy style bullwhips typically do. Also smaller knots tend to fit more comfortably in the hand, which makes them popular to whip crackers who prefer to grip the whip so the knot is resting in the palm and allowing for a sort of ball & socket connection. Rather then trying to grip a whip with a with a large obstructive knot that forcing you to grip the whip more awkwardly like a club.

Keep in mind too, the photo angle can play tricks on your eyes and make knots look bigger or smaller then it actually are. Also some whip makers just prefer to tie different style knot on their Indy bullwhips. For example in the first photo you posted, That was a Western Stage Props whip which at one time came standard with the 7 part, 6 bight Two Pass Turks head Knot which made for a neater, narrower and better fitted knot. It also gave the whip a clearer look and differentiated it from David Morgans bullwhips which feature a 5 part, 4 bight, three pass turkshead knot, a knot which by most standards is considered a more roughly tied, less attractive knot.

If you want measurements of the knot size on the original Indy / David Morgan bullwhips we could probably get them for you, The one listed on the diagram by the late Sergei in the Raiders Bullwhip write up on the main site is roughly accurate for most of the original Indy bullwhips, but I think the different knot sizes you see, mostly boils down to the fact that different whip makers do things differently, even when they are trying to reproduce the look of a specific type of whip, things vary. Sometimes its done intentionally, other times it’s not.

Dan

Thanks Dan and Franco


My only doubt now is buy a whip with a knot more correct for my hand sizes and preferences.




Best regards.

Gaucho.

Gaucho,
just take a cylinder about (or just under) one inch in diameter, and with whatever material you want (leather, paper, duct tape etc) build up a rough ball shape, or even just another cylinder, about an inch long, an see what size fits best in your hand. Make three of different sizes and test them one after the other to really feel the difference. Now this is just a rough estimate, but it will give you an idea. Next time you order a whip, talk to the whipmaker about this and maybe mention your preferences and see if it can be incorporated into the whip you are ordering...

Franco