My Hat is Alive?

[AZ Pete]

Hi all -

Excuse my ignorance on this subject. I am pretty new to fur felt hats. I have been seeing a lot of people mention in posts that the felt is alive. I am a little confused on this subject. What exactly does that mean?

Thanks!

Pete

[Mulceber]

Ok, first off, your hat is not actually alive - it's not going to get up and scamper off on you (but then, you probably knew that). When people talk about live felt they're referencing the process of the felt "dying."

Over time, the quality of your felt will change. When you first get it, it will taper if you wear it out too often in the rain. That's because the felt is still "alive" - it's still changing and reshaping itself. However, after a few years (aprx. 7), the hat "dies." It will no longer shrink or taper, but will remain pretty much the same. On the down side, however, it will no longer be as durable as it once was and there have been a couple nasty stories of people with very old hats which came apart like tissue paper when worn in the rain. In short, try not to abuse your dead felt too much. Steve could probably explain all this better though. -M

[binkmeisterRick]

I wouldn't say that "dead felt" hats will fall apart on you, unless it's a low quality hat to begin with. That's news to me as I've never heard such a story to my recollection and experience, and I say this as someone who owns a good number of vintage fedoras. Besides, Steve says his AB hats will outlast you, so there's no reason to think the hat won't still take a lickin' and keep on tickin' after it "dies."

But yes, the felt on a new hat will want to revert to its original conical shape at first, hence the taper. Beaver hats resist this much more than rabbit hats. Over time and reblocks, the felt gets set in its ways and will no longer revert to its conical roots. Rather, it will finally accept its given fedora shape, hence "dying."

[nicktheguy]

Sounds like a cool B-film though - a hat that lives on the head of its unsuspecting wearer....THE FATAL FEDORA of FRIGHT

[Fedora]

I actually got the "alive" term from Debbie Henderson's book, Hat Talk. She interviewed alot of the old timers that were involved in hatmaking way back. On one of those interviews, she was talking with an old timer who was talking about the difficulties of hatmaking, when he said that unlike other textiles, felt is actually alive. And this presented problems. Then he referred to the furs taking the dye consistantly, and one reason he hated the gov't contracts. When you get a contract from the gov't, back then, they specified the hats be identical in color, and this was a headache to the hat factories. And they would turn down such contracts, unless there was a war going on, and then by law, they had to honor them.

I always assumed that the fur's cells were still alive when the hatters started felting the cones. But, not sure if this is what he meant. I always wanted to know, though. Fedora

[Mulceber]

I wouldn't say that "dead felt" hats will fall apart on you, unless it's a low quality hat to begin with. That's news to me as I've never heard such a story to my recollection and experience, and I say this as someone who owns a good number of vintage fedoras.

We're talking about 50-60 year old rabbit hats being taken out into frog stranglers. In other words, this is an extreme case. I'm not saying that a dead felt hat will fall apart on you (especially not a beaver hat), but just that you have to be a gentler with it than you would with a newer hat. -M

[Fedora]

You can tell if the hat is really, really old by pouncing it. If you pounce it, and all you get is powder, that is a real old hat. But, once you get past the oxidized outer layer, you always hit good fur and it looks the same as a newer hat.

Age is good for felt, but only to a certain point. I would imagine any civil war era hats that were around would be pretty rotten, but I do not know this for sure. I am just assuming here. The oldest hat body I have seen was made in 1919. Bink, Michaelson and Renderking all own one. These were really old mercury bodies, and were still in excellent condition.

A certain hatter came across a whole boxcar of these bodies that were bought by a couple of investors a few years ago. This certain hatter bought up as many as he could afford, and I ended up with around 6 of them. He paid me for work I had done for him, with these bodies. I ended up giving these away to friends here, if I recall that correctly. I kept one for myself, but apparently gave it away as well. Or perhaps I have it in my storage building, not sure. If I recall correctly, this certain hatter made hats from these mercury bodies and sold them for a few grand each. Seems like he was getting 500 bucks each just for the bodies back when he had them. But, as you know, mercury bodies are indeed rare today. So, you were buying something that no longer was available.

PB also ran across some old mercury finished bodies in the PB basement a few years ago. He made hats from them, and Pyro, a member that used to be here bought one. He posted pics here of the hat. Think it cost him 1200 bucks, but not positive, but it was expensive. I wish I had a truck load of them! Old hats are practically taper proof hats, no matter how saturated you get them. And I figure this is because of the felt being dead, as there is no other explanation. But, this is my theory, and you won't find this mentioned anywhere in the hat books that exist today. It just makes good sense. Fedora

[Snapbrim76]

Next time I'm in town, I'll check out Lock & Co again as they not only invented the bowler hat in 1850, but also keep it in a cabinet along with lots of other ancient hats going back a few hundred years. They even have the hat worn by the Duke of Wellington at the battle of Waterloo 1815. I'll ask them how long fur felt lasts and what happens when it dies. They might have an answer with evidence to back it up.

[Michaelson]

Make sure you ask one of the old hat makers, though. A new person might think you're nuts and toss you out of the shop!

"Are our hats 'dead'? Of COURSE they're dead, you ninny!"



Regards! Michaelson

[binkmeisterRick]

Are you sure your hat is dead?

[DR Ulloa]

See, it says its not dead!
I feel happy!

Dave

[BendingOak]

Are you sure your hat is dead?

Where do you keep finding these images from and fast I might add as well.

[gwyddion]

Are you sure your hat is dead?

I want one!

Regards, Geert

[binkmeisterRick]

Where do you keep finding these images from and fast I might add as well.

Let's just say I know how to use a search function.

[BendingOak]

Where do you keep finding these images from and fast I might add as well.

Let's just say I know how to use a search function.

A lot better than me. I'm sending all my searches to you.

[Michaelson]

Me too, Oak!

Now bink, where DID I last set down my coffee cup this morning.....



Regards! Michaelson

[Snapbrim76]

Make sure you ask one of the old hat makers, though. A new person might think you're nuts and toss you out of the shop!

"Are our hats 'dead'? Of COURSE they're dead, you ninny!"



Regards! Michaelson

Don't worry, I've been going in there for years, they know me quite well.

[Michaelson]

That might work in your favor.

In my case, when I walk into a store where they know me, they either dive behind the counter or play dead....which in itself can be a bit awkward.



Regrds! Michaelson

[Snapbrim76]

What kind of stores are these?

I'll be honest, these shops are getting more and more like regular shops with fewer and fewer experts working there, seeing as NO alterations are done on the premises! All the world's specialists are disappearing in favour of the cheaper, more profitable option.

However, I'll keep trying until I speak to one of the older, more knowledgeable hatters is working.

[binkmeisterRick]

Now bink, where DID I last set down my coffee cup this morning.....



Regards! Michaelson

Do you really want to know, Michaelson?

[Michaelson]